Australian Police Warn Against Use of Apple Maps Due to Safety Concerns

[Idefix]

the thing is, I know the guy who was responsible for it was fired, BUT how did it go under the radar for that long? the app wasn't designed in a day...

I'm sure there were MANY other people working on the app as well as beta testers. How the heck did none of them bring it up to Tim and say "this might not be ready for primetime."

It doesn't make sense.

Presumably Forstall used his clout to push it through. Hubris!

The real question is why Apple is allowing the disaster to continue? By now they could have simply given users access to the old Google Maps (for which Apple has a contract for most of another year, right?) and allowed users to choose which is default.

 

[dejo]

By now they could have simply given users access to the old Google Maps (for which Apple has a contract for most of another year, right?) and allowed users to choose which is default.

Perhaps it's not so simple.

 

[rix2000ss]

I'm sure all the literal geniuses Apple has working for them never thought basing their maps off another company's map database could possibly be the answer to their problem.

Obviously the literal geniuses did not figure it out before the product launch.

And yes I am arrogant enough to believe any one of us can make a difference. To not try is laziness.

 

[iphoneclassic]

Had a convo with my buddy about this just recently, here were his thoughts:

"Apple currently uses TomTom to supply their mapping information which is why it's so awful.

I used to work for Navteq (now a Nokia company), the company that used to supply google with map data before they took the operation in-house. We had vehicles on the ground continuously confirming the accuracy of map data provided to us by DOT's and local municipalities.

I know for a fact that TomTom does not confirm the raw data that they receive. They just regurgitate it and hope for the best."

So when the company is half assing things like TomTom apparently is, this is the result.

It is not TomTom/TeleAtlas fault. Even Nokia/Navteq will be in same situation.

Google has advanced search function built into the app. When you type a place it returns with search results, In this case search for Mildura would have two matches, allowing the user to select the correct one.

Maps has a string match function, pretty much at same intelligence level of any programming 101 freshmen's first string match program. It just returns a pin on the match it thinks the correct one, no option for user to correct.

Once these bad co-ordinates are fed into any Map/Navi software you end up in wrong place.

 

[skellener]

What a complete joke!!! As others have stated in this thread... Apple just sucks at internet services (besides iTunes).

iTunes is NOT an "internet service". It's simply a store that works in an app. Notice that it doesn't work in a browser. Apple has web pages for products from iTunes, but you can't buy anything there - it immediately launches the app for the store. They don't get it. An equivalent "service" would be the much rumored Spotify or Pandora killer. Notice that Apple hasn't done that yet. They tried to offer a sudo service for iTunes with "iTunes Match". Again, a poorly implemented service. Apple needs to just stay away from offering services. They always suck.

 

[henryhbk]

Common Sense

If it's life-threatening, definitely needs to be fixed ASAP. As said by someone above, it will be interesting to see how fast it gets fixed. I haven't seen any of my corrections sent to Apple updated in the maps yet.

Well it's only life threatening if you don't use your brain while driving. If you were driving on a road, and are now going across the wilderness, maybe, just maybe the GPS is wrong... Try stopping and going back...

I know it's crazy to suggest this on the internet, but you don't have to put your life into a technology's hands just because it's there; try acting independently. My Garmin sometimes gives me obviously wrong info on a location, and I use common sense. If it tells me to turn right into a guardrail, I don't actually take that right.

 

[SlCKB0Y]

Obviously the literal geniuses did not figure it out before the product launch.

And yes I am arrogant enough to believe any one of us can make a difference. To not try is laziness.

The problem is that they got programmers who didn't understand cartography. That's why the app itself is pretty damn good.... the data is the problem.

And its not arrogant to think you can make a difference...it might be overly optimistic though..

 

[xofruitcake]

the thing is, I know the guy who was responsible for it was fired, BUT how did it go under the radar for that long? the app wasn't designed in a day...

I'm sure there were MANY other people working on the app as well as beta testers. How the heck did none of them bring it up to Tim and say "this might not be ready for primetime."

