AT&T Poised to Shatter Quarterly Smartphone Sales Record on iPhone 4S Surge

[kdarling]

Yay! Now AT&T's network can be even more overloaded!

Not unless the hand-me-downs get added on as new customers.

Otherwise, as they noted, and was also noted in the UK, most 4S sales are upgrades to current iPhone owners who had been waiting an extra long time for a new model.

So it's mostly the same customers involved.

 

[alent1234]

lol

that's the exact problem. you should be able to use a prepaid SIM/uSIM and pay per MB/GB/SMS/MMS/min and determine for yourself what is the cheaper option.

but you can't ... (maniacal laughter heard from AT&T board off stage)

all US carriers give you unlimited minutes on their networks and some give you unlimited calling to other mobile phones on other carriers with plan add ons. only people in the USA who use pre-paid are single people who text more than call

 

[AppleScruff1]

LOL at American mobile phone contracts lining AT&T's pockets.

$2000 / 2 years

And Apple may still be getting $10 per month of that as they did with the original iPhone contract with AT&T.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

The difference being - cell service in the US is a borderline government supported monopoly while Apple exist in a highly competitive computer market.

People pay the premium to Apple because they favor the computer over one from Dell, IBM, Alien, building yourself and the list goes on.

People pay this premium to AT&T because they have little other choices. You could argue prepaid on a MNVO but guess what - they use the big three networks and thus are bound by their terms (throttling data to make post paid more attractive etc).

You can't start a new carrier in the US because the FCC won't allow it. You can easily start a new computer company. The threat of entry is why Apple continues to innovate (and drive huge profits) while AT&T drags it's feet and can still pull record profits.

1) Even if they are legal monopolies their FCC licensed spectrum only grants them that -- use of the spectrum. They also had to pay handily for that spectrum.

2) Cell towers are not cheap or easy to install -- not just physically, but jumping the legal hoops even every somewhat populated county in the country.

3) You contradict yourself saying the FCC won't allow new carriers when you mention MNVOs. First it's not that the FCC won't allow it its that there isn't enough spectrum to support a completely new nationwide carrier. But conceivably you could buy some regional spectrum and start a regional carrier. And also how is a MNVO not a carrier? They main difference is they don't own or lease cell towers, they just buy spectrum.

4) Consumers are always looking for the next best thing. The Cellcos have to invest heavily in upgrading their network for the next generation. Maybe you'd have a point if they were charging $80 for 1G service, but they have to make money to be able to afford to go LTE.

 

[GorgonPhone]

and all these same folks will go get the iphone 5 too...lol

 

[samcraig]

FYI - Apple does not make $10 off ATT anymore per month.

However, ATT did tell me (more than one rep) that they do have an interesting agreement.

If you subsidize an iPhone with ATT (not sure about other US carriers) - APPLE will not let ATT early upgrade that user to any other phone until 2 years is up. Further - they will only allow an early upgrade (with the extra $200 charge) for an iPhone.

Meaning - if you get an iPhone - you are "stuck" for 2 years if you want any other phone. Maybe 12-18 months if you go to the next iPhone.

Of course you can always pay ETFs, etc...

 

[cvaldes]

I've never understood this argument. You have to pay a carrier to get service. So I don't see the problem with staying for two years and not having to pay the full price of the phone. It's not like I get a cheaper monthly rate if I pay full price for my phone.

lol

that's the exact problem. you should be able to use a prepaid SIM/uSIM and pay per MB/GB/SMS/MMS/min and determine for yourself what is the cheaper option.

but you can't ... (maniacal laughter heard from AT&T board off stage)

Nonsense. People have been using prepaid SIMs in unlocked iPhones starting with the very first model in 2007. The current handset (iPhone 4S) and the previous generation have been sold by Apple in the U.S. completely unlocked.

My AT&T GoPhone SIM works just fine in the unlocked iPhone 4S I picked up a few weeks ago. Prior to purchasing the handset, I did my cost analysis several times based on my projected usage. The prepaid SIM isn't a realistic alternative for everyone, however it works for me.

The difference between the subsidized handset and the unlocked version at full retail is $450, plus a one-time activation fee of about $30 for the contract phone. Therefore, $420 is the amount you need to save in mobile fees to break even.

The cheapest monthly iPhone plan from AT&T is $40 voice (450 min.) and $15 data (250MB). My projected monthly expenses with a GoPhone SIM are about $15 so my break-even point is month 11. If I keep the handset for two years, my total savings is $520. At the end, I have a factory-unlocked handset that commands a higher resale price in the used iPhone marketplace. Or I can just buy a newer model anytime I want and not worry about Early Termination Fees.

