Audio run-on using HomePods with Apple TV?

[JulianL]

I've been researching using AirPlay speakers for MacOS system output and from my internet searches the situation seems to be that the latency will kill the gaming experience but when it comes to watching videos there aren't any lip-sync issues but the consequences of that are that there tends to be 1 to 2 seconds of buffering before a video stats playing and if you pause a video then the image pauses immediately but the audio continues for 1 to 2 seconds after the pause, presumably as the speaker plays out the rest of its buffered audio. This is what I'm referring to as "audio run-on".

I don't actually have any HomePods yet, I'm waiting (and waiting, and waiting, and waiting!) for the rumoured HomePod Mini hardware refresh before buying my first ever HomePod but I have just connected my stereo pair of Sonos One to my new MacBook Pro via AirPlay and confirmed the behaviour I described above. I don't game, I don't really mind the brief delay before a video starts, and I'm pretty surprised and delighted to see that I am getting no lip-sync issues whatsoever so the only issue that is a bit annoying is that audio run-on.

My research (internet searches) also suggested that quite a few people do use HomePods as the main speakers for their Apple TVs and report "no issues" so - purely out of curiosity for now - I'm wondering whether there is code in tvOS that fixes the audio run-on issue that I and others see in MacOS (I'm using 26.4.1). Can anyone using HomePods with their Apple TV confirm whether there is audio run-on when pausing playback or if both the audio and the video do stop immediately/simultaneously when you hit pause on the remote?

If pausing a video does work without audio run-on in tvOS I'm quite surprised that the software developers responsible for the MacOS audio code haven't spoken to the tvOS audio folks to see if they can adopt whatever tvOS has done to avoid audio run-on in MacOS. Maybe they have & there's some other complexities involved, or maybe this audio run-on is only a feature for non-Apple AirPlay devices such as Sonos and if I had HomePods connected to my MacBook I wouldn't see any audio run-on. I'm just trying to work out how much hope I should hold out for this one little niggle getting resolved at some point in the future because I'd really like to get rid of the hard-wired speakers I currently use for system output - less desk clutter, one less thing to plug in and fewer other wires would be nice simplifications for my home office setup given that I already have at least somewhat decent speakers on my desk anyway for music output so using those for system output would be nice.

 

[cynics]

My research (internet searches) also suggested that quite a few people do use HomePods as the main speakers for their Apple TVs and report "no issues" so - purely out of curiosity for now - I'm wondering whether there is code in tvOS that fixes the audio run-on issue that I and others see in MacOS (I'm using 26.4.1). Can anyone using HomePods with their Apple TV confirm whether there is audio run-on when pausing playback or if both the audio and the video do stop immediately/simultaneously when you hit pause on the remote?

It's generally the opposite, the video will delay/run on. However its only for a fraction of a second and sometimes is imperceivable.

Your Mac can actually do this nearly as well too.........

You have audio run on because you were mirroring your Macs audio, all of it. So if you play a video on the Mac it needs to decode the video and audio stream, transcode the audio and other sounds the Mac might be making than send it over wifi. The Airplay speaker than needs to decode this new stream and play it. Using your wifi precision timing protocols AirPlay establishes network latency between the Mac and Airplay speaker so they can sync.

Since this process has so many variables it takes an indeterminate amount of time it requires a buffer.

With the AppleTV you aren't mirroring the audio you are directly streaming it from the app (Netflix, Hulu, etc). The AppleTV decodes the video and audio stream. Than it sends the audio track directly to the AirPlay speaker that can immediately play it.

This process cuts out all the transcoding and decoding so it's much faster. Since the AppleTV is organizing this the video is sync'd to the audio so there is virtually no audio buffer.

Just think of it like two different things, AirPlay Mirroring and AirPlay Streaming.

If you don't want that audio run-on with the Mac you need to AirPlay stream the source content not mirror the Mac. Using Safari for example, open YouTube and play a video, click the AirPlay icon on the bottom right of the video and select your speaker. This will operate similarly to the AppleTV and greatly reduce run-on if not completely eliminate it.

This is one of those things where Apple trying to make something simple makes it complex again. But this is why bluetooth isn't an option, your local network is a requirement for time sync'ing plus BT is lossy.

 

[JulianL]

It's generally the opposite, the video will delay/run on. However its only for a fraction of a second and sometimes is imperceivable.

Your Mac can actually do this nearly as well too.........

You have audio run on because you were mirroring your Macs audio, all of it. So if you play a video on the Mac it needs to decode the video and audio stream, transcode the audio and other sounds the Mac might be making than send it over wifi. The Airplay speaker than needs to decode this new stream and play it. Using your wifi precision timing protocols AirPlay establishes network latency between the Mac and Airplay speaker so they can sync.

Since this process has so many variables it takes an indeterminate amount of time it requires a buffer.