It doesn't make sense.

I am pretty sure that the problem is known in the development organization very early on in the beta. But Forstall is the head of the organization and his assessment of whether the map is ready is what the rest of executive rely on. If you work in any big organization at all, you will understand this dynamic. It is the traditional divide and conquer organization model where a person are in charge of a pie of the company and they are tasked to make assessment and change if necessary to make sure his pie delivery what the company depend on.

A very simple example can illustrate the point: A group of friends trying to organize a surprise bday party. One of them was tasked to rent a ballroom. He failed to find anything within their budget but did not tell anyone about it.. At the end the surprise bdady party fail. And no one want to talk to that guy anymore.. Could the group do something differently? may be.. But looking back is easy.

 

[reefoid]

In many cases, yes, I suspect that advertising influences google routes given. It's not the only route offered but all too often what's listed as the #1/preferred route is not the best, or fastest, or one which would be taken by anyone who actually knows where he's going (but is doing a time/mileage check). You label such suspicion "paranoid"; however, I would suggest that anyone who hasn't considered that a company, whose business is wholly based on selling advertising, doesn't in any way let such advertising sales impact its maps routing, is naive to put it kindly.

And how, exactly, would Google make money from your, frankly, laughable hypothesis? Google makes money online when someone clicks on one of their sponsored links. How do they make money by routing you past a business?

I'd suggest that anybody who believes Google is doing this is also naive to put it kindly.

 

[SlCKB0Y]

Well it's only life threatening if you don't use your brain while driving. If you were driving on a road, and are now going across the wilderness, maybe, just maybe the GPS is wrong... Try stopping and going back...

Thanks for the advice Mr Boston. That whole area is "wilderness", they would have already been driving for hours and hours of nothingness before getting lost.

Those regional towns in Australia might have hundreds of kms between them which takes hours. The whole time is bush roads with nothing of note. That's normal when driving in rural Australia (which is the vast majority of it).

If someone was driving from Adelaide to Mildura, thats about 4-5 hours of driving through basically "wilderness". If they came from Melbourne, you're looking at about 6 hours of driving through "wilderness".

So thanks for your learned Harvard Medical School opinion of the ease at which these simpletons should have known the wrong wilderness from the right wilderness.

Sometimes there does exist a reality outside of the protected, cloistered and academic reality in which some of us live.

 

[BuckusToothnail]

the thing is, I know the guy who was responsible for it was fired, BUT how did it go under the radar for that long? the app wasn't designed in a day...

I'm sure there were MANY other people working on the app as well as beta testers. How the heck did none of them bring it up to Tim and say "this might not be ready for primetime."

It doesn't make sense.

That's because it WASN'T "under the radar" AT ALL.

Just read this thread on THIS SITE back in JUNE about Apple Maps in beta:

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1385928/

As you can see, the red flags were readily ABUNDANT prior to its release. And as you can ALSO see, the Apple apologists were in FULL FORCE making up excuses even back then, with "arguments" not dissimilar to what you'll read today even on THIS thread (i.e. Google Maps had problems at launch too, the more people use and report on it the better it'll get, it's working FINE for ME, etc.).

And of course, anyone actually being REALISTIC about the shortcomings of the app were ROUNDLY CRITICIZED with the most common sentiment being that "it's just a BETA, you don't understand what a beta is!!!!", etc. etc.

And to think Tim Cook had no idea about the issues of Apple Maps is being blissfully naive. I'm quite positive he knew EXACTLY what the shortcomings of Maps were.

It's absolutely ON HIM that he decided to release it ANYWAY and it's NOT a surprise that he took responsibility for it with his apology (even though as I mentioned before if he was GENUINELY sorry he would have withdrawn Apple Maps and re-instated Google Maps on iOS until Apple Maps was actually READY).

