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onemoreguitar

macrumors newbie
Sep 8, 2010
9
1
I DESPISE what Apple did with Final Cut "Pro" X, a quick search of my comments will support that statement, yet I completely agree with your statement.

After Apple killed off it's professional line of video post-production softwares I tried to switch to Media Composer 6. There is absolutely NO WAY in hell that piece of archaic garbage can cut it (no pun intended) even next to the old Final Cut Pro. I'd rather use fricking Lighworks. It is absolutely dreadful and counterproductive.

As for their statement that Avid MC is the most widely used NLE, it is complete Bull. The most used NLE currently on the market be it in TV or film is still the old Final Cut Pro, believe it or not.

Damn Apple, what have you done!?


I'll go with not. I challenge you to go through your movie collection and watch the last few lines of the credit roll on each movie. Let us all know what percentage of them say Avid down there somewhere. I'm bettin on a fairly high percentage believe it or not.

Avid is a professional application. It requires a professional to run it properly. It will do what you tell it to do. The trick is knowing what you actually want it to do and then being fluent enough in MC to accurately achieve that end. BTW, with Avid there is way more than one way to skin a cat. Avid allows you the flexibility to choose which one suits your production best.

As someone who works on MC for a living, I could not imagine using FCP to handle the many different formats, not to mention the sheer volume of media that I deal with on a daily basis. The only way I could see using FCP is if Avid, which has been on shaky ground for a while as a business, finally goes under and is bought by Apple with MC basically being spruced up a bit and rebranded as FCP. Given Avid's troubles as of late, I don't think that's out of the realm of possibility, although maybe not likely...who knows.
 

sillybilly

macrumors newbie
May 12, 2010
10
0
I
As for their statement that Avid MC is the most widely used NLE, it is complete Bull. The most used NLE currently on the market be it in TV or film is still the old Final Cut Pro, believe it or not.

This made me spit out my coffee! TROLL MUCH?
 

klemsaba

macrumors member
Dec 9, 2012
55
31
Two years ago our company switched from Media Composer 2.8.4 to Final Cut Pro. This was a complete 'sideways' move as far as features are concerned. But we had new MacPros that replaced our Windows boxes so overall life was good! I can't imagine how much MC 7 would blow away Final Cut Pro today and long for the days to return to AVID. We are still on FCP 7 and I'm not sure what we'll do in a couple of years.
 

SavaTom

macrumors newbie
Jun 28, 2013
1
0
There is only 1 real problem with ProTools 11.

The problem is that the new audio engine is such a quantum leap in technology and efficiency that they should have called it something else other than just "Pro Tools 11".

I dunno what they should have called it but ANYTHING would have been better than just "11".
 

barkmonster

macrumors 68020
Dec 3, 2001
2,134
15
Lancashire
I'm very annoyed at the amount of money I've wasted of Digidesign/Avid stuff just to use Pro Tools. I started with Pro Tools Free, noticed how awful the editing and mixing on every other DAW I'd ever used was in comparison and bought an Audiomedia III and Pro Tools LE 5, then had to ditch it to move to Mac OS X because Digidesign only offered an over priced upgrade to an 18 input Firewire interface with Pro Tools LE 7 so I bought an Mbox2 Pro for another £400 and ditched the perfectly working PCI card.

USB 2.0 for audio compared with a PCI card isn't ideal but then Pro Tools went native but I couldn't justify the expense of the upgrade.

Now it has features that less intuitive but more feature-rich DAWs like Logic Pro has, it seems worth the update price once various RTAS plug-ins are ported to 64bit AAX format. I managed to get Pro Tools LE 8.0.5 running under Mountain Lion as an experiment and it's fine but I think I'm waiting till I can afford to update to Reason 7 and Pro Tools 11 at the same time. No point in 50% of my DAW setup living in the past while the other half is lacking plug-ins that don't work in Pro Tools 11 yet.

What hefty investment. Glad I'm in the FCP-X Camp and the rest of Apple's Pro Tools.

Pass on this overpriced past.

