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I'm in Montana.

Ah, makes sense. I was a bit confused when you said your state was "pretty much totally blanketed with AT&T HSPA+" and their coverage map seems to show only pockets of that in darker blue, although pretty good 3G otherwise, considering the terrain. Of course, their map could be out of date.

montana_3g.png

And yes, there are places Verizon's the best choice and places AT&T's the best choice. Neither one is universally great and neither one universally sucks.

Yep.
 
Ah, makes sense. I was a bit confused when you said your state was "pretty much totally blanketed with AT&T HSPA+" and their coverage map seems to show only pockets of that in darker blue, although pretty good 3G otherwise, considering the terrain. Of course, their map could be out of date.

The lighter blue is still HSPA+, it's just not IP backhaul, so the ping times aren't as good.
 
Maybe it's done to preserve battery life?

We all can agree LTE sucks down battery life faster than 3G and 2G right?
 
I wonder if the next iPhone has LTE how Apple will handle it.

Interesting question. Seems unlikely that they'd want to use two radios (cost, battery), so my guess is that they'd go along with the way things are now on GSM, since by early 2013 we should have VoLTE - problem solved.

And would it need different iPhone models for AT&T and Verizon iPhones?

Even more interesting.

1) Before VoLTE, Verizon would obviously want two radios. Therefore it seems likely that they won't get an LTE iPhone until VoLTE is ready so it only needs one radio. Perhaps this is why they're trialing VoLTE already, and might deploy it sooner than expected.

2) AT&T and Verizon use opposite ends of the 700Mhz band, but still I believe a single antenna would work for both. So Apple should be able to make a single device, albeit in different models with different baseband code. RF engineers feel free to correct me.

The lighter blue is still HSPA+, it's just not IP backhaul, so the ping times aren't as good.

Thank you. I have learned something new because of your posts:

AT&T defines non-LTE 4G as "HSPA+ 14.4 or more, with enhanced backhaul".

So, as you said, you can have HSPA+ but it's not mapped as 4G without the backhaul in place.

Question: what does the iPhone status bar display in that case?
 
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This whole thing on 4G LTE and 3G thing kind of brings back memories of when I first bought my first gen iPhone. 3G existed, but they only offered edge. I thought it was the still great at the time... but then... they come out with the 3G. The funny thing is... I remember turning off 3G because at the time, because I was fine with edge... and it gave me better battery life. LOL...

I'm in Montana. And yes, there are places Verizon's the best choice and places AT&T's the best choice. Neither one is universally great and neither one universally sucks.

I can substitute Montana, and still agree with this. I'm both a Verizon (4G LTE data), and an AT&T (Phone and 3G data) customer. I can think of good and bad things from both providers, but I'm still happy with both. The only thing that annoys me my 4G LTE device is when it switches from 4G LTE to 3G, and the other way around, if either signal is weak. The lag time when it does the switch is horrible. I can't say that is a Verizon thing... or if it's just the current technology... but it does make me curious if I will have the same issue with an AT&T 4G LTE device.
 
I found something else. The real reason for the 1mbps speed or less during a vociecall.

It seems AT&T is throttling all smartphone customers during a phone call.

Whether the phone is an LTE phone like the Galaxy S2 Skyrocket or the Nokia Lumia 900 LTE.

They also throttle Hspa plus phones like the iPhone 4S during voice calls.

http://thesmartphonechamp.com/att-secretly-throttling-their-smartphone-customers-video/

And it gets worse. Uploads speed crawl to half the speed of dial up. U only get 24kpbs upload speed while on a voice call.

Seriously att. This is very sneaky. Don't advertise surf and talk and start degrading these features they automatically throttling all smartphone users.

That's Facebook photo you just shot and wanted to upload would take forever if you are on a vocie call.
 
It's actually data throttling while on he phone which AT&T has been doing since they started to throttle their data. Nothing with LTE caused this. Old news.

http://thesmartphonechamp.com/att-secretly-throttling-their-smartphone-customers-video/

I posted this on Howard Forums also. But thought this is an important issue to address since we all know the next generation iPhone will support LTE data.

http://www.howardforums.com/showthr...-(this-is-a-fact)-WTF?p=14787290#post14787290

But it appears ATT disables LTE data during a voice call. ATT tech level support confirmed this limitation to me also. You can call ATT to confirm yourself. You will drop down to 3G speeds. Not only that, I am barely getting 1mpbs when on a voice call.