The key to my savings strategy is using Google Voice (I've been a subscriber when it was still Grand Central, before the Google acquisition). Most of my incoming calls ring my work phone. Free outgoing VoIP calls over WiFi can be placed using the Talkatone app (my WiFi connectivity is better both at home and work than cellular reception, so that's my preference anyhow). Texting is free with the Google Voice app.

I will reiterate that you must do your own analysis based on your cellular usage habits to figure out if a prepaid SIM is a viable option. It is defintely not a one-size-fits-all solution.

 

[alent1234]

FYI - Apple does not make $10 off ATT anymore per month.

However, ATT did tell me (more than one rep) that they do have an interesting agreement.

If you subsidize an iPhone with ATT (not sure about other US carriers) - APPLE will not let ATT early upgrade that user to any other phone until 2 years is up. Further - they will only allow an early upgrade (with the extra $200 charge) for an iPhone.

Meaning - if you get an iPhone - you are "stuck" for 2 years if you want any other phone. Maybe 12-18 months if you go to the next iPhone.

Of course you can always pay ETFs, etc...

so why did i get an early upgrade after 18 months when i had my 3GS?

i had a 3GS for 18 months. went to HTC. got an early upgrade after only 6 months with a HTC phone and bought a 4S

 

[Spectrum Abuser]

LOL at American mobile phone contracts lining AT&T's pockets.

$2000 / 2 years

Price it takes to have a national network. It's a lot cheaper to build out a network in Germany then in the United States.

 

[samcraig]

so why did i get an early upgrade after 18 months when i had my 3GS?

i had a 3GS for 18 months. went to HTC. got an early upgrade after only 6 months with a HTC phone and bought a 4S

Perhaps because it's a newer policy?

ETA: Also - ATT has no problem giving early upgrades from NON iPhones to iPhones (or other phones) in less than even 12 months.

 

[Diode]

1) Even if they are legal monopolies their FCC licensed spectrum only grants them that -- use of the spectrum. They also had to pay handily for that spectrum.

2) Cell towers are not cheap or easy to install -- not just physically, but jumping the legal hoops even every somewhat populated county in the country.

Exactly and this acts as a huge barrier of entry for competition.

3) You contradict yourself saying the FCC won't allow new carriers when you mention MNVOs. First it's not that the FCC won't allow it its that there isn't enough spectrum to support a completely new nationwide carrier. But conceivably you could buy some regional spectrum and start a regional carrier. And also how is a MNVO not a carrier? They main difference is they don't own or lease cell towers, they just buy spectrum.

MNVO's don't buy spectrum, they buy chucks of data, minutes, and texts from the carriers. Anyways my point with MNVO's is they are still bound by the terms of their parent carriers. It's been proven that AT&T limits data throughput for its MNVO's so they can't compete fairly. Also the other MNVO's for other carriers generally restrict which devices can go on their networks - a policy coming from Sprint / Verizon etc. They don't want customers jumping ship to the MNVO's.

4) Consumers are always looking for the next best thing. The Cellcos have to invest heavily in upgrading their network for the next generation. Maybe you'd have a point if they were charging $80 for 1G service, but they have to make money to be able to afford to go LTE.

True - however innovation still look place when AT&T was the only supplier of telephone service to the United states. AT&T just charged a arm and leg for long distance calls and didn't pass cost savings onto the consumer as they found cheaper ways to do things.

With cell service in the US so fragmented, it is nearly impossible for a consumer to switch service without buying a new device. This just means they can get away with charging more for less with little fear on customers jumping from one carrier to another.

I'm hoping LTE will change this - but as it stands now LTE phones for Verizon won't work on AT&T - until this changes we are stuck in the same boat.

 

[Vendrazi]

Not unless the hand-me-downs get added on as new customers.

Otherwise, as they noted, and was also noted in the UK, most 4S sales are upgrades to current iPhone owners who had been waiting an extra long time for a new model.

So it's mostly the same customers involved.

Unless, of course, all of those iPhone 4 phones get sold to finance the purchase of new iPhone 4s phones.

You have noticed that Apple's percentage of the market is staying pretty good, yes?

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If you subsidize an iPhone with ATT (not sure about other US carriers) - APPLE will not let ATT early upgrade that user to any other phone until 2 years is up. Further - they will only allow an early upgrade (with the extra $200 charge) for an iPhone.

When did they tell you this? I've gotten early upgrades with every iPhone.

 

[samcraig]

Unless, of course, all of those iPhone 4 phones get sold to finance the purchase of new iPhone 4s phones.

You have noticed that Apple's percentage of the market is staying pretty good, yes?

----------



When did they tell you this? I've gotten early upgrades with every iPhone.

They told me this in November. And upgrade to WHAT? Another iPhone? If so - that's correct. But they explicitly told me if I wanted to get an early upgrade to any OTHER phone (non-Apple) they couldn't give me a subsidy until 2 years has been completed.