Apple's Pro Tools?

You do know Pro Tools is a DAW. It doesn't mean PROfessional video editing TOOLS! :D

There is only 1 real problem with ProTools 11.

The problem is that the new audio engine is such a quantum leap in technology and efficiency that they should have called it something else other than just "Pro Tools 11".

I dunno what they should have called it but ANYTHING would have been better than just "11".

It could be a This Is Spinal Tap reference like their Eleven amp simulator interface/plug-in.
 
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reel2reel

macrumors 6502a
Jul 24, 2009
627
46
It sure would be nice if Avid would revise their clunky modal approach to editing.

What hefty investment. Glad I'm in the FCP-X Camp and the rest of Apple's Pro Tools.

Pass on this overpriced past.

You think $1000 is a "hefty" investment?? And you work in Video?? hahahahahaha

Doesn't mean you have to operate some convoluted application.

It sure does mean that if you're employed for an all-Avid post house. If you're actually an Editor by trade (and not just a hobbyist or independent) then knowing Avid is a big plus. Try to tell an all-Avid employer that you choose to use Final Cut X and see how far that gets you.
 

milo

macrumors 604
Sep 23, 2003
6,891
522
The problem is that the new audio engine is such a quantum leap in technology and efficiency

And assuming that's not just hype and actually is a big improvement in efficiency, the real reason for it being such a big jump is because PT's previous native processing was so bad, some of the least efficient in any DAW. Looks like a nice improvement, but many of the updates are finally bringing in features that other DAWs had years ago.
 

Digital Skunk

macrumors G3
Dec 23, 2006
8,097
923
In my imagination
I really wish Avid would offer a subscription in addition to their full priced model. Perhaps this may happen, for the longest time I didn't think they would open up their software to be used with other hardware interfaces besides their own. Maybe by the time PT15 comes out.

I would too. I cut in Avid now, but during the times i only got freelanced to work in it I didn't want to drop $2500 on a license. Lucky for me most of the post houses in Maryland cut in Avid.

Please, what takes 2 steps in Final Cut takes 10 steps in Avid. Avid has to have the least intuitive and most cumbersome interface ever.

No real cutter in their right mind would blame the tool for their mistakes or their inability to use it intuitively. Any interface problems you have are solely your own fault.

I went to school for Communication Technology & Media and graduated last year. We used both Avid & FCP7. Using Avid felt like I was stepping back 10 years compared to FCP7.

Then your school didn't prepare you well, or you didn't pay attention in class. My school uses Premiere and Avid MC4. During the first weeks of our entry level class, we went over the similarities and the differences with those two NLEs and nothing more. By midterms, kids were making their own choices in NLEs to finish their projects, but NO ONE said that Avid was this or that compared to the others . . . only different.

Now, the real headache from comments like these comes from your lack of knowledge in collaborative post environments, which as we all should know is where the professional world of post production has been and will continue to go. Last I checked no one . . . and I mean NO ONE has an end-to-end turnkey acquire --> full power broadcast solution other than Avid.

Say what you want about the software, but negate the facts.

FCPX, although still lacking some of the more advanced features of FCP7, is a major step forward. It's definitely usable but I agree if they update it to include all the features it's missing from FCP7, it will be awesome.

I agree, and I think Apple's main approach to this is to separate itself from the Premiere (which is trying to keep up with Avid) and MC/Symphony. Apple can't compete in the pro industry, and every update in hardware and software shows it. They do shine in the indie and hobbyist realm though, more so than the other two ever will, and that's where Apple wants to go and needs to stay.

What hefty investment. Glad I'm in the FCP-X Camp and the rest of Apple's Pro Tools.

Pass on this overpriced past.

Hefty is relative. And in the world of professional post production the NLE has always been the cheapest thing in your system. Tower = $7000 easy, Video Card = $2500, ISIS/Terrablock = $110,000 entry level. Broadcast monitor = $3500, deck = $4500 . . . . . $1000 is chicken **** by comparison. Some houses are looking to get 10 seats.