Why is this important? Matters big time for those who pay for tethering. Expecting LTE speeds tethering. But suppose you are on a 60 minute conference call on your iPhone LTE. Your spouse is tethering off your iPhone LTE and wonders why her wifi computer speeds are so slow. So ATT has a lot of explaining to do if they advertise the LTE speeds but don't clearly disclose you will drop to 3G data on a voice call.

Another user on another forum had same almost exact speed drops as I did with LTE down to 3G speeds.
 
It seems AT&T is throttling all smartphone customers during a phone call.

http://thesmartphonechamp.com/att-secretly-throttling-their-smartphone-customers-video/

It's actually data throttling while on he phone which AT&T has been doing since they started to throttle their data. Nothing with LTE caused this. Old news.

Different topics.

This thread is about AT&T dropping LTE data and falling back to 3G for simultaneous voice+data when a voice call starts.

That article is claiming AT&T also throttles all 3G simultaneous voice+data sessions, which is where the LTE user would end up.
 
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Different topics.

This thread is about AT&T dropping LTE data and falling back to 3G for simultaneous voice+data when a voice call starts.

That article is claiming AT&T also throttles all 3G simultaneous voice+data sessions, which is where the LTE user would end up.

It is not different topics. He drops down to 3G speeds. It is data throttling while on any phone call no matter if you are using a 4G, 3G device.
 
I posted this on Howard Forums also. But thought this is an important issue to address since we all know the next generation iPhone will support LTE data.

http://www.howardforums.com/showthr...-(this-is-a-fact)-WTF?p=14787290#post14787290

But it appears ATT disables LTE data during a voice call. ATT tech level support confirmed this limitation to me also. You can call ATT to confirm yourself. You will drop down to 3G speeds. Not only that, I am barely getting 1mpbs when on a voice call.

Why is this important? Matters big time for those who pay for tethering. Expecting LTE speeds tethering. But suppose you are on a 60 minute conference call on your iPhone LTE. Your spouse is tethering off your iPhone LTE and wonders why her wifi computer speeds are so slow. So ATT has a lot of explaining to do if they advertise the LTE speeds but don't clearly disclose you will drop to 3G data on a voice call.

Another user on another forum had same almost exact speed drops as I did with LTE down to 3G speeds.

On Verizon, when on a call, LTE stays connected in background but I confirmed this by running a speedtest while on a phone call.

Currently but att and vzw use LTE for data only. Voice of LTE ( VoLTE ) has not been rolled out yet on eithier company. LTE is still kinda early on att, the att spectrum is 700mhz but att 700mhz spectrum is very limited. So i suspected att will eitheir buy more spectrum or convert edge to LTE. Eithier way early LTE phone won't be able to see the new LTE spectrum of 850mhz they can only see 700mhz

VZW has a nationwide 700mhz LTE spectrum that is very deep, much more depth than att's so they are in good shape.
 
On my Lumia, it switches from LTE to 4G which I'm guessing is HSPA+. After i'm done with the call it goes back to LTE. I've been on Sprint/Verizon for so long I forgot I could even do the whole surf while talking thing.

I'll have to try this out and if I come to the conclusion that I was incorrect in my statement above, I'll retract it but I could swear it "only" drops down to 4G (HSPA+).
 
I found something else. The real reason for the 1mbps speed or less during a vociecall.

It seems AT&T is throttling all smartphone customers during a phone call.

And it gets worse. Uploads speed crawl to half the speed of dial up. U only get 24kpbs upload speed while on a voice call.

Seriously att. This is very sneaky. Don't advertise surf and talk and start degrading these features they automatically throttling all smartphone users.

That's Facebook photo you just shot and wanted to upload would take forever if you are on a vocie call.
I'm sure based on this "factual" post, AT&T will lose millions of customers.
 
I'm sure based on this "factual" post, AT&T will lose millions of customers.

