Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Network Management

There is nothing in the now 6 principles of open internet that prevents AT&T from actively managing their network so that one person can not hog so much bandwidth that it causes problems.

This just requires them to be open about how they manage the bandwidth, i.e. publish what you are doing and do not discriminate based on the type of content. You can still throttle someone's connection if they are using too much bandwidth.
 
As I use the internet alot I am mostly for neutrality, however given the companies own the networks they build and invest a lot of money building them I can see why they would want some control over how their network is being used (or abused).

Somewhere in the middle, probably more towards neutrality than not is the happy ground, part of any resolution would be that the carriers detail in full what types of services they are restricting and to what level.

Want to slow P2P transfers? Ok, but you need to document this in an easy to find location on your website, and not 50 layers down in some obscure documentation. If they are found to be blocking/controling access to a service or function without detailing it then they can be fined AND prevented from blocking that function for a year or so.

It isn't unfair for them to block services (or users) that are causing them network issues, but at the same time it is unfair to the consumer for the provider to with hold all information regarding the issues.
 
I don't feel bad for AT&T at all. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is the US not severely lacking in data speed and abundance compared to places like India, Japan, and Korea, along with the rest of the developed world? We should not be paying what we're paying for wireless services, cable television, and internet service. We're getting hosed as it is.
 
Ah it was so much easier for the wireless carriers under Bush. No wonder they gave him so much money.

Great point, comrade! I agree, we all deserve everything for free! Why work? Let the rich pay for it!!! I see a bright future for lazy folks like us.
 
Competitive?

"We are concerned, however, that the FCC appears ready to extend the entire array of Net neutrality requirements to what is perhaps the most competitive consumer market in America: wireless services," he said.​

"perhaps the most competitive"? That's as true as "the recession is over" or "health care death panels" or "Bailing out the banks will trickle down to the people."

Wireless is an extreme oligopoly. I bet you or this AT&T liar can't name more than 8 wireless providers in the USA. They charge out the a$$ for text messages in the USA! Oligopoly is very close to monopoly. True competition would be 100+ cell phone companies with actual price differences, features, and services. Competition is where phone companies don't just take orders from the Whitehouse to implement warrentless wire(less) tapping because if they don't their radio spectrum/wireless/business licenses won't be authorized or expedited (thus inhibiting their growth and slowing down their profits). Competition would be awesome! I would totally support true competition in the wireless market. Alas, the lies... the lies. The big companies can only allow the illusion of competition (otherwise they'd have to give up their power and size). All the big companies want that illusion. True competition would actually put a dent in their bottom line, so they can't allow that.... so we are stuck with the illusions and the lies (oh, and the dropped calls, poor performance, expensive plans, limited coverage, slow speeds, etc, etc).

They deserve to be ephed. Net Neutrality is about democracy, not about the bottom line. How much do you want to bet the wireless industry is spending on lobbying our government to keep their bottom lines protected? Democracy is a higher order than profits. We truly don't spend enough money in this country to defend democracy from companies that spend excessive money to keep control of their government (it's not really your government any more, folks). It's a corporate welfare state.... It's actually fascism. Fascism is when corporations control the government. It's already the American brand of fascism. Read up on it.

Obviously, if AT&Ts network can't keep up with the usage demand, increase the price, decrease the speed in total, or use some other market based scheme. If users complain, so what, they'll switch networks. Oh... that's right. They don't like real competition. If more and more people sign up and start using such services, won't that give the companies plenty of cash to expand infrastructure? Stupid me, they're greedy mo'fo's who don't really care that you hate them as long as they're in an oligopoly and you'll get treated like crap by any "competing" wireless company. Resistance is futile.

The competition that exists in the wireless marketplace is an illusion at best and very nearly monopolistic at worst.

Net Neutrality should absolutely be applied to all internet capable devices, including wireless, because of democracy, equal access, and freedom of speech. Let true competition live.
 
What makes you think Data and voice are sharing the same bands ?

You're agreeing with AT&T without even knowing a thing about the technology. Good job on being a tool of the system.

Actually...ATT specifically told me that 3G is shared on the same band for data and voice and Edge uses separate bands for voice and data.

By the way...I do think that net neutrality is needed...it will force carriers to update equipment and give better pricing in the end. I am also quite tired of ATT not being prepared for the data plans they like to get everyone to use.
 