As I said to the poster above. You can lie to yourself all you want, but Avid is still at the top in terms of NLEs in professional post houses. There isn't a house in Maryland and D.C. right now that doesn't have an entire Avid building out with an ISIS, Interplay, Airspeed, Symphony, Nitris, Adrenaline, iNews, etc.

Discover, Sony, Renegade, Johns Hopkins, ABC 2 News, Fox 45, WJZ 13 (with some Premiere), I could go on. I've worked for some, been in all, and no one has any intentions on pulling out a system that works for a system that may be obsolete in 2 or three years.

The past? Total garbage.

This made me spit out my coffee! TROLL MUCH?

Exactly! It's like no one reads . . . . but then again, if you don't live and breath this stuff it's easy to get misled.

Doesn't mean you have to operate some convoluted application.

Personal opinion, and only representative of the end users' lack of experience. I am sure a good deal of the users that criticized FCPX finally sat down and learned the app, then started to appreciate it. I know because I was one of them.

Now, FCPX isn't total garbage, and I see it's merits, but as an editor I have to learn MOST of the NLEs, save for a few that no one in my area cuts with, like Smoke or Media 100 (if it's still around). I wouldn't use FCPX professional, mainly because no one is asking for experience in it and because Premiere Pro is really just as competitive yet gives users a UI and tools similar to Avid.

MC 7 and PT11 are welcomed additions. Glad to see they finally have 4k support, and ditched the requirement for Avid only hardware, even though I wouldn't want to use a 3rd party personally.
 

BrandoFiasco

macrumors member
Jan 28, 2011
90
2
Santa Monica, California
I was in the same situation. But after being forced to use Avid for the past two years, with the updates Avid has made, I can totally understand its strengths, and I would not want to go back to any version of FCP. Especially when working collaboratively, there are just things FCP cannot do that are easy in Avid. Avid, Photoshop and After Effects is all you need.

Give it time and learn to love the keyboard shortcuts. It may seem weird at first, but you will eventually learn why professionals love it so much!

Thanks guys, that makes me feel better. :)
 

Digital Skunk

macrumors G3
Dec 23, 2006
8,097
923
In my imagination
I'm with you on this one. I recently started working at a Post-Production house that only uses Avid and I just dont understand. Granted the media management is great but other than that, the interface and the tools just dont seem to operate...naturally, I guess you can say. I bounce around and have done work professionally using FCP7, Premiere and After Effects, but jumping into Avid....I feel like such a noob!

Don't worry about feeling like a noob. That comes with growth. If you step into a job and know how to do everything asked of you from day one because you've done it before over and over again then there is no upward progress.

You should've seen the students I taught when they first looked at any NLE. Most of them came from iMovie, some had experience in Premiere but quickly learned that they are noobs, and some came from FCPX and fought change vehemently, but eventually saw the benefits in all three.

Now, if you want to see a noob face, I'll send you a picture the next time I open Smoke.

Thanks guys, that makes me feel better. :)

You are on the right path as a professional editor.
 

zioxide

macrumors 603
Dec 11, 2006
5,737
3,726
There's a reason why Avid is the most widely used pro-level NLE in the world, and the choice of most high-end facilities.

Yeah, it's the same reason that Windows XP is still the most widely used operating system and the choice of many businesses. It's been around the longest and had a large install base before Final Cut even came around.

There is a steep learning curve, but I guarantee you that behind what looks like a clunky old-fashioned interface is a powerful and very fast application.

If you think that Avid needs ten steps to Final Cut's one or two, I suggest you jump on an Avid forum and start asking questions. There are many ways to achieve tasks in Avid, you just need to understand them.

Avid does take more steps than Final Cut. Why would I waste time trying to learn the backwards way to accomplish the same task in Avid when I can just go and do it in Final Cut?

No real cutter in their right mind would blame the tool for their mistakes or their inability to use it intuitively. Any interface problems you have are solely your own fault.