Not sure about millions of customers lost. But they may face millions of dollars lost in a class action lawsuit.

There will be lawsuits threatened because of this sneaky throttling. (the dropping of data speeds during a call). I guess AT&T thought they could save on bandwidth and thought people would not notice a drop in data speeds during voice calls?

But if they are trying to get people off unlimited data plans onto the $50/5GB data plan that offers tethering. They need to provide a reasonable service. We aren't talking about being in the boonies with 1 bar of edge so can't get good data. We aren't talking about being in congested cell phone towers that can't handle the traffice.

We are talking about purposely throttling all users (even tiered data users who assume they will get unthrottled data) during voice calls. And people who have LTE phones with pay for hotspots will notice the downgrade in data the most while on simultaneous calls with data active.

1. AT&T needs to explain to people with LTE phones that's they will automatically drop data speeds to not only Hspa but will be throttled to less than 1mbps download and less than dial up for upload speeds.

2. They need to explain to people with "Hspa/UMTS" phones similar data drops are expected on voice calls.

3. Oh yeah last but not least. They do not have to explain to users tethering on EDGE speeds cause not thottling is needed during voice calls because edge doesn't support voice/data at the same time.

All AT&T needs to do is write in 18-20 font size in all the pamphlets they release about 4g/LTE speeds. Or issue a public statement release regarding these isses That avoids all the pending lawsuits.

AT&T was smart to issue a public release statement about the 3GB/5GB throttling limits for all unlimited users. That's clear cut. Might piss some off. But it's the right thing to do to avoid legal lawsuits.
 
Not sure about millions of customers lost. But they may face millions of dollars lost in a class action lawsuit.

There will be lawsuits threatened because of this sneaky throttling. (the dropping of data speeds during a call). I guess AT&T thought they could save on bandwidth and thought people would not notice a drop in data speeds during voice calls?

But if they are trying to get people off unlimited data plans onto the $50/5GB data plan that offers tethering. They need to provide a reasonable service. We aren't talking about being in the boonies with 1 bar of edge so can't get good data. We aren't talking about being in congested cell phone towers that can't handle the traffice.

We are talking about purposely throttling all users (even tiered data users who assume they will get unthrottled data) during voice calls. And people who have LTE phones with pay for hotspots will notice the downgrade in data the most while on simultaneous calls with data active.

1. AT&T needs to explain to people with LTE phones that's they will automatically drop data speeds to not only Hspa but will be throttled to less than 1mbps download and less than dial up for upload speeds.

2. They need to explain to people with "Hspa/UMTS" phones similar data drops are expected on voice calls.

3. Oh yeah last but not least. They do not have to explain to users tethering on EDGE speeds cause not thottling is needed during voice calls because edge doesn't support voice/data at the same time.

All AT&T needs to do is write in 18-20 font size in all the pamphlets they release about 4g/LTE speeds. Or issue a public statement release regarding these isses That avoids all the pending lawsuits.

AT&T was smart to issue a public release statement about the 3GB/5GB throttling limits for all unlimited users. That's clear cut. Might piss some off. But it's the right thing to do to avoid legal lawsuits.
I respect the fact that you hate AT&T, you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

Although I don't advocate for any business or brand, I have carefully read AT&T's terms of service, privacy policies, and all other documentation. Before I place my signature on any binding contract, I read and understand it.

If more people took personal responsibility to do so, the "sky is falling" mentality would not be so prevalent.

I do understand it's terribly popular to make up stories, use assumptions & heresay, all in an effort to take out ones hate and aggression towards AT&T, to slander them is fashionable.

However these types of posts are nothing more than a futile attempt to paint a nefarious picture.

There a lot of very smart people that use AT&T, if any of these accusations were true, you'd be reading about it in every major newspaper, news site, and TV news show around the country.

Best case, is if you are so disturbed with AT&T, try one of the other carriers, all of which employ similar policies. You'll probably learn the grass is not greener. It's as simple as that. I know, I've used and continue to use, more than one carrier.

Lastly, your needs may be better served with a land line. Ditching your smartphone will relieve you of all this stress.
 