However, Scott Forstall was ABSOLUTELY made a SCAPEGOAT for the Maps debacle. He may have been in charge of its development, but the person who gave it a green light in its current state was Tim Cook. Tim Cook tried to save his OWN ass with the dismissal of Forstall, which is a telling reflection on the leader of the company, something that does NOT bode well for the future of Apple.

 

[bradgfromboo]

LMFAO... How the hell could Apple have screwed up this badly? It was one thing if they started from scratch - but they didn't, they bought and were given existing mapping information from Waze and TomTom...

Stuff will start to get real when Apple starts getting sued for "negligence". They have tons of cash - just go and pay a bunch of Chinese laborers to get it done - they'll have it more accurate than Google Maps in 24 hours for 10 cents an hour - sounds like a bargain.

For that matter - what's to stop Apple from just comparing their data to Google's data and just reconciling that way and correcting mistakes? Obviously it is "against the law". But just hire a bunch of people to search Google Maps for POI people send error reports for and search Apple Maps for the same POI's and fix the data. Pretty untraceable.

Are you recommending that Apple illegally harvest google's data to repair their own database? LOL please do ... When a disgruntled employee quits and turns them in it will be the end of them.

In case you did not know, what you are recommending is so illegal its not even funny...genius...

 

[ImageWrangler]

Geez, Apple Maps must be total poop outside the USA. This is hilarious.

As others noted, hardly outside the US. I could cite dozens of issues both in NYC and in Birmingham, Alabama, or my traveling down Route 81 between the two during Thanksgiving. The errors are many and serious at that. Apple Maps isn't even really in beta, it's in alpha, it's entirely not ready for primetime.

• It can't and/or has a hard time find addresses and/or common big businesses
• It confuses multiple (I mean, multiple) times numeric aves and streets i.e. confused an 8th Ave with 8th Street EVEN IF you drop a pin at the right location and say "map to..." it still gets it wrong.
• It blindly misses traffic jams unless you're right in a city.

I could go on.

My wife has an Android phone, thankfully, or we'd have been f'ed a bunch of times. All I have to say is COME ON GOOGLE, get your map app into the Apple Store and Apple best not block it because we need GOOD mapping not this joke you released. I rarely to never had any problems with Google Maps.

 

[SlCKB0Y]

For that matter - what's to stop Apple from just comparing their data to Google's data and just reconciling that way and correcting mistakes? Obviously it is "against the law". But just hire a bunch of people to search Google Maps for POI people send error reports for and search Apple Maps for the same POI's and fix the data. Pretty untraceable.

Not really. Google "map copyright trap". It's a very common mechanism used in cartography to detect copyright infringements.

 

[phillipduran]

When I was in the Army, we carried GPS's with us and one thing we taught was that a GPS is a supplement to having maps and knowing where you are. You never rely solely on the GPS, it will get you into trouble.

Have that map, know your routes and street names, know your points of interest or reference points before you go out somewhere where help is limited. It can keep you alive.

 

[mccldwll]

And how, exactly, would Google make money from your, frankly, laughable hypothesis? Google makes money online when someone clicks on one of their sponsored links. How do they make money by routing you past a business?

I'd suggest that anybody who believes Google is doing this is also naive to put it kindly.

Here's an example for anyone who believes ad sales have zero influence on google maps algorithms:
Go on google maps. Get directions from St. Louis, MO to Colorado Springs, CO. Now get directions from Kansas City, MO to Colorado Springs, CO. Compare and explain.

 

[NightFlight]

It honestly is shocking to see how many people are still defending the Maps disaster. Is Apple paying you to do this? It is an inferior product, no need to make excuses for a company that you aren't working for.

I am also tired of hearing people say how bad Google Maps was when it was released over seven years ago. Is that really an excuse? Apple partnered with a weak player in the field, with terrible data sets and this is the end result. It has nothing to do with who started first, Apple did NOT build this entire program from the ground up. The data set is what they partnered for.

Some people explained that Apple needs "crowd sourcing" to improve its Maps app.