Lol whatever you say. The fact remains that Avid's interface is garbage. Open the application and it feels like 1997 punched you in the face. I haven't used in about 3 years, but I doubt they've made any changes to update it. But it was cumbersome, slow, and not intuitive at all. Maybe it's cause I learned on Final Cut first, but it was way more complicated to do the same thing in Avid as Final Cut.

Then your school didn't prepare you well, or you didn't pay attention in class. My school uses Premiere and Avid MC4. During the first weeks of our entry level class, we went over the similarities and the differences with those two NLEs and nothing more. By midterms, kids were making their own choices in NLEs to finish their projects, but NO ONE said that Avid was this or that compared to the others . . . only different.

Now, the real headache from comments like these comes from your lack of knowledge in collaborative post environments, which as we all should know is where the professional world of post production has been and will continue to go. Last I checked no one . . . and I mean NO ONE has an end-to-end turnkey acquire --> full power broadcast solution other than Avid.

I payed attention fine thank you. Just because that's how your professor taught doesn't make the way my professors taught any better or worse, it was just different. Saying "learn the keyboard shortcuts" doesn't change the fact that the interface is garbage. If the interface of a program is so unintuitive and complex that it takes forever to learn the backwards ass way to do something, it's not a good application, regardless of how many pros use it. Like I said, many businesses are still running on XP, but that doesn't make it good. The more time I spend wasting learning Avid's backwards methods for accomplishing the tasks I want to do, the less time I can spend working.

I know Avid's media management for large projects and broadcast work is better than FCP (and especially FCPX, the only thing I hate is the event thing, but the ease of use makes up for it), but that's about it. This doesn't affect me at all though, I don't work in high-end video production. I gave up wanting to work in television when the media went from journalism to being a video rehash of twitter rumors. That industry has gone to ****.

I agree, and I think Apple's main approach to this is to separate itself from the Premiere (which is trying to keep up with Avid) and MC/Symphony. Apple can't compete in the pro industry, and every update in hardware and software shows it. They do shine in the indie and hobbyist realm though, more so than the other two ever will, and that's where Apple wants to go and needs to stay.

You're right here. Apple's not building FCPX to take over the editing suites at Universal pictures. They tried with FCP6 and FCP7 to get into that part of the market but never really succeeded. Too many people in that part of the industry had too much invested in Avid to ever make the switch. This was pretty obvious when Apple decided to discontinue their XServe line.

Apple's got the right idea to target the lower-end professional, indie, and high-end "prosumer" market. FCPX blows all of the other NLEs out of the water for the things this segment of the market needs. They've added a lot since 10.0.0 but its still the first major version. The next major update will bring more refinements & features and will put it even further ahead. Finally, we have a NLE that uses a modern, intuitive interface.
 

Digital Skunk

macrumors G3
Dec 23, 2006
8,097
923
In my imagination
Yeah, it's the same reason that Windows XP is still the most widely used operating system and the choice of many businesses. It's been around the longest and had a large install base before Final Cut even came around.

True, but Avid started and still thrives on the Mac. It's just that the Mac started waning on the hardware side with the G5 chips, and since Avid, much like Adobe apps, is cross platform, many houses decided that it's okay to switch.

Avid does take more steps than Final Cut. Why would I waste time trying to learn the backwards way to accomplish the same task in Avid when I can just go and do it in Final Cut?

The problem is that YOU take more steps to do something in Avid than you would FCP. If you learned FCP first then great! When you work in shortcuts in Avid, doing even the simplest task is just a mouse move and click away, and the most advanced tasks, many of which FCP and Premiere can't even do, is just a mouse click and a shortcut away.

It will ALWAYS depend on the editor.

Lol whatever you say.

Yes, because most of what I've said are facts.

The fact remains that Avid's interface is garbage.

No, it's not, it's just YOUR opinion (and it's okay and understandable to have it). The industry, both high-end and indie says otherwise.

Open the application and it feels like 1997 punched you in the face.

