Audio Return Channel (ARC)

[James Godfrey]

Hi all

I have a 2 x Sony TV’s with HDMI ARC and I have set up my Apple TV to use the Audio Return Channel feature.

Now I know this feature is in BETA, but I am having an issue where my TV seems to connect and reconnect a few times when first turning the TV on, switching between the HomePods and the regular TV speakers then eventually settles on the HomePods.

Its quite annoying so just wondering if anyone has a fix?

Thanks

 

[Liv1]

HI, I had the same issue when I used it with a Sony Android TV would work most of the time but would sometimes fail. I have replaced the 2015 Sony with a new LG TV using eARC and not had one disconnection in 3months so I think its the Android software on the Sony Tv which is the issue.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

In all these years ARC has been in play, it has never achieved universal "just works" quality: this device connected to that device doesn't work well but one of those connected to this other thing does. It doesn't even offer simple troubleshooting tools to help one figure out how to resolve such issues. Often, it's some kind of process-based configuration tests to maybe eventually find a sequence of connections that gets you what you want.

My opinion is to seek other ways to replicate what you want it to do rather than rely on ARC. For example, a universal remote with macros can generally make any home electronic setup work as people want ARC to work. The remote becomes the ARC-replacement "brains" of the setup and the macro lets YOU manage the links in the HE chain.

However, if you want to try to find some way, work through the order of things being turned on. In other words, mix up that order to see if you find a magic combination that gets you what you want. In playing with ARC in my own setup, I came to discover that if I let AppleTV be the FIRST ON device, the receiver and then TV in the chain work pretty well. Similarly TV as FIRST ON will turn on the receiver and work well (but won't turn on AppleTV). Receiver on first won't light either, nor know which mode I might want it in or input I want to be in control.

OP, in your situation, AppleTV has to "handshake" with those HomePods. There's a little time there to negotiate that connection each time. AppleTV does NOT assume your Homepods are still available to it each time you turn it on. So it needs to scan for them and connect each time.

So ARC is probably "searching" for speakers when turned on and not "seeing" Homepods (yet), nor any other, so it "thinks" it should use TV speakers. Then AppleTV succeeds at fully connecting with Homepods, reports that these other speakers will be used and the TV's ARC then bows out the TV speakers to use the HomePod speakers.

Since there is always going to be a bit of time for AppleTV and Homepods to fully connect, I don't think you'll get a simple ARC "ON" process. If there was some way to delay when the TV turns on for the time it takes for AppleTV and Homepods to fully connect with each other, that would likely do it. So this would be: AppleTV on... AppleTV locates & syncs with HomePod(s)... THEN TV on... ARC "sees" that audio has somewhere to play other than the TVs speakers so it doesn't need to assign the TV speakers.

In my own setup, I have WIRED surround sound speakers via a receiver. So using ARC, AppleTV on then "calls" for Receiver to turn on. Receiver needs no time to determine what speakers are attached because they are wired. Receiver "calls" for TV to turn on. TV doesn't need to turn on TV speaker because ARC has assigned Receiver for audio already. Thus, I get what I think you seek: a simple, everything "ON" without things blinking on and off as the system "figures out" where video and audio will be played.

Probably the simplest solution for you would be to abandon ARC and use AppleTV remote to control AppleTV + Homepods part... and the TV remote for TV on/off.

OR buy a macro-based universal remote. This would get you one-button-click, everything-on and off functionality. In this setup, without ARC trying to find speakers not yet acknowledged by AppleTV, it would simply use the TV as a video monitor. AppleTV and Homepods would sync and work as you wish. Downside to this: still 2 remotes if you want to use the AppleTV remote/SIRI.

BUT, before you go either way, play with the order of when you turn things on. For example, if right now you are turning on TV first then AppleTV, flip that order. If TV is first on, there's nothing else for ARC to "see" so it assumes TV video and audio. Then, you turn AppleTV on, Apple TV executes the process to find and connect with HomePod(s) and then "tells" TV that audio should be shifted to them. Net effect: TV on, TV speakers on, AppleTV on, short delay, Homepods found & connected, TV speakers off/ignored.

