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I'm confused. Does the below mean if we have a plan through work (not corporate device but corporate FAN), we can still get a 2 year contract?

"IRU customers also may purchase a new smartphone on a two-year agreement contract via the Premier Web Site."
 
I've been with AT&T forever and I have the unlimited data plan. Problem is, AT&T is terrible in my area and I think I'm ready to give up my UDP to switch to Verizon. I'm in contract til Sept. 2016 but thought I'd take advantage of the no ETF when they raise the price of my UDP. Can I get my iPhone 6 Plus unlocked and take it to Verizon? I will want an iPhone 7 with Verizon upon release.
 
I'm confused. Does the below mean if we have a plan through work (not corporate device but corporate FAN), we can still get a 2 year contract?

"IRU customers also may purchase a new smartphone on a two-year agreement contract via the Premier Web Site."

That's what the rep claimed, but it contradicts the FAQ in the OP which states "Custom IRU and CRU customers are eligible," which seems to rule out regular IRU customers.

It'd be nice to get an official confirmation on this because right now it's not clear what the situation is. at&t reps can't even provide a basic definition of what constitutes "Custom IRU".
 
I'm completely confused. I recently decided not to upgrade to the iPhone 6s since my iPhone 5 had been replaced with a new one. Everything fresh and I really didn't feel a need to upgrade.

So I'm still grandfathered in but my 2 year contract was over some time ago. Paying $85/mo using an iPhone 5 that's out of contract. I have unlimited data 350 rollover voice, and 200 text messages. The mostly goes up to $90 in Feb.

I don't have a burning desire to upgrade to an iPhone 6s... was just going to wait for the 7, but since it's the 4th and I could technically run to an ATT store to get in on a new subsidized 6s and new 2yr contract before Jan 8th... is that what I should do?

I checked my average data usage and I was better off keeping the unlimited data.

Yes, if you plan to stick with your old, grandfathered unlimited plan, it is in your best interest to upgrade now to the 6S and get the $450 subsidy before it goes away in 4 days. Otherwise you will be paying full price for your phone along with paying exactly what you pay monthly now (+$5 increase after Feb). Take advantage of that subsidy!

All this time you haven't upgraded since iPhone 5 contract ran out, you've been paying extra for that subsidy you haven't used.
 
You're bad at math.
You're a presumptuous ---

of course there's a bit more to the story that doesn't need to be shared on a public forum. Doesn't change the outcome: Still not worth it financially to me. Even if there WASN'T more to my personal take on it, still wouldn't be worth it. How do you compensate for NINE HUNDRED DOLLARS WORTH of free phone subsidizing over 24 months on the new Verizon plans? How about instead of offering zero insight as to WHY you *think* someone is wrong, you do some of the math and show them instead of just being a troll.
 
Yes, if you plan to stick with your old, grandfathered unlimited plan, it is in your best interest to upgrade now to the 6S and get the $450 subsidy before it goes away in 4 days. Otherwise you will be paying full price for your phone along with paying exactly what you pay monthly now (+$5 increase after Feb). Take advantage of that subsidy!

All this time you haven't upgraded since iPhone 5 contract ran out, you've been paying extra for that subsidy you haven't used.


You see... I just don't get this. How is it that I'm paying for a subsidy still? When I went to look at different plans, the 5GB plan still came out to more than what I'm paying now for my old unlimited plan. If there's subsidy builtin to my monthly, why wouldn't that subsidy go away with a new plan without getting a new phone? It seems they're going to charge me the same monthly whether I get a new phone or not.

I'm wondering if I'd be better off to just keep my iPhone 5 that works perfectly well, and just switch to T-Mobile while providing my own phone?
 
You see... I just don't get this. How is it that I'm paying for a subsidy still? When I went to look at different plans, the 5GB plan still came out to more than what I'm paying now for my old unlimited plan. If there's subsidy builtin to my monthly, why wouldn't that subsidy go away with a new plan without getting a new phone? It seems they're going to charge me the same monthly whether I get a new phone or not.

I'm wondering if I'd be better off to just keep my iPhone 5 that works perfectly well, and just switch to T-Mobile while providing my own phone?