Well, I have reported a wrong POI for ~10 times already and it's still there after a few months.

Same.

It still thinks the road that I work off of is a 4 way intersection with a traffic light. It was turned into an overpass over 10 years ago. It still thinks my house is 1/4 of a mile away from where it really is.

 

[The Bogeyman]

Am I the only person who thinks that to follow an electronic device blindly when your life could be endangered is just stupid? If you allow your satnav to lead you somewhere stupid, then frankly you deserve to get into difficulties!

Here's an idea for people- use the mapping by all means- but first consult a real actual paper map and have at least an idea of where you are going!

Seriously- I'm getting tired of people blaming others for their own inability to prepare adequately. I've used various satnavs for years and have never met a perfect one yet. I've always prepared properly by studying the map in advance and planning my route, using the satnav as a back-up and to check I'm going the right way. If you can't remember directions or have no sense of direction as some people do (we're all human) then set up waypoints along the way of your chosen route on your satnav and don't follow it blindly should it decide it wants to re-route you.

In short if you follow an electronic device blindly with no preparation, you deserve to get lost!

 

[reefoid]

Here's an example for anyone who believes ad sales have zero influence on google maps algorithms:
Go on google maps. Get directions from St. Louis, MO to Colorado Springs, CO. Now get directions from Kansas City, MO to Colorado Springs, CO. Compare and explain.

I don't live in the U.S. so this means nothing to me so please explain. The onus is on you to explain to us, you're the one that's come up with this weird idea.

 

[yakapo]

I don't understand how Apple could publicly apologize for the low quality of this product, but still continue to ship it. Now they have a situation on their hands.

I'm sorry we messed up. We could have just given you an ios update with good ol' google maps while we fixed it but we'd rather you just "switch" to android.

 

[VulchR]

A simple solution to the iOS Map app mess...

Offer a bounty in terms of iTunes or Apple Store credit for finding errors, documenting them with iOS photo's with GPS tags. Then actually act on the reported errors. Before everybody jumps on me for introducing an unworkable idea, in what way is Apple's current solution showing itself to be workable?

 

[yakapo]

Apple should really just stop. They have never delivered services well - and Maps is now one of the biggest embarrassments to date.

Whatever they are spending to do their own Maps - it still must have been cheaper to simply use Google's data. Even if Maps gets to the point that becomes usable, how long is Apple committed to the service? A few years? Five tops? Google is obviously in it for the long haul. Streetview? Where is it Apple? Do you think the Google self-driving car is simply for R&D??? Nope - eventually those autonomous cars will be all electric, driverless and will be grabbing updated Streetviews monthly if not weekly. Apple are you ready to compete on that level? I doubt it. Apple Maps will eventually go the way of Ping or Dot Mac and everyone will forget about it. It's just another poorly implemented Apple service that will see no follow through.

Apple, save some money, stop fighting Google and just work WITH them. The combination of Google data and services with Apple interface and design works so well. It's such a missed opportunity to make everything better. Stop fighting!

Best bipartisan post ever on macrumors.com.

 

[iphoneclassic]

In many cases, yes, I suspect that advertising influences google routes given. It's not the only route offered but all too often what's listed as the #1/preferred route is not the best, or fastest, or one which would be taken by anyone who actually knows where he's going (but is doing a time/mileage check). You label such suspicion "paranoid"; however, I would suggest that anyone who hasn't considered that a company, whose business is wholly based on selling advertising, doesn't in any way let such advertising sales impact its maps routing, is naive to put it kindly.

Maps/Navi vendors may advertise along your route, but I highly doubt they will suggest a route close to their sponsors.

BTW, You are not the only one claimed homestead on this B$ Mountain. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

 

[The Bulge]

Isn't it?

There is not mapping service on this planet offering you a 100% accuracy guarantee.

 

[camman564]

Wonder how many people actually used the "report a problem" feature to fix this one.

I had to use it once for a place that didn't exist in maps. It was there next time i checked.