With the AppleTV you aren't mirroring the audio you are directly streaming it from the app (Netflix, Hulu, etc). The AppleTV decodes the video and audio stream. Than it sends the audio track directly to the AirPlay speaker that can immediately play it.

This process cuts out all the transcoding and decoding so it's much faster. Since the AppleTV is organizing this the video is sync'd to the audio so there is virtually no audio buffer.

Just think of it like two different things, AirPlay Mirroring and AirPlay Streaming.

If you don't want that audio run-on with the Mac you need to AirPlay stream the source content not mirror the Mac. Using Safari for example, open YouTube and play a video, click the AirPlay icon on the bottom right of the video and select your speaker. This will operate similarly to the AppleTV and greatly reduce run-on if not completely eliminate it.

This is one of those things where Apple trying to make something simple makes it complex again. But this is why bluetooth isn't an option, your local network is a requirement for time sync'ing plus BT is lossy.

That is really helpful. Thank you cynics. It's really nice to also understand the reasons behind behaviour so thanks so much for taking the extra time to type all of that out so clearly.

Specific app/source streaming might well work for me, I'll give that a go.

 

[ignatius345]

Can anyone using HomePods with their Apple TV confirm whether there is audio run-on when pausing playback or if both the audio and the video do stop immediately/simultaneously when you hit pause on the remote?

I don’t think I’ve ever noticed any discrepancy between audio and video when pausing or resuming playback. It all just seems to happen simultaneously, though perhaps there’s some small level of latency that doesn’t hit the threshold for me noticing it.

I’m using 1st gen HomePods and the current Apple TV 4K device.

 

[chadamorrill]

Highly recommend pinching your pennies and getting the regular size Homepods instead of the Mini's. I have two sets of the current Mini's in the bedrooms for those TVs (mainly streaming TV shows and sports), but the main TV room was too large for the Mini's, and since we watch mostly movies in the main room, the Mini's didn't provide a full enough sound for me. Been extremely happy with the regular Homepods as TV speakers.

 

[JulianL]

Highly recommend pinching your pennies and getting the regular size Homepods instead of the Mini's. I have two sets of the current Mini's in the bedrooms for those TVs (mainly streaming TV shows and sports), but the main TV room was too large for the Mini's, and since we watch mostly movies in the main room, the Mini's didn't provide a full enough sound for me. Been extremely happy with the regular Homepods as TV speakers.

Thanks for the advice - assuming it was aimed at me; a few others have replied to my original post now.

That is actually 100% the way I'm thinking, it's just that I've been a long-time smart speaker user with devices in most rooms in my home, initially Google devices and currently Amazon devices, and while I'm seriously considering a move to Apple devices I want to evaluate the technology first before going all-in so the purchase of a single HomePod Mini will just be for my lowest-initial-investment test device and if it works out then yes, absolutely I will be getting full-sized HomePod stereo pairs for the places where one of their roles will be to play music. There are some rooms where I don't need music and the device is only for controlling lights and other simple voice commands so that initial HomePod Mini purchase will find a use somewhere in my setup assuming I do end up doing a complete switch to Apple devices.

Since I hear quite a few reports of phantom touches on the current generation HomePods plus the rumours that the next generation will have some audio improvements, and the fact that an upgraded S-Series chip might well be needed to get the best from the new Siri when it comes out I don't think there's any point wasting even £50/$50 on a second hand current generation HomePod mini running a version of Siri that I hope will soon turn out to be massively inferior to the next generation Siri so I'm waiting for the rumoured HomePod Mini update before jumping in.

From my experiences with Siri on my phone I'm pretty sure that even if I loved the current HomePod hardware I would be so profoundly disappointed by the voice assistant capabilities that my experiment would fail to convince me to switch from Alexa anyway (and Alexa isn't that great) so another reason why I am pretty much stuck in the waiting room for the rumoured updated HomePods and the new Siri.

I just hope that, after all this waiting, both the hardware and the software will deliver. I'm more confident about the hardware being good, for the updated Siri it's a case of "I'll believe it when I see it".

 

[JulianL]

It's generally the opposite, the video will delay/run on. However its only for a fraction of a second and sometimes is imperceivable.

Your Mac can actually do this nearly as well too.........

....

If you don't want that audio run-on with the Mac you need to AirPlay stream the source content not mirror the Mac. Using Safari for example, open YouTube and play a video, click the AirPlay icon on the bottom right of the video and select your speaker. This will operate similarly to the AppleTV and greatly reduce run-on if not completely eliminate it.

...

Just FYI I've now experimented with direct streaming of Safari YouTube videos to my Sonos Ones via AirPlay and it works perfectly - latency too low for me to perceive, pause and resume starts and stops both the audio and the video promptly and simultaneously, and lip-sync remains perfect. All in all a great result so thanks again for setting me on the right track.