Old grandfathered plans had the subsidy built-into the cost per month. That's why you signed a contract every 2 years with them and got an iPhone for $199 instead of $649. Effectively, $18.75 of the monthly payment was for your phone since you got $450 divided by 24 months of the contract. With the old-grandfathered plans, your monthly payment DOES NOT go down after finishing the 24 months contract. Thus, you should absolutely upgrade to another phone the day after that 24 months runs out because your monthly bill doesn't go down and you are still paying $18.75 (essentially) per month for a phone that you haven't upgraded to yet, or another way to look at it is for a phone you've already paid off in the case of your iPhone 5.

Now, the new Mobile Share Value plans are structured so that you pay the full cost of the phone yourself ($649) either all up front or monthly on Next until it is paid off and your bill is cheaper because of it. For people who signed 2-year contracts on MSV plans, their monthly "smartphone access fee" was $40 per month and goes down to either $15/$25 per month after the contract is over. This has nothing at all to do with OLD GRANDFATHERED plans. Totally separate way you have to look at it.
 
You see... I just don't get this. How is it that I'm paying for a subsidy still? When I went to look at different plans, the 5GB plan still came out to more than what I'm paying now for my old unlimited plan. If there's subsidy builtin to my monthly, why wouldn't that subsidy go away with a new plan without getting a new phone? It seems they're going to charge me the same monthly whether I get a new phone or not.

That's how the carriers' subsidy model has worked for years. Carriers continue to collect the "baked in" costs designed to recoup the subsidy whether or not you renew at the 2-year mark. That's also why financially-savvy members who don't want to replace their current iPhone renew anyway at the 2-year mark and sell the latest iPhone model to recover the built-in costs in the monthly bills.

If you don't believe this, just wait until you try to get a new iPhone after January 8th while still keeping unlimited and you'll find that it's $450 more expensive for you.
 
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Old grandfathered plans had the subsidy built-into the cost per month. That's why you signed a contract every 2 years with them and got an iPhone for $199 instead of $649. Effectively, $18.75 of the monthly payment was for your phone since you got $450 divided by 24 months of the contract. With the old-grandfathered plans, your monthly payment DOES NOT go down after finishing the 24 months contract. Thus, you should absolutely upgrade to another phone the day after that 24 months runs out because your monthly bill doesn't go down and you are still paying $18.75 (essentially) per month for a phone that you haven't upgraded to yet, or another way to look at it is for a phone you've already paid off in the case of your iPhone 5.

Now, the new Mobile Share Value plans are structured so that you pay the full cost of the phone yourself ($649) either all up front or monthly on Next until it is paid off and your bill is cheaper because of it. For people who signed 2-year contracts on MSV plans, their monthly "smartphone access fee" was $40 per month and goes down to either $15/$25 per month after the contract is over. This has nothing at all to do with OLD GRANDFATHERED plans. Totally separate way you have to look at it.

Thanks for the explanation. So, if I'm fine with my iPhone 5 and don't want to buy another phone right now... but also want to have unlimited data for no more than I'm paying right now $85/mo... what should I do? It seems I'm basically being forced to drop my grandfathered unlimited data plan if I don't want to keep paying the original subsidy-laden monthly fees.

If I don't mind using an iphone 5, but want to have unlimited data (I averaged about 6GB a month), wouldn't I be better off having my iPhone 5 unlocked (I'm told by ATT that they'll unlock any phone with a simple email request after the 2year commitment is complete) and use the unlocked iPhone 5 on an unlimited data plan with T-Mobile or another competitor that still have unlimited data?
 
That's how the carriers' subsidy model has worked for years. Carriers continue to collect the "baked in" costs designed to recoup the subsidy whether or not you renew at the 2-year mark. That's also why financially-saavy members who don't want to replace their current iPhone renew anyway at the 2-year mark and sell the latest iPhone model to recover the built-in costs in the monthly bills.

If you don't believe this, just wait until you try to get a new iPhone after January 8th while still keeping unlimited and you'll find that it's $450 more expensive for you.


Thanks for the info. Now that I realize that I've been getting hosed and am obviously NOT a "savvy member", etc. Should I stick with ATT (which I absolutely hate at the moment for issues with Uverse as well) by trying to get one last iPhone 6s subsidy before they aren't offering them anymore? Even if I don't really care for or need an iPhone 6s? (personally, I don't like the larger size iPhones. I thought the 5 was the perfect size)

Or, would I be better off unlocking my iPhone 5 and changing providers?
 