In the longer run, consider putting a Receiver in the middle with wired speakers. Homepods were never intended to be used for any true TV surround sound... and real surround is better than even HomePod stereo. If you go there and have the budget, I suggest not trying to shortcut it with the soundbar route either. 5 or 7 speakers placed correctly is much better than trying to fake it with one bar- even those spun as ATMOS bars- front and center. Faux surround is not surround. Faux ATMOS is not ATMOS. Your ears would hear the difference if you compared the two.

 

[James Godfrey]

HI, I had the same issue when I used it with a Sony Android TV would work most of the time but would sometimes fail. I have replaced the 2015 Sony with a new LG TV using eARC and not had one disconnection in 3months so I think its the Android software on the Sony Tv which is the issue.

Thanks for the info!

In all these years ARC has been in play, it has never achieved universal "just works" quality: this device connected to that device doesn't work well but one of those connected to this other thing does. It doesn't even offer simple troubleshooting tools to help one figure out how to resolve such issues. Often, it's some kind of process-based configuration tests to maybe eventually find a sequence of connections that gets you what you want.

My opinion is to seek other ways to replicate what you want it to do rather than rely on ARC. For example, a universal remote with macros can generally make any home electronic setup work as people want ARC to work. The remote becomes the ARC-replacement "brains" of the setup and the macro lets YOU manage the links in the HE chain.

However, if you want to try to find some way, work through the order of things being turned on. In other words, mix up that order to see if you find a magic combination that gets you what you want. In playing with ARC in my own setup, I came to discover that if I let AppleTV be the FIRST ON device, the receiver and then TV in the chain work pretty well. Similarly TV as FIRST ON will turn on the receiver and work well (but won't turn on AppleTV). Receiver on first won't light either, nor know which mode I might want it in or input I want to be in control.

OP, in your situation, AppleTV has to "handshake" with those HomePods. There's a little time there to negotiate that connection each time. AppleTV does NOT assume your Homepods are still available to it each time you turn it on. So it needs to scan for them and connect each time.

So ARC is probably "searching" for speakers when turned on and not "seeing" Homepods (yet), nor any other, so it "thinks" it should use TV speakers. Then AppleTV succeeds at fully connecting with Homepods, reports that these other speakers will be used and the TV's ARC then bows out the TV speakers to use the HomePod speakers.

Since there is always going to be a bit of time for AppleTV and Homepods to fully connect, I don't think you'll get a simple ARC "ON" process. If there was some way to delay when the TV turns on for the time it takes for AppleTV and Homepods to fully connect with each other, that would likely do it. So this would be: AppleTV on... AppleTV locates & syncs with HomePod(s)... THEN TV on... ARC "sees" that audio has somewhere to play other than the TVs speakers so it doesn't need to assign the TV speakers.

In my own setup, I have WIRED surround sound speakers via a receiver. So using ARC, AppleTV on then "calls" for Receiver to turn on. Receiver needs no time to determine what speakers are attached because they are wired. Receiver "calls" for TV to turn on. TV doesn't need to turn on TV speaker because ARC has assigned Receiver for audio already. Thus, I get what I think you seek: a simple, everything "ON" without things blinking on and off as the system "figures out" where video and audio will be played.

Probably the simplest solution for you would be to abandon ARC and use AppleTV remote to control AppleTV + Homepods part... and the TV remote for TV on/off.

OR buy a macro-based universal remote. This would get you one-button-click, everything-on and off functionality. In this setup, without ARC trying to find speakers not yet acknowledged by AppleTV, it would simply use the TV as a video monitor. AppleTV and Homepods would sync and work as you wish. Downside to this: still 2 remotes if you want to use the AppleTV remote/SIRI.

BUT, before you go either way, play with the order of when you turn things on. For example, if right now you are turning on TV first then AppleTV, flip that order. If TV is first on, there's nothing else for ARC to "see" so it assumes TV video and audio. Then, you turn AppleTV on, Apple TV executes the process to find and connect with HomePod(s) and then "tells" TV that audio should be shifted to them. Net effect: TV on, TV speakers on, AppleTV on, short delay, Homepods found & connected, TV speakers off/ignored.