That's like saying opening FCPX feels like iMovie punched you in the face. In the end, opening FCP even in the 4-7 editions felt like you were opening an app made for non-thinking editors. I always had to go back and tell FCP where I wanted to put my files and what I wanted my timeline settings at, and where I wanted to save my work, etc. etc.

I haven't used in about 3 years, but I doubt they've made any changes to update it.

Again, read.

But it was cumbersome, slow, and not intuitive at all.

Again, only for you and those that fail to learn the app. Smoke is the same way for me now, but I wouldn't call it a POS just because I don't know how to use it.

Maybe it's cause I learned on Final Cut first, but it was way more complicated to do the same thing in Avid as Final Cut.

Maybe, I learned Avid first, and when I got a take of FCP I liked it, but once I started trying to do simple things that were just a key stroke away I got a little angry. When I tried doing advanced things with keystrokes and mouse clicks it was just abysmal.

Now, it was easy to get started, slap something together and get it out. But after dealing with rendering issues, round-tripping issues, and EDL/XMP issues I decided that it was time to learn it, but stick with the industry standard.

I payed attention fine thank you. Just because that's how your professor taught doesn't make the way my professors taught any better or worse, it was just different.

It's not how my professors taught me, it is how I teach my students.

You're right here. Apple's not building FCPX to take over the editing suites at Universal pictures.

Or even indie post houses. Just folks that want an NLE that's a step above iMovie.

Too many people in that part of the industry had too much invested in Avid to ever make the switch. This was pretty obvious when Apple decided to discontinue their XServe line.

Not many folks where actually invested in Avid to that extent. Sure, many houses have Avid systems but they don't last forever, and when it comes upgrade time, the house has the ability to switch. Some did invest in FCP, FCP Server, Xserve RAIDs and Xserves. The real problem is that Apple didn't want to or couldn't invest in the R&D to compete, and didn't want to have to go through the pains that Avid went through providing an end to end solution.

Once Apple abandoned them, they had no choice but to move on or keep unsupported tech. The only solution for end to end? Avid. Now, if you're running a business, do you keep using a company that pretty much says we won't support your $250,000 investment? NO, you move on. That's where Adobe comes in; if you don't end an end-to-end solution but want an NLE that was developed from the group up as a pure Adobe/Avid program. Let's not forget, Apple is doing a fantastic job with FCPX, but it will forever be the editor that Apple bought from another company, tried to sell and couldn't, then decided to do something with.

Sure, FCPX works great as a boutique system or for folks at home, and definitely in a non collaborative, solo editor setup, but even when it comes to price Adobe is far better, and Avid is the standard. Students need . . . . NEED to learn to edit comfortably on all three.

Apple's got the right idea to target the lower-end professional, indie, and high-end "prosumer" market. FCPX blows all of the other NLEs out of the water for the things this segment of the market needs. They've added a lot since 10.0.0 but its still the first major version. The next major update will bring more refinements & features and will put it even further ahead. Finally, we have a NLE that uses a modern, intuitive interface.

Marketing mumbo jumbo. If the past decade has taught those that know anything, it's that Apple has never guaranteed us anything. I remember talking to users like you about FCP8's updates . . .they said the same thing, and look what we have.

When we were configuring servers for our ISIS admin computers, some wanted to go Xserve, and swore up and down that the new version was coming out and was going to be blazing fast . . . . . .
 
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rei101

macrumors 6502a
Dec 24, 2011
976
1
Final Cut is the direct competitor for Avid. FC is from Apple. This is an Apple forum. It has a lot to do..

Final Cut is not a competitor anymore. I work as a Production Manager for different cable stations. I manage the work flow in the post production facilities.

After Apple dropped Final Cut Pro for FCX, the way they did it and the lack of features, the industry just went back to Avid... period.

As a individual you can have many softwares in your computer, but when you are dealing with a board of directors and going over several thousand dollars in investments and your career and reputation... you do not play games, you play safe.

Avid is more expensive but it has been reliable, it has loads of features too and is an industry standard.

I like FCX, a lot, but is not any more for the industrial field. No one is going to edit a sopera or a tv serie with it, only promos and you can do that on Avid.