Thanks for the explanation. So, if I'm fine with my iPhone 5 and don't want to buy another phone right now... but also want to have unlimited data for no more than I'm paying right now $85/mo... what should I do? It seems I'm basically being forced to drop my grandfathered unlimited data plan if I don't want to keep paying the original subsidy-laden monthly fees.

You'll still pay $85/mo whether or not you renew your 2-year contract (before January 8th). The only way to "recover" the built-in subsidy cost is to renew at the 2-year mark and sell the new iPhone model while you keep using the iPhone 5.

However, the old unlimited plan isn't necessarily more expensive than the alternatives even with the built-in subsidy cost and the upcoming $5 increase. It'll depend how many lines you have and your data usage. If the alternatives are more expensive, you should renew before January 8th and get the subsidized iPhone 6s.
 
You'll still pay $85/mo whether or not you renew your 2-year contract (before January 8th). The only way to "recover" the built-in subsidy cost is to renew at the 2-year mark and sell the new iPhone model while you keep using the iPhone 5.

However, the old unlimited plan isn't necessarily more expensive than the alternatives even with the built-in subsidy cost and the upcoming $5 increase. It'll depend how many lines you have and your data usage. If the alternatives are more expensive, you should renew before January 8th and get the subsidized iPhone 6s.

I'm using anywhere from 3-6GB a month. For one period I checked I used 20GB in 3mos. I don't want to have to worry that I might go over, so I'd like to keep an unlimited plan. But I don't want to fork over $500 for in iPhone 6s 128GB that I don't really need or want.

From what I'm reading... it sounds like my current "old unlimited plan" that has ongoing subsidy pricing built-in, is about the same as the new plans without subsidy built in.

I don't understand why, if I've already basically own and have paid retail (and then some) for this iPhone 5, and can have it unlocked.... why can't I get a better plan price on just using the voice/service/data?

It all looks like they have a number in mind that they want customers paying regardless of how they think they've got their plan structured.

I see how it would have been better to upgrade every 2 years, but I didn't. So, now what?

This has me so angry at this point, I'm starting to wonder what it'd be like to just go back to a dumb phone with some texting and just use my wifi iPad when I need mobile access and can find a hotspot.
 
How did you upgrade early if your contract ends in November 2016? You didn't have to pay a fee?
No, I didn't have to. I called up retentions at ATT (611) and asked them if I could upgrade early and keep the 2 yr contract. It took 4 tries, but successful.
 
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I don't see how if someone is buying the phone outright and not on contract. I thought all phones bought outright were unlocked anyway.

As I said, they bought an iPhone at full price, and they are beating around the bush about the unlocking. They paid FULL PRICE for the iPhone, and it *should* be unlocked, but it's NOT and everyone that they talk to at AT&T seems to have their head up their butts and don't know even IF that iPhone can be unlocked for some bizarre and largely unknown reason...
 
I'm using anywhere from 3-6GB a month. For one period I checked I used 20GB in 3mos. I don't want to have to worry that I might go over, so I'd like to keep an unlimited plan. But I don't want to fork over $500 for in iPhone 6s 128GB that I don't really need or want.

From what I'm reading... it sounds like my current "old unlimited plan" that has ongoing subsidy pricing built-in, is about the same as the new plans without subsidy built in.

I don't understand why, if I've already basically own and have paid retail (and then some) for this iPhone 5, and can have it unlocked.... why can't I get a better plan price on just using the voice/service/data?

It all looks like they have a number in mind that they want customers paying regardless of how they think they've got their plan structured.

I see how it would have been better to upgrade every 2 years, but I didn't. So, now what?

This has me so angry at this point, I'm starting to wonder what it'd be like to just go back to a dumb phone with some texting and just use my wifi iPad when I need mobile access and can find a hotspot.


If you are going to keep your Grandfathered Unlimited Data plan for the foreseeable future....then go sign a 2-year contract and get the base model iPhone (most cost effective for you) at $199 and then sell it online to someone and recoup some or all of the $450 subsidy + upfront cost of $199 and stick it away for when you want to get an iPhone 7.