In the longer run, consider putting a Receiver in the middle with wired speakers. Homepods were never intended to be used for any true TV surround sound... and real surround is better than even HomePod stereo. If you go there and have the budget, I suggest not trying to shortcut it with the soundbar route either. 5 or 7 speakers placed correctly is much better than trying to fake it with one bar- even those spun as ATMOS bars- front and center. Faux surround is not surround. Faux ATMOS is not ATMOS. Your ears would hear the difference if you compared the two.

Thanks for the in depth response to my question, in my experience so far… if I turn Apple TV on first my TV automatically comes on at the same time unfortunately… maybe I could turn that setting off I don’t know.

It seems to happen even if I switch which HDMI channel I am using, so if for example I switch from HDMI 1 to HDMI 2, the TV sort of connect then disconnects then reconnects to the HomePods sometimes it can do it 3 to 4 times before it settles down. Once they’re connected though I have zero issues unless I switch off the TV and back on again, or I switch HDMI channel.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

No, it's highly unlikely you could set up some kind of delay between when AppleTV comes on and when TV comes on over ARC. That experimentation was more to see if maybe starting with AppleTV would slow down the pace that ARC "makes the decision" of initial speakers. It sounds like you've already tried that and it doesn't make any difference.

Don't think of the TV connecting to HomePods. That's not actually in play at all. Homepods are connected by AppleTV and it's that little bit of time AppleTV needs to see if they are still there and connect that is leading ARC to "choose" the only speakers "it" sees- the TV speakers- until AppleTV re-establishes the link to the HomePods and "says", "No I'm going to send the audio for AppleTV video to these HomePods instead of using your TV speakers." Your TV has no real say in that link between HomePods and AppleTV. It's like 2 almost completely separate things.

It might help to think about it like this: maybe the most common use of ARC is to hook a soundbar via ARC to the ARC jack on a TV. The purpose? To make the TV choose to use the better (soundbar) speaker(s) instead of the stock speaker(s) built into the TV. That's wired, so via ARC, that decision happens very quickly and the soundbar will "own" the audio in that setup. If you went the soundbar route instead of HomePods for TV audio, it would all seem to work smoothly: turn on AppleTV with no HomePods to connect, ARC from AppleTV says turn on TV, TV turns on and ARC from it immediately "sees" the better speaker- the soundbar- is available and uses it. So AppleTV audio flows through HDMI to TV and from TV through HDMI to play on the soundbar. TV speakers never come into play.

Hypothetically, imagine a soundbar that uses bluetooth to connect in that same example. Now it needs a tiny bit of time for the bluetooth connection to be realized. What would probably happen. First TV Speakers would be seen as ONLY speakers available until bluetooth soundbar could be discovered and linked in. So you would have the same effect of TV speakers and then switching to this bluetooth soundbar.

What you have going on involves a little delay that is causing the effect. The delay is in the wireless connecting needing to be done each time between AppleTV and Homepods. Initial ARC "decisions" see no speaker other than your TV speaker at first so it assumes them, the ARC "communications" between TV and AppleTV "corrects" that assumption when AppleTV "decides" to use HomePod speakers instead for audio.

That 3 or 4 times effect is perplexing but it may be something like Apple finds one HomePod, ARC tries to use it, then Apple rediscovers HomePod #2 is also available, maybe- to ARC- temporarily releases HomePod #1 so it and #2 can sync up for stereo (which then leads back to TV speakers as ONLY speakers very briefly) and then reconnects the HomePod pair so then AppleTV overrides TV Speaker use a second time by "notifying" ARC that a pair of HomePods will handle AppleTV audio now. I'm less sure about this part but that's my best guess.

The bigger point: it's doubtful you will resolve this by leaning on ARC. For your setup, I probably cut ARC out of the equation and simply use the TV remote for TV on off, then AppleTV remote to control the rest. With ARC connections severed, TV speakers might technically be ON but you can turn volume down to ZERO to basically not use them. AppleTV will manage the relationship between it and those HomePods: video signal sent to TV and audio signal sent to HomePods.

Sorry I couldn't see a way to make ARC do what you want with your setup.

