Personally I think they should have given Apple more time to address the issue, and the one suit regarding the companies selling too many phones may be a little bit ridiculous from some people's standpoints (including mine), but I'm just curious, why do you think they should be thrown out? Is it simply bad timing? If so, I can see your point. However, if in 4 months from now we all still have the same shoddy 3G service and people in the advertised AT&T coverage areas are still receving no signal, I can't see anything but a class action suit justifiable. Being that they're class actions, it's all about setting parameters for these companies - sometimes they have to be treated like children and need to be explicitly told what they can and can't do...I just can't understand how ANYBODY could possibly think that they shouldn't be penalized whatsoever if things aren't fixed. After all, we all signed a contract which WE all have to live up to (and we're heavily penalized if we don't) - that contract involves 2 parties and the same standards apply to them.
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AT&T telling those unhappy with 3G service to break contract and get first gen iPhone
- Thread starter greenlander
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Personally I think they should have given Apple more time to address the issue, and the one suit regarding the companies selling too many phones may be a little bit ridiculous from some people's standpoints (including mine), but I'm just curious, why do you think they should be thrown out? Is it simply bad timing? If so, I can see your point. However, if in 4 months from now we all still have the same shoddy 3G service and people in the advertised AT&T coverage areas are still receving no signal, I can't see anything but a class action suit justifiable. Being that they're class actions, it's all about setting parameters for these companies - sometimes they have to be treated like children and need to be explicitly told what they can and can't do...I just can't understand how ANYBODY could possibly think that they shouldn't be penalized whatsoever if things aren't fixed. After all, we all signed a contract which WE all have to live up to (and we're heavily penalized if we don't) - that contract involves 2 parties and the same standards apply to them.
I think this is why most of us keep it even if the 3g areas aren't that widespread yet.
I myself haven't had issues with 3G, but have noticed different areas have different speeds. Vegas 3G was ridiculously slow compared to what I'm used to in Los Angeles.
Well I am paying for usability
And that means not dropping my calls when I make them
It means actually being able to have data service and signal.
Tell me where you live cause I am going to come knock out all the 3G towers in your area so you can feel my pain for a while
I've actually answered this one in the other threads on the lawsuits but I will sum it up here for ease.
1. It is a timing issue, but it's a timing issue on at least a couple of different areas.
A) I would suggest that the 3G issue with regards to calls dropping and data speeds haven't for the majority of people gotten worse. They are the same or better than when they purchased the iPhone 3G. There are a very, very small percentage that may have ended up with worse problems with worse network issues following the 2.0.1 and 2.0.2 updates but I would estimate that number is less than 0.5% (and that is probably high and not network related and could probably be fixed by getting a replacement iPhone from Apple under the warranty).
If this is true, than the people suing had 30 days following their purchase in which to return their iPhone because of the network quality issues and not incur an ETF while also being able return the equipment. If they chose to not do this, they have implicitly accepted the crappy network and would have no standing to sue.
B) As you point out, I likewise agree that it is too early in the process and not enough time has passed for AT&T or Apple to address these issues with an update. I know many won't like to hear that, but it's just my opinion so don't go flaming me for it.
2. Everyone needs to read the contract they signed with AT&T. The TOS (part of the contract that subscribers sign) call for binding arbitration rather than court. Additionally, the TOS specifically state that the parties agree that class action suits are not permitted.
3. Apples software licensing agreement specifically limits Apples liability.
4. Apples hardware warranty also limits Apples liability.
I discussed items 2, 3 and 4 in one of my prior posts and you can actually read AT&T's TOS, the Apple Software License Agreement and Hardware warranty here.
IANAL, so whether any of that would be upheld in court I have no idea but I can tell you that given all 4 of the above, it becomes the burden of the plaintiff to prove that these particular items should be disregarded. I just don't think we are too that point yet.
At the end of the day what will matter most is whether Apple and AT&T fix the issues. If you know anything about the US legal system, you know that it will take at least a year before class certification (assuming that the cases don't get tossed) and then you are looking at no less than 3 years before it goes to trial.
That does not mean the issues go away or that if Apple releases 5 new models of iPhones between now and then that the case becomes moot, it doesn't. But if in the next 3 - 4 months Apple and AT&T fixe everything and make it peachy, a court is probably not going to let these cases go very far. I am not saying it would be okay for it to take 3 - 4 months to fix or that I think it will take that long, just that I think a court is going to say the issue is moot if it is fixed in that amount of time.