So, if you are using FCX and expecting to find a job in a production house or TV station, you are wasting your time. The people who has Final Cut pro will still use it until it runs out, in the mean time they are getting Avid and for audio Pro Tools.
 

Blu Reel

macrumors regular
May 31, 2011
108
53
Southern California
It's all about the money

Speaking of facts...

Let's remember that when Apple first released Final Cut Pro for a whopping $999, the only two existing video editing solutions were AVID's million dollar editing system used by all the professional houses and Adobe Premiere's consumer video app.

But as time went on, it became clear that people who invested the millions of dollars into their AVID systems were not going to simply abandon their investment and switch to Final Cut Pro. And financially speaking, rightly so.

What Final Cut Pro did was open up the professional editing market to a much broader audience by first creating competition where only a monopoly existed before and then setting the tone for future post production houses and independent editors. You don't need a million dollar system anymore to edit.

Avid Media Composer did not exist, yet. It was created to combat Final Cut Pro's dominating influence in this "new" market.

With Premiere CS6, Adobe finally became a real player in this market.

Now that "new" market has turned into the "old" market. Final Cut Pro is no longer viewed as the little David vs the big Goliath (AVID). But that's not the point of my topic here.

Instead, let's be clear why the majority of broadcast businesses are still pretty much working in AVID systems. They invested millions of dollars in AVID systems versus thousands of dollars in Final Cut Pro systems (even after all this time). As a business, you don't arbitrarily throw away millions of dollars.

If you don't believe me as to how broadcast business works in this regard, ask yourself why the FCC caved into the broadcast industry's collective will by downgrading the original FCC mandate of every broadcaster to broadcast in HD to just "simply" broadcasting in digital.

It's all about the cost of the gear or more precisely, how are they going to make their money back?

Conversely, speaking from a new small business perspective, given the choice of a long term investment in an editing system built by a company with massive amounts of money, but has made major mistakes since it's initial success or an editing system built by a company that has been the standard for many years, but has also been in the red for many years and manages to keep staving off bankruptcy, the financial decision is easy - not the company that's been in the red. The uncertain financial stability to me is the greater risk because I can always beat up on the company making mistakes, but I can't get support from a company that no longer exists.
 

rei101

macrumors 6502a
Dec 24, 2011
976
1
Please, what takes 2 steps in Final Cut takes 10 steps in Avid. Avid has to have the least intuitive and most cumbersome interface ever.

I went to school for Communication Technology & Media and graduated last year. We used both Avid & FCP7. Using Avid felt like I was stepping back 10 years compared to FCP7.

FCPX, although still lacking some of the more advanced features of FCP7, is a major step forward. It's definitely usable but I agree if they update it to include all the features it's missing from FCP7, it will be awesome.

One thing is the software and another one the industry, you just graduated, I graduated in 1998.

The problem was that Apple committed a huge mistake in finalizing Final Cut Pro and releasing FCX that was a completely different software. Apple lost the TRUST people had and behaved like a crazy lunatic that didn't listen.

Imagine tomorrow all gas stations start to sell hydrogen overnight and now you have to buy hydrogen based cars. Your current car will last with the fuel it has in the tank. That is what Apple literally did. Even they retracted, what they did was to sell fuel again but no more fuel based cars.

You as an individual can buy any software, but when you have 10 video suites you can not play games with your boss money. You play safe. And Avid has been consistent.

I use Final Cut Pro, I like FCX, I do not have Avid but I download it already because there are only positions for Avid. The same with Pro Tools.
 

patent10021

macrumors 68040
Apr 23, 2004
3,504
792
Sorry, iLok = no sale. Read about the latest iLok2|Pace debacle?

Yeah sure Avid wouldn't make a fuss over one person but they will once they start going out of business.

Anyway Logic X and/or their own business ethics will be that nail.

----------

Final Cut is not a competitor anymore. I work as a Production Manager for different cable stations. I manage the work flow in the post production facilities.
orly_bush.jpg


After Apple dropped Final Cut Pro for FCX, the way they did it and the lack of features, the industry just went back to Avid... period.

