HomeKit at wits end with homekit

[stevemiller]

over half the time all my philips hue accessories say "no response" in homekit. it has been like this for months. i've set up a new home, i've rebooted everything, always updated when necessary. and its not that it will never work... but intermittently working less than half the time is enough to make me give up on home automation all together.

also worth noting, its not malfunctioning lights or hue bridge, because i can always still control the everything through the hue app. the weak link is 100% homekit, and i feel like reliability issues have plagued it from the get-go.

 

[dotme]

If you're confident that the No Response is purely within HomeKit and you never experience trouble controlling lighting via the Hue App during the times when HomeKit says "No Response", then it's the network to blame 99% of the time.

In general terms, what does your network look like? Mesh? If so, is the Hue Bridge plugged into the base or a satellite node? Have you made sure AP Isolation is disabled? Is the network passing mDNS reliably between 2.4/5/Ethernet networks? Can you download the (free) Discovery app and see what's visible under _hap_tcp?

 

[stevemiller]

If you're confident that the No Response is purely within HomeKit and you never experience trouble controlling lighting via the Hue App during the times when HomeKit says "No Response", then it's the network to blame 99% of the time.

In general terms, what does your network look like? Mesh? If so, is the Hue Bridge plugged into the base or a satellite node? Have you made sure AP Isolation is disabled? Is the network passing mDNS reliably between 2.4/5/Ethernet networks? Can you download the (free) Discovery app and see what's visible under _hap_tcp?

i have a single router, and the bridge is plugged directly into it. i'm not sure how its a networking issue if the hue app always works perfectly doing the exact same thing over the exact same network? i'll maybe try to look into that networking app you mentioned later, but also if that level of technical understanding is needed to troubleshoot apple's networking issues when quite literally everything else on the network that isn't apple (siri also frequently will go 'hmm sorry i'm having trouble right now')... it kinda suggests the problem is apple stuff isn't very well implemented?

 

[dotme]

i have a single router, and the bridge is plugged directly into it. i'm not sure how its a networking issue if the hue app always works perfectly doing the exact same thing over the exact same network? i'll maybe try to look into that networking app you mentioned later, but also if that level of technical understanding is needed to troubleshoot apple's networking issues when quite literally everything else on the network that isn't apple (siri also frequently will go 'hmm sorry i'm having trouble right now')... it kinda suggests the problem is apple stuff isn't very well implemented?

Many manufacturer apps just need the app to see the internet, and the device being controlled to see the internet. Their cloud servers act as go-betweens.

HomeKit, though, specifically requires the controller (Hub or iDevice) to see the device (Hue Bridge) locally peer-to-peer and part of that communication often involves Bonjour/mDNS too. Some routers either limit that protocol, treat 2.4/5/Ethernet as separate networks, or isolate devices so they can't talk to each other - these things can break HomeKit.

I think you're right - nobody should have to tinker with routers to get this stuff working. But the benefit is privacy, and automations working even if your ISP is down. About all I can offer for a suggestion is to search for your make/model of WiFi router in conjunction with "HomeKit" and see if you can find people with similar troubles and what they did to solve it. FWIW I have 80 hue bulbs+sensors/switches across 2 bridges at home, and HomeKit is rock solid. So it definitely "can" work - you wouldn't be simply wasting your time trying to fix whatever's going on, if that makes sense. Hope this helps.

 

[stevemiller]

thanks for all those suggestions and that breakdown, its really appreciated. i'll take some time and see if i can figure anything out

 

[waw74]

do you have a home hub? (appleTV or HomePod)

have you rebooted that? if you have multiple, best to unplug all of them, and then go back and plug in.
especially with the HomePod, I've noticed sometimes certain processes seem to loose network connections, some questions will work fine, some will fail.


if you don't have a home hub, have you verified you're connected to your home network when you're showing not available? the hue app would still work (assuming you have remote access enabled) but without a hub, homekit will not.

 

[stevemiller]

do you have a home hub? (appleTV or HomePod)

have you rebooted that? if you have multiple, best to unplug all of them, and then go back and plug in.
especially with the HomePod, I've noticed sometimes certain processes seem to loose network connections, some questions will work fine, some will fail.


if you don't have a home hub, have you verified you're connected to your home network when you're showing not available? the hue app would still work (assuming you have remote access enabled) but without a hub, homekit will not.

yeah its failing on all of my apple devices, all of which are on my home network.

one other note, my hub is my ipad (which supposedly will lose homekit hub support with ios 16?) but its showing as standby even though the ipad is active and in use. however the ipad is nearly full, so i wonder if that has some effect on it?

