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ATV 4 Release Date

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xplnusa

macrumors regular
Original poster
I apologize if this is like beating a dead horse but didn't see it anywhere yet. I'm in the process of gong to streaming through my whole house, I need two more ATV's and figure I might as well wait for the ATV 4 at this point.

Anyone have any insight into when they might be announced?

Can't wait to cut the cable cord!

Heath
 
xplnusa said:
I apologize if this is like beating a dead horse but didn't see it anywhere yet. I'm in the process of gong to streaming through my whole house, I need two more ATV's and figure I might as well wait for the ATV 4 at this point.

Anyone have any insight into when they might be announced?

Can't wait to cut the cable cord!

Heath
Click to expand...

*sigh* I guess it has been a couple weeks since someone asked this very question.....

No one knows. There really are no rumors. What do you think an AppleTV 4 will do over the AppleTV 3? The 3 was just updated about 6 months ago.

Dude, this isn't a $700 iPhone or a $1500 Mac. This is a $99 new, $75 refurb device (http://store.apple.com/us/product/FD199LL/A/refurbished-apple-tv). Just buy the dang thing and if Apple comes out with a 4, then either sell this one or move it to a secondary tv... Even if you sell it, you will take what maybe a $20 loss?
 
paulrbeers said:
*sigh* I guess it has been a couple weeks since someone asked this very question.....

No one knows. There really are no rumors. What do you think an AppleTV 4 will do over the AppleTV 3? The 3 was just updated about 6 months ago.
Click to expand...

Revision A was released on January 28, so thats about 9 months ago. 🙄
 
I'm not sure what the point of an Apple TV 4 would be unless they are going to ad 3D or 4k support... I guess it could be smaller or something though 🙂

When it comes to Apple TV I think they need to concentrate more on the software then the hardware.. With all of the apps they keep adding it's getting a bit messy.. They really need to implement an App Store so that people can just install what they want. They still haven't even added the simple things like itunes extras..

They also need to rethink the remote app... They need integration between the Apple TV apps and the remote app on the iOS device so that you can easily brows and play content from the iOS device.

The aluminum remote also needs and update.... It needs page scrolling buttons.
 
There is a bit of a rumour that a new or revised set top box might be announced on October 15, but who knows. Rumours are rarely correct.
 
sleek881 said:
Revision A was released on January 28, so thats about 9 months ago. 🙄
Click to expand...

6 or 9, really, does it matter? The point was that they just redid the internals this year. The chances of a new one are slim any time soon and even if there was, what would it really bring to the table?
 
My guess, October 22nd.

"I guess those excited about a software refresh in a week are gonna be *really* excited when new Apple TV hardware is unveiled next month," Siegler tweeted.

The January hardware update did not add any functionality, so it has been quite a while since we've gotten a new generation.

Based on the timing of last years Apple event, we may see another event this October which could include a new Apple TV (ATV 3g was announced alongside iPads)

If the timing of this years October event matches last years, expect an event announcement 10/15 and an event 10/22.

As far as what hardware could change, here are a few possibilities:
  • WiFi ac - recently updated Macs and Airport products have it, mobile do not)
  • WiFi Direct - mobile devices from the last few generations have this, and I could see it be used to reduce latency when Air playing games, among other uses.
  • H.265 decoding GPU - Even if the iTunes Store sticks with 1080p max streams, h.265 could halve the bandwidth used. I don't believe even the new iPhones have this, so may be a long shot.
  • increase from 8 GB - the better to handle a new App Store
 
AppDave said:
As far as what hardware could change, here are a few possibilities:
  • WiFi ac - recently updated Macs and Airport products have it, mobile do not)
  • WiFi Direct - mobile devices from the last few generations have this, and I could see it be used to reduce latency when Air playing games, among other uses.
  • H.265 decoding GPU - Even if the iTunes Store sticks with 1080p max streams, h.265 could halve the bandwidth used. I don't believe even the new iPhones have this, so may be a long shot.
  • increase from 8 GB - the better to handle a new App Store
Click to expand...

I'd also want gigabit ethernet. That would allow me to stream some of my 1080p home video from iMovie to the Apple TV more quickly.
 
dgalvan123 said:
I'd also want gigabit ethernet. That would allow me to stream some of my 1080p home video from iMovie to the Apple TV more quickly.
Click to expand...