Current LTE chipsets are DATA only. When voice is needed the phone will fall back to the older 3G chips.
The next gen LTE chipsets will allow LTE data and voice. This is the one that fits in the release timeframe for apples new iPhone.
 
AT&T defines non-LTE 4G as "HSPA+ 14.4 or more, with enhanced backhaul".

So, as you said, you can have HSPA+ but it's not mapped as 4G without the backhaul in place.

Question: what does the iPhone status bar display in that case?

The iPhone ALWAYS displays 4G when on AT&T's UMTS network. The phone has no way to know what the backhaul is. I get *GOOD SPEEDS* on AT&T's network. Ping sucks, but what's new? I'm in Montana. Tonight there are some network problems city-wide, but AT&T's handling them much better than Cablevision/Optimum Online/former Bresnan:





To anyone who wonders why the phone will display 4G even when not running at "HSPA+ speeds" - what is HSPA+? It's a series of extensions to UMTS and what makes it "+" is really undefined. Some would say you need 64QAM for it to be +, but the iPhone is a 16QAM device (thus 14.0mbps. NOT 14.4. That's misquoted so often it's not even funny. I think it's because there were 14.4kbps MODEMS, and the 21.1mbps commonly quoted is 21.1mbps thus that decimal/last digit pattern is ingrained). Modulation also literally varies packet-to-packet depending on network conditions. How insane would it be if your phone flickered between 3G and 4G constantly based on the last packet in congested and weak signal areas? People would be confused as ****. No, it's best for it to just always say "4G"

P.S. I'm not even sure the "throttling" is real when in a voice call. The radio is working double-duty, and it's not going to run as fast. Can some T-Mobile/other UMTS carrier users chime in if they're seeing dramatically lower speeds while in a call?
 
I posted this on Howard Forums also. But thought this is an important issue to address since we all know the next generation iPhone will support LTE data.

http://www.howardforums.com/showthr...-(this-is-a-fact)-WTF?p=14787290#post14787290

But it appears ATT disables LTE data during a voice call. ATT tech level support confirmed this limitation to me also. You can call ATT to confirm yourself. You will drop down to 3G speeds. Not only that, I am barely getting 1mpbs when on a voice call.

Why is this important? Matters big time for those who pay for tethering. Expecting LTE speeds tethering. But suppose you are on a 60 minute conference call on your iPhone LTE. Your spouse is tethering off your iPhone LTE and wonders why her wifi computer speeds are so slow. So ATT has a lot of explaining to do if they advertise the LTE speeds but don't clearly disclose you will drop to 3G data on a voice call.

Another user on another forum had same almost exact speed drops as I did with LTE down to 3G speeds.

As an operator I can tell you this is pretty standard across most technologies at this time since the new release 3GPP 9 standards are not fully implemented on most vendors equipment at this time. VoLTE is in trial across multiple networks and still being debugged. Once VoLTE is fully implemented you will not have this issue any more. (Next 2 years give or take)
 
Verizon allows simultaneous voice and data while on 4G LTE.
Really? Pretty sure they don't. On the IPhone that is.
They don't. This sounds like hardware, and it explains why the VZW iPhone 5 can't do voice and data.
Verizon definitely allows simultaneous voice and LTE. I just loaded MacRumors on LTE on my Droid 4 while in a call:

eSObS.jpg


You're right that if there's any limitation, it's with the iPhone, not with the Verizon network itself.
 
This issue was brought up in the Anandtech #5 podcast. Basically the phone has one transmit chain, or channel to use. Since no carrier uses VoLTE, the ATT version has to fall back on the GSM network, which causes it to only be able to use the HSDPA+ data. Thats why you can't do simultaneous Voice and data on the iPhone 5 on Verizon because it only has one transmit chain, because it falls back on CDMA for voice and unfortunatly CDMA can't do voice and data. This isn't a problem on other Android handset because of the two chip solution, with a CDMA and LTE chip inside, compared to the iPhone 5 which has one single chip.


AnandTech Podcast #5

at roughly the 56 minute mark they begin talking about the issue. The podcast is definitely worth a listen because the divulge into some pretty technical aspects and questions about the iPhone 5.
 
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