I would not be terribly surprised if all the talk about what the HomePod is doing processing-wise is really overblown. I mean, I'm sure it's doing more than your average bear, but it's also true that PR is PR is PR, right?
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Audiophile Review: HomePod 'Sounds Better' Than $999 KEF X300A Digital Hi-Fi Speakers
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
I would not be terribly surprised if all the talk about what the HomePod is doing processing-wise is really overblown. I mean, I'm sure it's doing more than your average bear, but it's also true that PR is PR is PR, right?
Since you asked: http://www.dictionary.com/browse/audiophile
Obviously, as with everything, there are varying degrees of knowledge on the subject. Someone who thinks something sounds better because they spent $X amount of money is not an audiophile. The most honest audiophiles I know are perfectly happy letting others enjoy what sounds good to them.
It's definitely doing much more processing than a normal speaker/amp/dac combo would though because of the 12 tweeters going all the way around - most speakers have one that points forwards. To create the faux stereo from a mono speaker they're spreading stuff out amongst the tweeters and also the microphones are measuring the feedback to know how close it is to a wall (and thus where it's "front" most likely is)
But then of course if you use the EQ built into iTunes it doesn't battle it and try and make it sound the way it does originally.
Ha! I actually had this same rationale typed out in my previous comment, but deleted it before posting because I thought "well, maybe because it's altering at the source (iTunes) the HomePod is none the wiser and just thinks the EQ'd way is how it's supposed to sound".
This article has generated constructive and interesting discussion mostly generated by the use of the term 'Audiophile' which may have been used out of context.
At no time can such a healthy discussion be quoted as a "holy war" it is merely different individuals expressing an opinion to which they are quite entitled to as long it does not lead to insults or personal attack.
Someone just made a very good point on my other thread, all 7 tweeters are trapped inside a hard plastic shell. No wonder it sounds dark to me.
well we did a simple comparison. used The Knife's "Silent Shout, to test the bass and the range of sound. we have a pair of sonos 5's in the bedroom with a sonos sub and in the living rooms some floor standing well rated speakers that cost around 600 5 years ago and a 300 sub powered by a sonos amp. the homed and a B&O beoplay 1
the cheaper speakers powered by the sonos amp sound a bit better then the sonos 5's though the bass is not as good the sonos sub is pretty good. though not sure if you can fully compare since you have two different rooms. both blow away the small guys but that is not unexpected. the bass is deeper on the home pod then the B&o but a more real on the b&O and the B&O seemed clearer with better midrange. its not as room filling but it is a little guy. the hompod sounds better streaming video according to my wife. but i think she may return it and get a B&O airplay speaker. since she has bluetooth speakers having a airplay speaker is what she wants.
the cheaper speakers powered by the sonos amp sound a bit better then the sonos 5's though the bass is not as good the sonos sub is pretty good. though not sure if you can fully compare since you have two different rooms. both blow away the small guys but that is not unexpected. the bass is deeper on the home pod then the B&o but a more real on the b&O and the B&O seemed clearer with better midrange. its not as room filling but it is a little guy. the hompod sounds better streaming video according to my wife. but i think she may return it and get a B&O airplay speaker. since she has bluetooth speakers having a airplay speaker is what she wants.
Attachments
Last edited:
Overpriced speaker cables are an object of laughter and scorn in the audiophile world as well. Most of us know that any good old copper wire of sufficient thickness is perfectly adequate.
Personally, I like 14AWG speaker wire from Monoprice. $17 for 50 feet, can't beat it. =)
I'm an active reader (and semi-frequent participant) on a lot of "audiophile" communities on the web. Several subreddits, other forums, etc.
One thing I can tell you is that I don't know of a single place where somebody could seriously talk about speaker cable voodoo, or coloring one's CDs with a Sharpie. In every audiophile hobbyist haunt I know of, a person would be absolutely laughed right out of town if they believed any of that garbage.
There's no denying that those kinds of people exist, but they are truly the lunatic fringe.
The internet has actually been really awesome for the hobby. Fans can connect with each other and share objective knowledge. As opposed to thirty years ago, where all hobbyists really had were garbage audiophile magazines that promoted these myths in the first place.
The DIY "branch" of the audiophile hobby (people who build their own speakers, sometimes from kits) actually works somewhat like the open source software world. You have talented designers, publishing their designs to the public (usually for free!) and getting feedback from others that is rolled back into the designs. Magical voodoo audiophile thinking would NOT go far in such an environment.
