ATV 4K VS Samsung KS8000 4k upscaler (and hdr)

[plexdk]

Hi.

As a baseline, i've used the new Star Trek Discovery TV show, which is 1080p HDR.

About the 4K upscale, it looks like the samsung KS8000 upscales the 1080p stream to a sharper 4K image, than the ATV. Is this true for other KS8000 owners? (all settings are calibrated to the same)

Another thing, when looking at the HDR image, its also more natural on the KS8000, than ATV.
On the ATV its more red'ish/over saturated.

I'm using the AUTO color space for both.
My ATV is set to: 4:2:2, 4K HDR 60hz


Can it really be that the ATV 4K over saturates, + is inferior to the samsung's 4K upscaler?

 

[danieleilertsen]

Hi.

As a baseline, i've used the new Star Trek Discovery TV show, which is 1080p HDR.

About the 4K upscale, it looks like the samsung KS8000 upscales the 1080p stream to a sharper 4K image, than the ATV. Is this true for other KS8000 owners? (all settings are calibrated to the same)

Another thing, when looking at the HDR image, its also more natural on the KS8000, than ATV.
On the ATV its more red'ish/over saturated.

I'm using the AUTO color space for both.
My ATV is set to: 4:2:2, 4K HDR 60hz


Can it really be that the ATV 4K over saturates, + is inferior to the samsung's 4K upscaler?

Almost all movies are in 4 2 2 0, you should try this. I have a ks9800, and use 4k sdr 60 hz. Really pleased, but hope they will enable autoswitching soon

 

[err404]

Star Trek is a stylized show that is ment to look very saturated. Are you sure that is not your issue? HDR in general is sometimes mastered more saturated than SDR to highlight the difference in the tech. It is still early days for HDR, so I expect content to get better. I don’t find the Apple TVs HDR content to look any more saturated than my KS8000 built in apps in HDR.
As for the upscaler, the amount of processing is largely personal preference. I think the Apple TV upscaler is fine, but prefer to have most of my TVs “enhancement” features disabled.

 

[mrrobotoplus]

Another thing, when looking at the HDR image, its also more natural on the KS8000, than ATV.
On the ATV its more red'ish/over saturated.

That's why calibration should be made on ANY HDMI input.

 

[plexdk]

That's why calibration should be made on ANY HDMI input.

Yup, i also do that, but when it comes to hdr it shouldn’t be needed to calibrate the color space, according to calibration sites

 

[err404]

Yup, i also do that, but when it comes to hdr it shouldn’t be needed to calibrate the color space, according to calibration sites

But can that really be true when the vast majority of HDR TVs are still LCD and most are not physically capable of displaying the full HDR color space?

 

[plexdk]

But can that really be true when the vast majority of HDR TVs are still LCD and most are not physically capable of displaying the full HDR color space?

Well, when I use the exact same settings with the built in netflix app, it looks normal (not over saturated)... so.. A / B testing with same settings, shows a difference where the apple tv looks inferior

 

[err404]

Well, when I use the exact same settings with the built in netflix app, it looks normal (not over saturated)... so.. A / B testing with same settings, shows a difference where the apple tv looks inferior

You claimed that calibration per input should not be required with HDR. My point was that we have not reached a point where displays allow this to be a reality since most displays can not reproduce the full color space. Different manufacturer and devices still effectively need to tone balance content which leads to differences in appearance.
Your claim that Netflix’s tone mapping is different on the AppleTV vs the manufacturer’s app only demonstrates my point further.
For what is worth, the TV manufacturer creates a tone map profile tuned to their displays tech. I would expect it to be better out-of-the-box than a device that needs to work with every model TV.

 

[plexdk]

You claimed that calibration per input should not be required with HDR. My point was that we have not reached a point where displays allow this to be a reality since most displays can not reproduce the full color space. Different manufacturer and devices still effectively need to tone balance content which leads to differences in appearance.
Your claim that Netflix’s tone mapping is different on the AppleTV vs the manufacturer’s app only demonstrates my point further.
For what is worth, the TV manufacturer creates a tone map profile tuned to their displays tech. I would expect it to be better out-of-the-box than a device that needs to work with every model TV.

Well, yes, color space can be calibrated, just funny this shouldn’t be the case according to professional calibration firms, when it comes to hdr on this specific model - anyway, that’s one thing - it’s not only hdr.. you can’t calibrate the upscaler up in the atv. The truth here is, it’s worse compared to the Samsung’s. But I hope it will get better in future updates. (And no, sharpness shouldn’t be used to compensate, it just creates artifacts)

 

[mrrobotoplus]

Even calibrating the grayscale changes the overall perceived picture color. Mine ks8000 at default state is bluish, after an electronic grayscale calibration is much yellowish. Without touching color gamut.

Btw I don’t have any of your problems. Pictures is the same on atv 4k and stock apps on mine. HDR is simply a mess at this time. You can’t blame anyone actually.