You don't make enough money back when re-selling by spending the extra $100-200 for higher storage capacities. Just buy the base model and sell it brand new in the box and get back some of that subsidy money that is going away after Jan 8th!

EDIT: Also, the newer MSV plans that do lower your cost monthly if you're off-contract are not "better deals" for most people on single-line plans. Therefore when you compare what you have now to what is available now, you find that the cost is about the same or more than you are paying now. That's just the way it is now and you can't really compare to a plan from 2007.

The one sure-fire way to reduce your monthly cost, especially if you are going to keep an older phone for many years (like your iPhone 5) would be to switch to Cricket pre-paid. It uses the AT&T network that you're used to, but it's far cheaper and then you can just buy your iPhone's outright as often as you'd like (keeping your old phone for longer).
 
You did pay for your new phones via the hidden "subsidy" fee (in addition to the initial $199 or whatever). How is this "savings"? The only difference to Next is that you don't know how much you really paid for the phones, since the hidden fee for the "subsidy" is not shown separately on your bill.
This has to be the most illogical sentence in this already confused thread. Just in case you really don't understand this: with Next you can keep the phone and sell it too.
How hard is this to understand. The "hidden" subsidy fee was a better deal.

The subsidy fee was 93.75 a month for me. Calculated as $450 per line * 5 lines / 24 months. Because I was actually getting new iPhones every 2 years, I was taking advantage of this "fee." My total cost was 250 per month but out of that 156.25 was for service while 93.75 was for subsidy.

On Mobile Share I would get 5 lines with 15GB of Data for $175.

So $156.25 vs $175 for service. Oh look, old plan with hidden subsidy was still $20 cheaper than Mobile Share and with more data (2 unlimited lines).

If you are going to keep your Grandfathered Unlimited Data plan for the foreseeable future....then go sign a 2-year contract and get the base model iPhone (most cost effective for you) at $199 and then sell it online to someone and recoup some or all of the $450 subsidy + upfront cost of $199 and stick it away for when you want to get an iPhone 7.

You don't make enough money back when re-selling by spending the extra $100-200 for higher storage capacities. Just buy the base model and sell it brand new in the box and get back some of that subsidy money that is going away after Jan 8th!
This has typically been true however in my personal exp with the iPhone 6, people really do not like the 16GB storage space. So I would recommend buying the 64GB models.
 
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You're a presumptuous ---

of course there's a bit more to the story that doesn't need to be shared on a public forum. Doesn't change the outcome: Still not worth it financially to me. Even if there WASN'T more to my personal take on it, still wouldn't be worth it. How do you compensate for NINE HUNDRED DOLLARS WORTH of free phone subsidizing over 24 months on the new Verizon plans? How about instead of offering zero insight as to WHY you *think* someone is wrong, you do some of the math and show them instead of just being a troll.

I've done the math many times on these forums. But just as a clue, there never was, nor is there now any such thing as "free subsidizing." The carriers have always built the price of the "subsidization" into the monthly cost of your service. As is proven by the fact that Verizon will now lower your monthly access fee by $25 if your phone is off contract, or you buy your phone through Apple instead of them.

If you do a simple calculation of that $25 times 24 months ($600) plus the $200 they charge for down payment on a 64GB iPhone you will see that the $800 you pay for a $750 phone is more than the $750 you would pay for it by financing the full price phone through Verizon ($31.24 per month).

And I will make you this deal: If you apologize immediately for the personal name calling attack and for calling me a troll, I won't turn you into the mods for violation of forum rules.
 
How hard is this to understand. The "hidden" subsidy fee was a better deal.
It is well possible that it was a better deal in your specific case. But it isn't for everyone, as you seemed to claim, and it wasn't in my case.
The subsidy fee was 93.75 a month for me. Calculated as $450 per line * 5 lines / 24 months. Because I was actually getting new iPhones every 2 years, I was taking advantage of this "fee." My total cost was 250 per month but out of that 156.25 was for service while 93.75 was for subsidy.
Actually, you don't know what you really paid for the service and the subsidy, because it was all lumped together in your bill. You're just doing a theoretical calculation based on the retail price of the phone and the assumption that AT&T charged exactly that price, which may or may not be true. It's just as well possible that you really paid, say, $125 for the service and $125 for the phones, in which case you'd have obviously overpaid for the phones. Or perhaps you paid $80 for the phones and $170 for the service, in which case it would have been a good deal for the phones. It's just completely non-transparent for you.
 