 

[cvaldes]

MNVO's don't buy spectrum, they buy chucks of data, minutes, and texts from the carriers. Anyways my point with MNVO's is they are still bound by the terms of their parent carriers. It's been proven that AT&T limits data throughput for its MNVO's so they can't compete fairly. Also the other MNVO's for other carriers generally restrict which devices can go on their networks - a policy coming from Sprint / Verizon etc. They don't want customers jumping ship to the MNVO's.

Correct.

Straight Talk is an MVNO brand of TracFone which itself is an MVNO (the American arm of America Movil). Straight Talk has a relatively paltry selection of handsets; their terms and conditions forbid you from using a non-Straight Talk device with their service. A SIM-equipped Straight Talk handset uses the AT&T network.

If you search "Straight Talk SIM iPhone" on the Web, you just might come across a discussion about how to get $45/month unlimited talk/text/data service from Straight Talk running on an unlocked iPhone.

 

[aristotle]

LOL at American mobile phone contracts lining AT&T's pockets.

$2000 / 2 years

LOL at German man zinking dat smartphones can function without service or that service is free anywhere in the world if you don't sign a contract.


The reality of it is that you are not going to get a subsidized price for a smartphone without a contract anywhere and you are going to pay for cellular service one way or another. Some companies even offer retention/loyalty terms which are better than if you stayed month to month.

I'm not seeing where you are saving anything unless if you buy the phone outright as a factory unlocked iPhone directly from Apple and then only get a voice and texting plan. You are however, trading some savings for less convenience.

I'd rather pay less upfront and have a data plan. Here in Canada, I would not get a better deal on a data plan+voice+texting by going month to month than I would with a contract and I would end up paying "more" upfront. To save money, I'd have to get just a voice plan with or without texts and search for wifi hotspots.

 

[samcraig]

LOL at German man zinking dat smartphones can function without service or that service is free anywhere in the world if you don't sign a contract.


The reality of it is that you are not going to get a subsidized price for a smartphone without a contract anywhere and you are going to pay for cellular service one way or another. Some companies even offer retention/loyalty terms which are better than if you stayed month to month.

I'm not seeing where you are saving anything unless if you buy the phone outright as a factory unlocked iPhone directly from Apple and then only get a voice and texting plan. You are however, trading some savings for less convenience.

I'd rather pay less upfront and have a data plan. Here in Canada, I would not get a better deal on a data plan+voice+texting by going month to month than I would with a contract and I would end up paying "more" upfront. To save money, I'd have to get just a voice plan with or without texts and search for wifi hotspots.

And this is where, at least US carriers, glitch their customers. You MUST have a data plan with certain phones. Of course, we know why. But it's perfectly reasonable for someone to just want an iPhone (or smartphone) and use voice features only on the network but rely solely on WIFI for data. ATT/Verizon/Sprint won't let you.

 

[aristotle]

lol

that's the exact problem. you should be able to use a prepaid SIM/uSIM and pay per MB/GB/SMS/MMS/min and determine for yourself what is the cheaper option.

but you can't ... (maniacal laughter heard from AT&T board off stage)

You laugh at other people but you suggest that people pay per MB? Are you crazy? Not only would that be a nightmare keeping track of what data you need/have used so far but it would cost you a lot "more".

 

[chagla]

I've never understood this argument. You have to pay a carrier to get service. So I don't see the problem with staying for two years and not having to pay the full price of the phone. It's not like I get a cheaper monthly rate if I pay full price for my phone.

try tmobile postpaid. if you bring your own phone, their services are cheaper. when you buy subsidized phone same services will cost more.

now try any prepaid provider.

simple mobile - $40/month talk + text + web (no contract).
h2o - $40/month for talk + text (no contract)

so let's do the math. regardless of the phone, if you want to get unlimited talk + text from any US providers, you will be looking at a bill of around $65 to $75 a month WITH 2YR contract. Also notice I didn't include data service. If you include data, it will cost even more. When you add up two years of service, take a look.

prepaid (assuming 40/month) - $960 + $(whatever you want to spend on a phone)
post paid (ie - discounted phone, 65/month) - $1560 + $ cost of your discounted phone.

so as you can see, getting a $100 or even $200 discount looks great upfront but if you do the math for two years, see what's better.

 

[cvaldes]

You laugh at other people but you suggest that people pay per MB? Are you crazy? Not only would that be a nightmare keeping track of what data you need/have used so far but it would cost you a lot "more".

No, there's at least one certain situation where prepaid data is cheaper than a post-paid contract plan.

The cheapest data plan with a subsided, contract iPhone on AT&T is $15/month for 250MB of cellular data.