Well for Verizon, voice goes on the 850 MHz band while data is on the 1900MHz band (or vice versa, can't remember which for sure)

Interesting. Wasn't aware of that.

I honestly don't know if AT&T is set up in a similar way...I'm just sick of the cliche AT&T bashing. ;)
 
How much would it cost the wireless carriers to enhance their infrastructure?

How much do a few execs at these companies make each year?
As much as stockholders like you and me allow (by investing in their tech). It's a publicly owned company driven by investors.

Your comment is typical of this new "socialist order" sweeping the U.S. lately. And you have no idea what you're talking about unless somebody tells you how to think.
 
At first, I came in on AT&T's side of this. Wireless network bandwidth is limited. But then I gave it some thought - why should they regulate how you use your allocation of bandwidth? The way AT&T needs to solve this is realistic bandwidth caps, not offering "unlimited" service, which, by the way, isn't really unlimited. Who cares what you use your allocation for?

The only way doing away with net neutrality helps is by making the whole bandwidth-limiting process more opaque.
 
Prediction

There is simply not enough wireless bandwidth to go around.....not now and certainly not 5 and 10 years from now.

The FCC is going to force the Wireless Carriers to bill per usage (byte). This is the only way they are going to be able to ensure that there is enough BW available for the average user (for phone calls, email, and casual surfing).

I kind of like my unlimited data plan now.....it keeps life simple.
 
What makes you think Data and voice are sharing the same bands ?

You're agreeing with AT&T without even knowing a thing about the technology. Good job on being a tool of the system.
What makes you think that means much when they are still going through the same tower. Regardless of whether they were on the same band, towers have a finite capacity which can be reached far more quickly in heavily populated areas of the US than in other countries.
 
The reason these companies are opposed to net neutrality is they do not want to invest their profits into upgrading their systems. Why else would they want to impose bandwidth caps, drag their feet on MMS and tethering, force you into bundled services, subsidize your phone, make you pay fees that amount to extortion when you want to break your contract? The fact is, they define high speed internet as 256K/sec or better. The don't want you to do VOIP or Video streaming because they are heavily invested in the old infrastructure and way of doing business.

They act like they own the internet to hear them talk and that any time "we" request a file it is delivered by virtue of "their" internet and infra-structure. Think about it for a moment. I watch a youtube video posted on a server in Japan. How many hops does it take to get to my screen? How many ISP's does it have to pass through? How many miles of ethernet cable, wifi connections, DSL lines, Coax, fiber, satellite and trans-oceanic cables do those bits travel through before that stream gets to my computer? Only a very small portion of that delivery service is owned, maintained and supported by...well, take your pick. Comcast, Cox, ATT, Qwest. And guess what? How much of that infra-structure is bought, paid for, or funded by the tax payer?
 
To those who are saying that today's prices are outrageous...

A lot of us paid huge amounts per minute for 9Kbps wireless data at the beginning of this decade. Now we get close to 1Mbps all the time for $1 a day. It's pretty darned sweet.

Bandwidth is very limited, at least until we get into 4G.

And as someone else mentioned, we have to be careful what we ask for. If the carriers have to start charging different data amount tiers to make up for some people wanting to Sling all day, a lot of people will no longer be able to afford iPhone data charges.
 
Wireless is an extreme oligopoly.​


Perhaps. However, the price to enter this market is very, very high. Yes, we want more competition. However, if you want to start up a new wireless service to compete with the current marketplace, Billions and Billions will need to be invested. What company is going to risk and invest all this capitol to enter this market now that the FCC wants to impose rules and regulations that will limit profitability? No one will. Once again, the government is going to mandate rules in an attempt to fix an issue that will only result in creating a larger problem.​
 
I think net neutrality should apply to all internet connections, in addition, if a plan is marketed as "unlimited", then it should have to truly be unlimited with no caps. If the plan was marketed as unlimited when a user signed up for it, then it cannot be changed unless the user changes plans and you cannot drop that plan from the user until the user chooses to change it, in other words:

I signed up for an "unlimited" plan three years ago, now that company wants to eliminate the unlimited plan, well that's fine for new customers, but cannot be done for existing customers.

I believe this should be included in a Net Neutrality bill as well.
 
Wireless is an extreme oligopoly.

Perhaps. However, the FCCs actions will only make matters worse. It will force the Wireless Carriers to handle more traffic than they are capable of supporting.....resulting in the growth and expense of the infrastructure.....causing a rise in the price of the service.