You'll have to explain how so? Even a full blu-ray rip won't even come close to saturating a 100mbps ethernet connection.... About the only thing that it would help is the initial buffering, but even then it shouldn't take very long before you have a full buffer on ethernet.
 
paulrbeers said:
You'll have to explain how so? Even a full blu-ray rip won't even come close to saturating a 100mbps ethernet connection.... About the only thing that it would help is the initial buffering, but even then it shouldn't take very long before you have a full buffer on ethernet.
Click to expand...
Gigabyte ethernet sounds cool and powerful. Most people don't really understand the file transfer speeds and therefore say they want the most powerful sounding thing they can get. Same with ac wireless protocol. Of minimal help for the aTV but people want it because it sounds great. 😉
 
paulrbeers said:
You'll have to explain how so? Even a full blu-ray rip won't even come close to saturating a 100mbps ethernet connection.... About the only thing that it would help is the initial buffering, but even then it shouldn't take very long before you have a full buffer on ethernet.
Click to expand...

My 1080p home movies from my digital SLR (Canon EOS Rebel T2i, the movies are uncompressed mp4, I think, and they sit in my iPhoto Library) take FOREVER to stream to Apple TV (over ethernet) unless I specifically "export to iTunes" using quicktime first. That export process degrades the quality noticeably.

In theory, they "shouldn't take very long". In reality, they do.
 
dgalvan123 said:
My 1080p home movies from my digital SLR (Canon EOS Rebel T2i, the movies are uncompressed mp4, I think, and they sit in my iPhoto Library) take FOREVER to stream to Apple TV (over ethernet) unless I specifically "export to iTunes" using quicktime first. That export process degrades the quality noticeably.

In theory, they "shouldn't take very long". In reality, they do.
Click to expand...

mic j said:
Gigabyte ethernet sounds cool and powerful. Most people don't really understand the file transfer speeds and therefore say they want the most powerful sounding thing they can get. Same with ac wireless protocol. Of minimal help for the aTV but people want it because it sounds great. 😉
Click to expand...

The camera mentioned records in H.264 with uncompressed PCM audio at 330MB per minute (both 720p and 1080p modes have same data rate just differing max frame rates). This works out at 5.5 MB per second of data.

Fast Ethernet maxes out at ~12MB per second so for every second you wait your AppleTV buffers about 2 seconds of video. That should allow the stream to start pretty quickly and the wait is likely the AppleTV building up a start buffer.

That said updating to Gigabit would allow you to buffer 10 times faster meaning you per second you could be buffering upwards of 10 seconds of playback meaning the video would start faster.

Based on the maths above an update to gigabit would likely make a difference to buffering times on HD footage.

Not a massive deal and Apple could get over/improve the delay by tweaking the buffering code to start with a smaller buffer as long as the data is arriving faster than the video bit-rate.

Anyway my conclusion before looking at the data was Gigabit is not needed, however after doing the maths I think it could be of some benefit for higher bit rate movies. However the likely culprit for the long wait is not the ethernet connection but the AppleTV requiring overly large buffer before starting playback.
 
They just did a major software update to version 6.0. If apple was releasing new hardware they likely would have coincided that release if they were near each other.

Apple has no reason to update the chipset since the current model plays 1080p just fine. No App Store is there yet, so there's no reason to bump the storage.

Nothing is coming this year. Next year. Probably.
 
dgalvan123 said:
My 1080p home movies from my digital SLR (Canon EOS Rebel T2i, the movies are uncompressed mp4, I think, and they sit in my iPhoto Library) take FOREVER to stream to Apple TV (over ethernet) unless I specifically "export to iTunes" using quicktime first. That export process degrades the quality noticeably.

In theory, they "shouldn't take very long". In reality, they do.
Click to expand...

Convert your MP4s to M4Vs. You should see an improvement. There are different ways to encode an MP4 and some are not optimised for streaming.
 
stuartluff said:
Convert your MP4s to M4Vs. You should see an improvement. There are different ways to encode an MP4 and some are not optimised for streaming.
Click to expand...
In a nutshell, m4v is just renamed mp4 solely to iTunes' liking.
So unless the OP is about to re-encode his huge bitrate camera movies into more lightweight video streams, there will be no benefit and no need to convert anything. Just change the filename extension.
At the end of the day, AppleTV 3 handles 5-10Mbps video streams with ease, so that should be the target range to encode for aTV playback.
I personally re-encode my 1080p BD rips to around 5Mbps with HandBrake, because HB's opensource x264 encoder does a marvellous job on bitrate vs quality front.
 
I think anyone on the fence should wait until after October 22, 2013. My reasoning is as follows:

1. Software updates do not always need to coincide with hardware updates. In fact, in the tech industry we see software revisions midway through major hardware revisions. This is a tactic to get products to appear newer or refreshed. But this is not a super solid point, I will agree.

2. Even though the ATV3 was updated in its hardware in January, it was not a major update but rather a cost saving update with certain components. Often times companies update their devices with newer, cheaper or cost effective components that have no impact on performance. This can also be seen in the video game industry with Playstation and Xbox console revisions. Components that change are usually as small as heatsinks and fans, and as big as chipset footprint sizes.