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It is well possible that it was a better deal in your specific case. But it isn't for everyone, as you seemed to claim, and it wasn't in my case.


Actually, you don't know what you really paid for the service and the subsidy, because it was all lumped together in your bill. You're just doing a theoretical calculation based on the retail price of the phone, which may or may not match AT&T internal calculations. It's just as well possible that you really paid, say, $125 for the service and $125 for the phone, in which case you'd have obviously overpaid for the phone.
Then post up your numbers. Considering it's taken me this long to explain to you basic subsidy math, I really do not believe you did the calculation correct. I think you bought into marketing hype, got hustled and are now making excuses to be scammed.

Furthermore AT&T is reporting YOY revenue growth. They are getting more and more profitable, hmm I wonder how? Oh ya by charging people more for the same service.

Lastly yes I can calculate the effect of the subsidy for myself as I did. AT&T's internal calculations effect AT&T's bottom line, not mine. So they are irrelevant. However if I was to estimate them, they would be ridiculous. With a subsidy AT&T pays Apple $450 in straight cash. Without a subsidy, in my case, AT&T reduced prices by only 89% of the subsidy. So they were pocketing that extra 11%. And that money was now going to pay service which is much cheaper for them to provide vs. the actual payment of $450 to Apple.
 
How hard is this to understand. The "hidden" subsidy fee was a better deal.

The subsidy fee was 93.75 a month for me. Calculated as $450 per line * 5 lines / 24 months. Because I was actually getting new iPhones every 2 years, I was taking advantage of this "fee." My total cost was 250 per month but out of that 156.25 was for service while 93.75 was for subsidy.

On Mobile Share I would get 5 lines with 15GB of Data for $175.

So $156.25 vs $175 for service. Oh look, old plan with hidden subsidy was still $20 cheaper than Mobile Share and with more data (2 unlimited lines).

Does your calculation of $93.75 include the $200 per phone (for a 64GB) that you have to pay up front?
 
Does your calculation of $93.75 include the $200 per phone (for a 64GB) that you have to pay up front?
No because I could sell old iPhone for 200 on craigslist to pay for the new iPhone's downpayment.

Technically I didn't factor in the upgrade fee (which AT&T kept rising every year) but it's kinda a moot point because even so, the old plan would be cheaper.
 
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I've done the math many times on these forums. But just as a clue, there never was, nor is there now any such thing as "free subsidizing." The carriers have always built the price of the "subsidization" into the monthly cost of your service. As is proven by the fact that Verizon will now lower your monthly access fee by $25 if your phone is off contract, or you buy your phone through Apple instead of them.

If you do a simple calculation of that $25 times 24 months ($600) plus the $200 they charge for down payment on a 64GB iPhone you will see that the $800 you pay for a $750 phone is more than the $750 you would pay for it by financing the full price phone through Verizon ($31.24 per month).

And I will make you this deal: If you apologize immediately for the personal name calling attack and for calling me a troll, I won't turn you into the mods for violation of forum rules.

What $200 down payment for a 64 GB iPhone? I've never put money down on a phone.... Plus, my post says that my bill would not fall by more than $12-16 per month. So I don't even know where the $25/mo. reduction in bill comes from... that's not how much MY bill goes down under the new, no contract plans. Multiple people have voiced that the contracts and subsidizing of the phones is a better deal than going "off contract". If it wasn't -- do you really think (presumably) VZW (et al.) would be doing away with contracts? They got tired of making money? Decided to give a little back?

I understand what subsidizing means and that the cost of the subsidy has been traditionally part of the monthly bill, just not itemized as such. That only matters if we're recouping the FULL difference in bill price between subsidizing and not. ...and depending on your contract, not all of us are.

You've proven nothing except your first reply to me was, in fact, a trolling response adding zero value to the discussion. In fact, scrolling back through the thread, it wasn't the first time you were called out as such in that very thread.