 

[James Godfrey]

No, it's highly unlikely you could set up some kind of delay between when AppleTV comes on and when TV comes on over ARC. That experimentation was more to see if maybe starting with AppleTV would slow down the pace that ARC "makes the decision" of initial speakers. It sounds like you've already tried that and it doesn't make any difference.

Don't think of the TV connecting to HomePods. That's not actually in play at all. Homepods are connected by AppleTV and it's that little bit of time AppleTV needs to see if they are still there and connect that is leading ARC to "choose" the only speakers "it" sees- the TV speakers- until AppleTV re-establishes the link to the HomePods and "says", "No I'm going to send the audio for AppleTV video to these HomePods instead of using your TV speakers." Your TV has no real say in that link between HomePods and AppleTV. It's like 2 almost completely separate things.

It might help to think about it like this: maybe the most common use of ARC is to hook a soundbar via ARC to the ARC jack on a TV. The purpose? To make the TV choose to use the better (soundbar) speaker(s) instead of the stock speaker(s) built into the TV. That's wired, so via ARC, that decision happens very quickly and the soundbar will "own" the audio in that setup. If you went the soundbar route instead of HomePods for TV audio, it would all seem to work smoothly: turn on AppleTV with no HomePods to connect, ARC from AppleTV says turn on TV, TV turns on and ARC from it immediately "sees" the better speaker- the soundbar- is available and uses it. So AppleTV audio flows through HDMI to TV and from TV through HDMI to play on the soundbar. TV speakers never come into play.

Hypothetically, imagine a soundbar that uses bluetooth to connect in that same example. Now it needs a tiny bit of time for the bluetooth connection to be realized. What would probably happen. First TV Speakers would be seen as ONLY speakers available until bluetooth soundbar could be discovered and linked in. So you would have the same effect of TV speakers and then switching to this bluetooth soundbar.

What you have going on involves a little delay that is causing the effect. The delay is in the wireless connecting needing to be done each time between AppleTV and Homepods. Initial ARC "decisions" see no speaker other than your TV speaker at first so it assumes them, the ARC "communications" between TV and AppleTV "corrects" that assumption when AppleTV "decides" to use HomePod speakers instead for audio.

That 3 or 4 times effect is perplexing but it may be something like Apple finds one HomePod, ARC tries to use it, then Apple rediscovers HomePod #2 is also available, maybe- to ARC- temporarily releases HomePod #1 so it and #2 can sync up for stereo (which then leads back to TV speakers as ONLY speakers very briefly) and then reconnects the HomePod pair so then AppleTV overrides TV Speaker use a second time by "notifying" ARC that a pair of HomePods will handle AppleTV audio now. I'm less sure about this part but that's my best guess.

The bigger point: it's doubtful you will resolve this by leaning on ARC. For your setup, I probably cut ARC out of the equation and simply use the TV remote for TV on off, then AppleTV remote to control the rest. With ARC connections severed, TV speakers might technically be ON but you can turn volume down to ZERO to basically not use them. AppleTV will manage the relationship between it and those HomePods: video signal sent to TV and audio signal sent to HomePods.

Sorry I couldn't see a way to make ARC do what you want with your setup.

Right I have just tried turning my TV on first with the TV remote and none of my HDMI’s are flicking between connected and reconnected now…

so I think I have sorted the issue will keep doing that going forward and see if I run into issues again.

 

[HobeSoundDarryl]

Great my guess to an ideal order would be turn on AppleTV first to give it that bit of time to establish connections to HomePod(s). Then TV. But glad it is working the other way too.

If you really want to KILL the audio flicker scenario potential entirely, turn OFF ARC on your TV and AppleTV now. It won't be doing anything when you are using 2 remotes anyway. Essentially, you using 2 remotes are functioning as a biological version of ARC.

ARC has nothing to do with the relationship between AppleTV and HomePods. AppleTV will stilll search for and connect to HomePods with ARC turned off. If turned off on TV, there is never any confusion by TV to substitute it's own speaker if there is any kind of delay with AppleTV saying "No, I'm sending audio to Homepods, not to 'your' speakers." I think technically the TV speaker will be ON but you can always manually turn it down to zero volume once and it will hopefully leave it like that when you manually turn the TV on and off.