3. There is demand for new hardware. New devices arriving to the market like Chromecast are demonstrating features like streaming wherein they do not always stream from devices but also allow themselves to take over the stream so as to leave the devices free to use by the user. This and the need for more memory for apps to be offloaded to the ATV. Imagine running a game off your iPhone and have half the game load on the ATV's memory. This would allow for a more fluid and console like experience for gaming and would make sense with the incoming introduction of MFi game controllers in iOS 7. New specs are needed like Wifi 802.11ac, etc. which have been already explained in this forum.

4. Competition. The Chromecast is one thing, but now Roku is stepping up its game as well as Samsung with their SmartTV line. Apple needs to always stay on top, even if it means releasing a seemingly marginal update (iPhone 5S?). Also there are rumors of Amazon coming out with their own set top box. If Apple doesn't release an ATV4, then the average consumer will be holiday shopping for the latest Amazon box, which I am sure will make headlines as much as the Kindle Fire.

These are my opinions. Only time will tell. Again, if you're on the fence and $99 USD is a lot for you, then wait 1.5 weeks. You have nothing to loose. No one will point and laugh either because it'll be our little secret. 😉

TL;DR --> ATV4 will probably be announced on October 22 due to competition from Amazon & Google as well as needed support for powerful apps/games.
 
Last edited:
I wonder if Apple will do something about Airplay lag?

It sounds like the MFi gaming controllers will be announced soon, so gaming will get a higher profile.

Rather than opening an app store for Apple TV, I can see why Apple would leave things the way they are, and let your iPhone or iPad do the heavy lifting. The Apple TV would remain a mirroring device.

... that is, if it's possible to fix that lag.
 
Bdub12 said:
I wonder if Apple will do something about Airplay lag?

It sounds like the MFi gaming controllers will be announced soon, so gaming will get a higher profile.

Rather than opening an app store for Apple TV, I can see why Apple would leave things the way they are, and let your iPhone or iPad do the heavy lifting. The Apple TV would remain a mirroring device.

... that is, if it's possible to fix that lag.
Click to expand...

That's tough to be competitive like that tough. AppleTV $99 + iPhone/iPad $600+ doesn't work for a lot of people.

Apple likes to lure people into their ecosystem. So the Apple TV needs to stand out first and foremost then have this other amazing feature "AirPlay" that makes people want to invest into other Apple products.

I feel they really need to up their channel selection game as a viable cable tv replacement option first. Then easier access to non iTunes media (unlikely).
 
Why would one fret over a sub $100 device?

Buy one now, enjoy it. When new one is released, buy that. I am sure you have more than 1 TV in your home, so just put the ATV3 on another TV.

Easy peasy.

I don't see what else needs upgraded as far as hardware, I stream full uncompressed Blurays, as well as 1080p M4V's to ATV3 using ethernet, and I never had a hiccup.

Everything else will probably just be software at this point. Maybe wireless AC just to keep in line with their Airports, but N should suffice? I guess if they open an AppStore for the ATV, it might need some local storage, but I think we are a long, long ways from that evolution happening. If they ever start support 4K content, probably a faster CPU as well, but again I think that is a long ways off.
 
cynics said:
That's tough to be competitive like that tough. AppleTV $99 + iPhone/iPad $600+ doesn't work for a lot of people.

Apple likes to lure people into their ecosystem. So the Apple TV needs to stand out first and foremost then have this other amazing feature "AirPlay" that makes people want to invest into other Apple products.
. . .
Click to expand...

I think you've got it backwards. There are far more people interested in owning an iphone than there are people interested in an Apple TV.

So the marketing plan is not: entice them through a $99 Apple TV, then convince them to spend an extra $600 on an (apparently unsubsidized) iPhone.

The marketing plan is: Suggest a $99 Apple TV as an accessory to the $600 iPhone/iPad that people already own.
 
If current Apple TV works for you, go ahead and pick one up. A refurb from Apple is only $75.

The refresh cycle for the ATV doesn't follow any real pattern like say, the iPhone, so trying to predict when a new ATV will come is a crapshoot. Supposedly Apple's got an event planned for Oct. 22, but most experts think it will be for the new iPad, as well as the debut of OS X Mavericks and possibly the Mac Pro. It's possible a new ATV might sneak in, but hard to tell at this point.

Eventually Apple will at least update the ATV to include the wireless AC standard, if nothing else. If Apple decides the ATV should be doing other things like allowing for user-installed third-party apps or changing into a gaming device, then a more radical design would likely be required.
 
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