NOW, you're going to blackmail me and threaten to tattle on me to the mods because you can't emotionally handle being referred to in the same company as what the collective internet would call a troll by some strangers on a forum?(twice in one thread --as if you might actually have been trolling!?) That's laughable. What are you, 6 years old?

Do it...

stay classy
 
Then post up your numbers. Considering it's taken me this long to explain to you basic subsidy math,
So far your "explanations" have been full of false assumptions.
Furthermore AT&T is reporting YOY revenue growth. They are getting more and more profitable, hmm I wonder how? Oh ya by charging people more for the same service.
I bet you didn't even look up the numbers. Apart from the fact that revenue growth alone says nothing about profitability, AT&T's profit margin is actually down over the last 3 years (though that has little to do with plan pricing).
Lastly yes I can calculate the effect of the subsidy for myself as I did. AT&T's internal calculations effect AT&T's bottom line, not mine. So they are irrelevant. However if I was to estimate them, they would be ridiculous. With a subsidy AT&T pays Apple $450 in straight cash. Without a subsidy, in my case, AT&T reduced prices by only 89% of the subsidy.
At least you now recognize that this is just your specific case.
 
No because I could sell old iPhone for 200 on craigslist to pay for the new iPhone's downpayment.

Technically I didn't factor in the upgrade fee (which AT&T kept rising every year) but it's kinda a moot point because even so, the old plan would be cheaper.

It's still a cost out of your pocket, and you can sell the phone that you pay over the term without "subsidies" too. If you're going to compare apples to apples on non-"subsidized" versus buying the phone outright (and financing it) you have to calculate all of your costs.
 
You'll still pay $85/mo whether or not you renew your 2-year contract (before January 8th). The only way to "recover" the built-in subsidy cost is to renew at the 2-year mark and sell the new iPhone model while you keep using the iPhone 5.

However, the old unlimited plan isn't necessarily more expensive than the alternatives even with the built-in subsidy cost and the upcoming $5 increase. It'll depend how many lines you have and your data usage. If the alternatives are more expensive, you should renew before January 8th and get the subsidized iPhone 6s.

I'm using anywhere from 3-6GB a month. For one period I checked I used 20GB in 3mos. I don't want to have to worry that I might go over, so I'd like to keep an unlimited plan. But I don't want to fork over $500 for in iPhone 6s 128GB that I don't really need or want.

From what I'm reading... it sounds like my current "old unlimited plan" that has ongoing subsidy pricing built-in, is about the same as the new plans without subsidy built in.

I don't understand why, if I've already basically own and have paid retail (and then some) for this iPhone 5, and can have it unlocked.... why can't I get a better mostly price on just using the service/data?

It all looks like they have a number in mind that they want customers paying regardless of how they think they've got their plan structured.

I see how it would have been better to upgrade every 2 years, but I didn't. So, now what?

This has me so angry at this point, I'm starting to wonder what it'd be like to just go back to a dumb phone with some texting and just use my wifi iPad when I need mobile access and can find a hotspot.
If you are going to keep your Grandfathered Unlimited Data plan for the foreseeable future....then go sign a 2-year contract and get the base model iPhone (most cost effective for you) at $199 and then sell it online to someone and recoup some or all of the $450 subsidy + upfront cost of $199 and stick it away for when you want to get an iPhone 7.

You don't make enough money back when re-selling by spending the extra $100-200 for higher storage capacities. Just buy the base model and sell it brand new in the box and get back some of that subsidy money that is going away after Jan 8th!

EDIT: Also, the newer MSV plans that do lower your cost monthly if you're off-contract are not "better deals" for most people on single-line plans. Therefore when you compare what you have now to what is available now, you find that the cost is about the same or more than you are paying now. That's just the way it is now and you can't really compare to a plan from 2007.

The one sure-fire way to reduce your monthly cost, especially if you are going to keep an older phone for many years (like your iPhone 5) would be to switch to Cricket pre-paid. It uses the AT&T network that you're used to, but it's far cheaper and then you can just buy your iPhone's outright as often as you'd like (keeping your old phone for longer).


If I were to dump my ATT contract and go with something like Cricket pre-paid... can I keep my same number? I also travel and use the ATT LTE for GPS Google maps, hotel reservations, etc. Do you think I'd have as much coverage with a pre-paid?
 
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