Last edited:
I am thinking this might be where apple’s privacy first policy bites them in the rear. Their competitors presumably have free roam of customer data, the Siri team needs to ask permission from the privacy watchers at Apple for every idea they have. That is great - amazing - from a privacy standpoint, and I love Apple for it. But it sucks from an innovation and engineering standpoint.
Since when was 7 tweeters and a sub with audio beam forming considered "mono"?
Sounds like someone hasn't got any experience with the product.
...that fall into two categories: ones that require you to use a specific media player or web browser app that has the Airplay support built in, and ones that need you to 'root' your phone/tablet to install the equivalent of iOS's Airplay mirroring. Some Android devices have system-level Google Cast or Miracast or XioawaiCast (OK, I made that one up) facilities but it varies between devices (and probably isn't advertised on the box). Then if you start worrying about details like gapless playback (accepting gaps between tracks on, e.g. Dark Side of the Moon is the first step on the slippery slope towards playing it on shuffle - and then all hope will be lost) My point was not really that its impossible with Android and other OSs but that Apple get a lot closer to the "it just works (if all the devices are Apple)" ideal.
Well, the problem with Linux is that it is designed by people who like it hard - they're also hamstrung by lots of issues around US software patents, DMCA and their various international equivalents that sometimes mean that they have to throw up artificial hurdles for plausible deniability. Still, I've had various linux-based media servers over the years, and they're quite effective.
Going to jump in here too.. Im probably also in the "audiophile" category. (tube amps, weird stuff from Japan that im constantly fiddling with, etc)
I think the issue with the review, and what people are getting a bit out of control with, is what is the purpose of the HomePod? Its good sound in a variety of places, with no tweaking by the end user. Its not meant for critical listening. Its not meant for accurate listening. Its meant to sound nice. Its ok if it doesn't follow a flat response curve. Im sure its awesome for its pricepoint, and the voodoo DSP that it does, while might be shunned by some elitists, is perfectly fine in such an application. Ive different things set up all over my house. Some stuff is tweaked, properly calibrated, meant for a sit down listening session. Then there is other little units that are just meant to fill the room and sound pleasing enough. Both have their place for people who love music.
I think the issue with the review, and what people are getting a bit out of control with, is what is the purpose of the HomePod? Its good sound in a variety of places, with no tweaking by the end user. Its not meant for critical listening. Its not meant for accurate listening. Its meant to sound nice. Its ok if it doesn't follow a flat response curve. Im sure its awesome for its pricepoint, and the voodoo DSP that it does, while might be shunned by some elitists, is perfectly fine in such an application. Ive different things set up all over my house. Some stuff is tweaked, properly calibrated, meant for a sit down listening session. Then there is other little units that are just meant to fill the room and sound pleasing enough. Both have their place for people who love music.
Well, it sounds like the problem is on the Android side. Apple can't do anything about that.
And yes, listening to albums like DSotM on Shuffle IS the road to Anarchy and Sorrow, LOL! I remember when iTunes didn't support Gapless Playback, and BOY HOWDY was I glad when they figured THAT out!!!
Linux is GREAT... for Servers. But there is a REASON it will NEVER be "The Year of Linux on the Desktop"...
[doublepost=1518629072][/doublepost]
Exactly!
If your "audiophile"-grade preamp even HAS tone/EQ controls, it ISN'T truly "Audiophile" grade.
But something like the HomePod is allowed to (and apparently does!) pull every trick in the book in a desperate bid to "sound good".
And it apparently does. So, everyone needs to just take a deep breath (or deep hit), and sit back and enjoy the MUSIC...
[doublepost=1518636638][/doublepost]I am not a audiophile. However, I do listen to a lot of music. Amazing sound quality from a single speaker. Imagine what the algorithms can accomplish when they have 2x the number of speakers separated in space.
HomePod reviews from the tech press came thick and fast last week, and while the smart speaker's sound quality was consistently praised, most reviews were based on subjective assessments and didn't take into account professional-grade output measurements. Early on Monday, however, Reddit user WinterCharm posted exhaustive audio performance testing results for HomePod to the Reddit audiophile community.
Using specialized equipment and a controlled testing environment, the review features in-depth analysis of the smart speaker's output when compared to a pair of $999 KEF X300A digital hi-fi monitors, representing a "meticulously set up audiophile grade speaker versus a tiny little HomePod that claims to do room correction on its own".