For the AT&T GoPhone, one purchases data packages available in three tiers: $5 for 10MB, $10 for 100MB, and $25 for 500MB. GoPhone data packages last thirty days, but if you buy another package before expiration (there's an auto refill option), your unused cellular data will roll over. Thus, you can buy 500MB for $25 one month, then top off with 10MB for $5 the following month, giving you 255MB per month for $15 (so you're getting five megs more per month).

If your monthly cellular data usage is between 100MB and 200MB, the GoPhone SIM is a viable alternative.

GoPhone Pay As You Go calls are ten cents a minute, so anyone who talks considerably less than 400 minutes per month should consider the prepaid option.

The GoPhone website tells you how much data you have left in your account and the expiration date. I think they will send you a message when your data drops low. Alternately, you can simply reset your cellular usage data when you purchase a new data package.

In my particular usage case, I will probably end up buying one 500MB data package ($25) and two 10MB data packages ($5 each) over the course of three months, giving me 173MB of data at $11.66/month. Add about thirty minutes of calls and my monthly outlay is $15. The real beauty of this system is the flexibility in getting more data one month and less in a subsequent month and still paying for everything you use.

GoPhone also has texting packages (e.g., 200 messages for $5, 30 day expiration), but it's cheaper for me just to use Google Voice over a data connection (WiFI or cellular data).

Sadly, the GoPhone SIM doesn't work in 3G-equipped iPads.

 

[DynaFXD]

I do agree that when you are done paying subsidies and/or bring your own phone, your bill should go down.

I agree as well. But they don't. I have come to the conclusion that you are leaving money on the table if you don't upgrade as soon as you can to the next model. All else being equal of course. I plan to stay with ATT and did not grab a 4S because I really want to see what the "5" offers. So ATT may get a few months of gravy out of me.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

FYI - Apple does not make $10 off ATT anymore per month.

However, ATT did tell me (more than one rep) that they do have an interesting agreement.

If you subsidize an iPhone with ATT (not sure about other US carriers) - APPLE will not let ATT early upgrade that user to any other phone until 2 years is up. Further - they will only allow an early upgrade (with the extra $200 charge) for an iPhone.

Meaning - if you get an iPhone - you are "stuck" for 2 years if you want any other phone. Maybe 12-18 months if you go to the next iPhone.

Of course you can always pay ETFs, etc...

The rep is a little wrong. They can still upgrade to another phone just it is a much bigger pain to do it and they try to avoid it. Using another line for an early upgrade they avoid doing it because it is a lot of extra work.

 

[AppleScruff1]

And Apple may still be getting $10 per month of that as they did with the original iPhone contract with AT&T.

Why the down votes? It's the truth. Apple got $10 per month from every iPhone contract from AT&T. So for a 2 year contract, Apple got $240 x every iPhone AT&T sold under contract. Read the Wired ebook about Steve. You'll be amazed.

 

[samcraig]

Why the down votes? It's the truth. Apple got $10 per month from every iPhone contract from AT&T. So for a 2 year contract, Apple got $240 x every iPhone AT&T sold under contract. Read the Wired ebook about Steve. You'll be amazed.

It's true of the original iPhone. Not sure if that went beyond that. But I know it's not current now.

----------

The rep is a little wrong. They can still upgrade to another phone just it is a much bigger pain to do it and they try to avoid it. Using another line for an early upgrade they avoid doing it because it is a lot of extra work.

Was 3 different reps. And I'm not the one to argue more than stating my case and justifications. I tried 3 different times to assess whether it was policy or whether it just took the right rep to make it happen. I'm not saying it's "canon" - just stating what was told to me almost verbatim by 2 of the three people. The other one just said they couldn't do it.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

Was 3 different reps. And I'm not the one to argue more than stating my case and justifications. I tried 3 different times to assess whether it was policy or whether it just took the right rep to make it happen. I'm not saying it's "canon" - just stating what was told to me almost verbatim by 2 of the three people. The other one just said they couldn't do it.

trick is pressing the issue.
It mostly only when you want to switch upgrade to other lines.

I know it is false because my brother on an iPhone contract had no issue upgrade to a Galaxy S2 20 months into his 2 year contract. This is on AT&T.

 

[iScott428]

AT&T's network is really garbage for voice calls, data transfer rate is excellent though in my area (when service is available.) Also my 4S is superior is keeping signal and strength thanks to the genius behind the dual antennas. Not surprised they are going to sell record amounts, as its hands down the most complete cell PHONE ever made. Every iPhone has been great for entertainment and all of the other uses for the 500,000 apps, but the 4S really improved my Phone experience. To me that was/is huge, just darn them for not releasing the 5! I really dislike the shape, weight, and over all feel of the dual glass setup, naturally compared to the tapered original metal back and even plastic designs.