which leads to other troubleshooting issues outside this particular thread i'm sure. i was under the impression that icloud+ it would free up space by storing photos and imessage attachments, but even with photos and messages in icloud enabled, the device shows its full, entirely from imessage attachments?

its just a bit frustrating because i find for all the claims of apple "just working" i run into basic things not working almost constantly

 

[w5jck]

yeah its failing on all of my apple devices, all of which are on my home network.

one other note, my hub is my ipad (which supposedly will lose homekit hub support with ios 16?) but its showing as standby even though the ipad is active and in use. however the ipad is nearly full, so i wonder if that has some effect on it?

which leads to other troubleshooting issues outside this particular thread i'm sure. i was under the impression that icloud+ it would free up space by storing photos and imessage attachments, but even with photos and messages in icloud enabled, the device shows its full, entirely from imessage attachments?

its just a bit frustrating because i find for all the claims of apple "just working" i run into basic things not working almost constantly

The only way to use the iPad as a hub is to keep the iPad plugged into a power source (charger) and turned ON, otherwise it won't work as a hub. This is likely the issue. Even then the iPad will be less effective as a hub than an HomePod mini or an Apple TV. If you really want a Homekit hub, I would get a HomePod mini. However, compared to my Alexa home automation, Homekit is pretty far behind. Alexa is not that great either, but Homekit is even farther behind the curve.

To test, plug in and turn ON the iPad.

 

[stevemiller]

The only way to use the iPad as a hub is to keep the iPad plugged into a power source (charger) and turned ON, otherwise it won't work as a hub. This is likely the issue. Even then the iPad will be less effective as a hub than an HomePod mini or an Apple TV. If you really want a Homekit hub, I would get a HomePod mini. However, compared to my Alexa home automation, Homekit is pretty far behind. Alexa is not that great either, but Homekit is even farther behind the curve.

To test, plug in and turn ON the iPad.

this definitely has something to do with it! i just plugged in the ipad and it now works with homekit devices. however the rest of my apple devices don't seem to be able to, even after a restart.

the plugged in requirement would certainly explain homekit only working intermittently. although i'm still a bit frustrated. i've got a good number of apple devices, and it sucks that basic functionality like this gets yanked away by apple at random intervals. i might not have bought into this home automation stuff at all if i'd known to keep it working i need to upgrade my apple tv or ipad more frequently than the lightbulbs they claimed they could control.

 

[w5jck]

Apple really sucks at writing software, including OSes and firmware. I’m not surprised that Homekit is riddled with bugs. Plus Apple doesn’t have nearly as many home automation devices certified by the manufacturers to work with Homekit as Amazon has for Alexa. If it is any consolation, Alexa home automation devices are not very reliable either.

 

[Nate8727]

this definitely has something to do with it! i just plugged in the ipad and it now works with homekit devices. however the rest of my apple devices don't seem to be able to, even after a restart.

the plugged in requirement would certainly explain homekit only working intermittently. although i'm still a bit frustrated. i've got a good number of apple devices, and it sucks that basic functionality like this gets yanked away by apple at random intervals. i might not have bought into this home automation stuff at all if i'd known to keep it working i need to upgrade my apple tv or ipad more frequently than the lightbulbs they claimed they could control.

I've been using Homekit for years without issue. I have Philips Hue as well as a number of other products, including non supported devices I use with a homebridge setup. The first rule for any kind of smart home equipment is to have a solid network (Mesh Preferably). After that use an Apple TV or HomePod as the hub. An iPad is not a reliable hub which makes sense why they're removing it. I'm hoping they add a Mac Mini or iMac as home hub options since they're typically hard wired to the network and don't often move.

 

[stevemiller]

I've been using Homekit for years without issue. I have Philips Hue as well as a number of other products, including non supported devices I use with a homebridge setup. The first rule for any kind of smart home equipment is to have a solid network (Mesh Preferably). After that use an Apple TV or HomePod as the hub. An iPad is not a reliable hub which makes sense why they're removing it. I'm hoping they add a Mac Mini or iMac as home hub options since they're typically hard wired to the network and don't often move.

i suppose ultimately this is the state of affairs of things. it just feels like i had the rug pulled out from under me, where i had a mostly usable homekit for a couple of years and now i'm being told i need to buy new stuff just to keep using what was working before. having to buy a new apple tv or homepod that i don't other wise want just to turn on and off lights is kinda lame.

i'd just migrate to using the hue app which has always worked, if only they made a decent shortcut widget - but i suspect that omission is intentional to drive people towards the home hub. i tried making my own but it seems like you have to make separate widgets just to do a single action like turning on a single light. and a completely separate widget to turn it off. rather than any sort of toggle