As expected, WinterCharm criticized the HomePod for its AirPlay-only output limitation and Siri's often-lackluster performance as a virtual assistant, but the speaker's audio quality appraisal was a different story. Interested readers can check out all the details and technical minutiae here, but in short, WinterCharm offered the following summary after a battery of exhaustive tests.
Do you agree with WinterCharm's review? Let us know in the comments. And make sure to check out our HomePod roundup if you're new to HomePod or planning to purchase one -- it's got everything you need to know about HomePod along with a running list of our HomePod how tos.
Article Link: Audiophile Review: HomePod 'Sounds Better' Than $999 KEF X300A Digital Hi-Fi Speakers
I wasn't getting at Apple - quite the opposite, my original point was that although the HP is too locked-down for my tastes, its not like there's some mythical mix-and-match wonderland of seamlessly interoperable, non-proprietary wireless devices to choose from otherwise.
With great ability to tinker comes a great necessity to tinker.
To be fair, I remember when the meme was 'it will NEVER be "The Year of Unix on the Desktop"' - now (thanks to Jobs) you're using it!
Also - pedant point - Android and Chromebook are also Linux and, whatever you think of them, you can't deny that they are successful.
Actually, the way "Linux on the desktop" is happening is via web apps, frequently hosted by Linux backends.
NB: Rather than blowing £300 on a musical varnish-stripper I've been trying out RuneAudio on a "headless" Raspberry Pi hooked up to my existing HiFi - which wraps up the Music Player Daemon mpd (which can play music from a network share or USB stick) and an AirPlay audio receiver with a shiny web interface - even sports a Spotify client (haven't tried that) and a bunch of web radio sources.
Yeah the DAC is the weakest link in the chain from my humble experiments. Sort that out and even an average amp can yield surprisingly good results.
As for the thousands of words: barely any of them useful. It’s quite apparent the reviewers are well out of their league by the language they don’t use. I wouldn’t read wine reviews from a tech magazine either.
Since when is a 4" woofer (meant to reach up into the 2kHz range) a sub? Hey, I like this thing, but there's zero chance of it being mistaken for stereo sound. I get a better soundstage from a cheaper pair of Audioengine A2+s, and some actual separation.
I can show you my floor standers that have 5 different speakers, still mono. Speaker count means jack if you can't actually separate the two channels in a way for the listener to hear it.
My HomePod is ordered and should arrive this week. I managed to acquire at a sort of discount, using a half dozen of those $25 Apple Store gift cards. I'm definitely not an audiophile. My current sound system is 20 years old (a pair of Paradigm bookshelf speakers and subwoofer, placed into bookshelves in my den. Honestly, I don't know if I will invest in AppleMusic or choose to play my library of music through my iPhone, or play Pandora, etc. What I really like is that I will be able to take the speaker out on my deck in the summer, to the garage when wrenching on my bike, or keeping me company in the kitchen. I'm not interested in the Amazon/Google smart speaker format to help me spend more money shopping online.... but I can see why they are attractive to many. I'm guessing that Apple will develop Siri more fully with this device being just one of those that will begin to answer the questions asked of the Smart Speaker market. And, I hear the sound is really quite good for such a small speaker.
But surely you could have done the same with a Bose SoundLink Mini2 or Bose SoundLink Revolve for a lot less or similar price with better/more functionality.
If you're going to recommend other brands, why would you start with Bose lol.
Because it's a comparable device and because it IS another brand that offers an alternative at a similar or lower price-point. That's why. LOL...
So many better recommendations out there. UE, H/K, Klipsch, JBL, etc. I just think it’s funny that you wanted to crap on the HomePod, but Bose is the brand you chose to do it with, lmao.
I've decided not to stop thinking about this, and I'm obviously not as passionate about my decision as you. But, I appreciate your interest. Yes, other options out there. I live in a small community where it is difficult to try for side by side comparisons. I took a chance on the HomePod because of the current sound quality (based on reviews), and the potential that Apple will continue to improve Siri. And, as I mentioned, I used $150 in Apple Reward cards to offset the cost. I'll post a follow up after I get a chance to put it through its paces.
The Homepod sounds OK if you're deaf. Otherwise, it's as bad as most other computer type speakers on the market.
Having had the chance to compare one to a pair of the KEFs in the article leads one to the inevitable conclusion that the reviewer is deaf, or, at best, has significantly damaged hearing.
Having had the chance to compare one to a pair of the KEFs in the article leads one to the inevitable conclusion that the reviewer is deaf, or, at best, has significantly damaged hearing.