But again, IANAL and YMMV. Don't flame a guy for his opinions.
Thank you. At least no one can say I haven't thought it through and constructed a well-reasoned argument.
Just because YOU do not have problems does not mean that others aren't experiencing problems...
think about that
Its the only reason I dont have an iphone, I cannot stand huge corporations like these they could care less about consumers. I have a blackberry with my local cell phone company, and when Apple opens their product up to the market I will buy one.
What is ridiculous is the fact that you have to pay 3G prices even if you don't live in a 3G area. How about letting people choose which service they won't to use as most people don't even need 3G. The only real advantage 3G would have for me is the fact that you can receive calls while using the Internet but I would gladly give that up to save $15 a month. Or better yet how about offering only a phone plan because some people don't need a constant connection as wi-fi would be fine. I guess they know if they offered this no one would be getting 3G so they have to force it on people.
How many times does it have to be said that you are NOT paying 3G prices. The the cost for data on a smartphone has been $30.00 for at least a couple of years regardless of whether the phone has 3G or not or whether you live in 3G coverage. Buy a blackberry (no 3G blackberrys are sold by AT&T) and guess what, you pay $30.00/month +. The only exception to this was the 1st gen iPhone that had a $20.00 a month data plan due to an agreement between Apple and AT&T. The $30.00 pricing is now in line with all other smartphone data plans (except the 1st gen iPhone).
Well they should have never offered the $20 plan in the first place then if they didn't like it and not every one needs a dedicated data connection so why don't they offer the iPhone without any data? I just want a phone with wi-fi which is why I still don't have a iPhone. Now if I could tether without paying extra then 3G would be worth it but without that it's just a waste for me. I mean this is a consumer geared phone but I guess grandma needs to be able to access YouTube at any moment.
This is exactly what I told my friend when he asked if I was upset that I would be "paying" for 3G when it's not offered where I live.
Now if AT&T offered an EDGE and a 3G plan but required the 3G plan for the iPhone 3G regardless of location, then there would be a problem.
But for now it's nice being shielded from these 3G problems. It'll be great once everything is sorted out and I don't have to deal with the issues when I visit home in Columbus.
Why don't they offer it without the data plan? Because they can.
Longer answer is that they are selling a lot of them with the data plan and that makes a lot more money, so why offer something that makes less money?
That's complete BS.
My Nokia N75 works just fine on AT&T's 3G network.
Full bars everywhere.
Damn iPhone sucks in the exact same locations where my N75 works perfectly.
AT&T ain't great, but Apple owns this one. They screwed up.
And, yet, my Moto Q9h lost its ability to work "pretty" well on the 3G network sometime around July 12-13. It used to work great before then, except when it crashed or dropped calls.
yeah so as I said in another thread about 3g issues in NY....
I called AT&T and they said a 3 different towers were down in my area and gave me a 10 dollar credit per month per iphone on my family plan until the towers are restored to full working order.
The 10 dollars were described(by the AT&T resolution specialist)as the difference between the old data plan and the new 3g data plan. Since the new phone is advertised as '3g iPhone' and 3g is inoperable then they just treat it like a 1st gen iPhone until it's fixed. Have to call each month to check up on it and to get your credit for the month though.
BTW, they knew how much of my data was through 3g, EDGE, and regular old cell network. They have no records about wi-fi usage though, since they are not involved with that. So they can tell if you[try to] use 3g alot or not. So you have to actually have the 3g issue to get the credit.
I called AT&T and they said a 3 different towers were down in my area and gave me a 10 dollar credit per month per iphone on my family plan until the towers are restored to full working order.
The 10 dollars were described(by the AT&T resolution specialist)as the difference between the old data plan and the new 3g data plan. Since the new phone is advertised as '3g iPhone' and 3g is inoperable then they just treat it like a 1st gen iPhone until it's fixed. Have to call each month to check up on it and to get your credit for the month though.
BTW, they knew how much of my data was through 3g, EDGE, and regular old cell network. They have no records about wi-fi usage though, since they are not involved with that. So they can tell if you[try to] use 3g alot or not. So you have to actually have the 3g issue to get the credit.