Oh....maybe the wireless carriers should do this without raising prices? Maybe they should just take a hit in their profits? Oh yeah, that will encourage a lot of new companies to expand into the wireless services sector and provide us with more competition. Yeah right.
 
Perhaps. However, the price to enter this market is very, very high. Yes, we want more competition. However, if you want to start up a new wireless service to compete with the current marketplace, Billions and Billions will need to be invested. What company is going to risk and invest all this capitol to enter this market now that the FCC wants to impose rules and regulations that will limit profitability? No one will. Once again, the government is going to mandate rules in an attempt to fix an issue that will only result in creating a larger problem.

Who is going to start up a business online when you have to pay protection money to the network carriers to ensure that your application's traffic gets through?

You are simply proposing to stifle innovation by raising the barrier to entry for any online business (and that's most of them now).

Projects like Wikipedia can provide viable alternatives to commercial offerings and rely on net neutrality to compete, Google could never have gained a foothold against the likes of MSN.

This is not about overall bandwidth, overall bandwidth limit is a red herring here and nothing will change the fact that has to be shared.

What net neutrality is about is giving me the freedom to use my alloted (and paid for) bandwidth as I see fit, to communicate with whomever I choose, using any method I like. My provider is still free to throttle my usage as necessary to ensure equal performance for everybody.

If carriers want this level of control - explicitly stating what can go on their network, they can forgo the indemnity the currently receive for the material they transmit.
 
Perhaps. However, the FCCs actions will only make matters worse. It will force the Wireless Carriers to handle more traffic than they are capable of supporting.....resulting in the growth and expense of the infrastructure.....causing a rise in the price of the service.

Oh....maybe the wireless carriers should do this without raising prices? Maybe they should just take a hit in their profits? Oh yeah, that will encourage a lot of new companies to expand into the wireless services sector and provide us with more competition. Yeah right.

Maybe it's for the best. Using wireless data is the way of the future. In about 5-10 years, using wireless data on your phone is going to be just as commonplace as using the phone part. Wouldn't we want net neutrality for whats going to be such a basic function in the very near future? Sure, there may be tremendous growing pains and these companies may have to invest a lot more of their (would be) profit to better technology, but it'll be worth it in the long run.
 
Net neutrality should not matter whether wires or wireless...

"He argues that wireless networks differ from wireline broadband networks because bandwidth is more limited on a wireless network"


ATT pure BS, bandwidth will expand and evolve!
:mad:
 
Net Neutrality should apply to all transportation mediums, including wireless. Wireless needs to be set up like DSL and Cable, where you pay for a maximum throughput and are capped at that.

If more people pay for higher throughputs, then companies have the money to upgrade their infrastructure to support those throughputs. If they fail to do so, consumers will simply move on to the another carrier who does keep up with their network. The free market dictates that net neutrality will work, and the attempts to derail it are attempts to remove the "free" from free market.

The arguments against net neutrality assume that ISPs have to eat the losses on people who abuse their connections. They do not, they simply need truthful advertising. Currently the advertisements are inaccurate at best and deceitful at worst in describing the service ("unlimited") you receive for the money you pay.
 
There is simply not enough wireless bandwidth to go around.....not now and certainly not 5 and 10 years from now.

The FCC is going to force the Wireless Carriers to bill per usage (byte). This is the only way they are going to be able to ensure that there is enough BW available for the average user (for phone calls, email, and casual surfing).

I kind of like my unlimited data plan now.....it keeps life simple.

You pay per byte right now technically. You have a 5GB/Mo limit. lets assume your data plan costs $60/Mo, you pay $12 per GB. Compare that to my $60/Mo Comcast for 250 GB/Mo, which is $0.24 per GB.

Is the ability to have internet access anywhere* at dial-up speeds worth the 50 times premium?

*anywhere is determined by how much money your provider has decided to sink into their network


Net neutrality should help force the big 4 to invest in their networks and provide a better quality. AKA, they'll have to compete!!

However, right now, there's no reason to switch. The devil that you know is better than the devil that you don't
 
What makes you think Data and voice are sharing the same bands ?

You're agreeing with AT&T without even knowing a thing about the technology. Good job on being a tool of the system.

its posts like this to me that stereotype Mac users as pinheads. Apparently the worlds foremost experts on all things technology subscribe to Macrumors. Without providing the data to speak to it otherwise, your just a tool of the other system.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.