As a individual you can have many softwares in your computer, but when you are dealing with a board of directors and going over several thousand dollars in investments and your career and reputation... you do not play games, you play safe.
So dropping FCP in a matter of weeks is playing it safe right? More hyperbole.

I like FCX, a lot, but is not any more for the industrial field. No one is going to edit a sopera or a tv serie with it, only promos and you can do that on Avid.
More babble.

So, if you are using FCX and expecting to find a job in a production house or TV station, you are wasting your time. The people who has Final Cut pro will still use it until it runs out, in the mean time they are getting Avid and for audio Pro Tools.
There are plenty of FCP users on this forum with jobs in house using FCP.
 

rei101

macrumors 6502a
Dec 24, 2011
976
1
There are plenty of FCP users on this forum with jobs in house using FCP.

As I said: until it runs out.


You can read half of what I am typing but the reality is there. FCP won't be around anymore probably by the end of 2014 or mid 2015 top. Everybody will be in Avid.

Try to find a job in any web site like Craigslist or Indeed with FCX. There is none.

Again, companies have to buy hardware to go with the software and all the promos and shows they create they have to be able to open them 2 years from now. That is something Apple didn't consider with FCX, it was not compatible with FCP. Big mistake, companies won't fall into that.
 

DanPhillips

macrumors newbie
Sep 17, 2009
17
7
Let's not forget, Apple is doing a fantastic job with FCPX, but it will forever be the editor that Apple bought from another company, tried to sell and couldn't, then decided to do something with.

As a teacher, why don't you tell the class where Apple bought the entirely new FCPX. Not FCP (from Macromedia), but FCPX - which by all indications was developed entirely in-house and clearly shares little or no code with FCP.

In short: your bias is showing. We all have biases, that's fine.
 

DanPhillips

macrumors newbie
Sep 17, 2009
17
7
Try to find a job in any web site like Craigslist or Indeed with FCX. There is none.

I just did these searches, and found results. Perhaps the problem has less to do with Final Cut Pro X, and more to do with your search terms. :)
 

LethalWolfe

macrumors G3
Jan 11, 2002
9,370
124
Los Angeles
Avid does take more steps than Final Cut. Why would I waste time trying to learn the backwards way to accomplish the same task in Avid when I can just go and do it in Final Cut?

Maybe you would 'waste your time' because some workflows are faster in Avid so knowing both Avid and FCP would allow you to pick the best tool for the job? Go into some classes or online training videos with an open mind (i.e. forget you ever used any NLE before) and you shouldn't have a problem picking up Avid. There are certainly things that are faster/easier to do in FCP7 and there are certainly things that are faster/easier to do in Avid MC.

The first time I opened Color I didn't know where to begin and nothing made sense. I bought a good tutorial DVD and 4hrs later I understood the mechanics of the app. Of course Color is dead now and the first time I opened Resolve I lamented, "Ugh, why couldn't this look more like Color?" So I'm in the process of becoming as knowledgeable and fast on Resolve as I was on Color. Same thing when I first opened Motion. I'm not AE wiz but I know enough to bang around some basics but some things are just faster/more simple in Motion so I learned Motion even though every step of the way I longed for the familiarity of AE.

As far as NLE's go, I learned Avid first, then Premiere (old, pre-Pro premiere), then FCP. For the first time in ages I'm using Avid full time again (as opposed to FCP 7) and I'm keeping an eye on Premiere Pro as it seems most readily poised to be a FCP 7 replacement (that is until Adobe busted out CC and pissed off a lot of people). Smoke and Lightworks are also on my radar but I haven't kicked the tires on either of them. If/when the gigs I want start using FCPX I'll learn that too.

They tried with FCP6 and FCP7 to get into that part of the market but never really succeeded. Too many people in that part of the industry had too much invested in Avid to ever make the switch.

I disagree. I think FCP was making a lot of in roads into big 'hollywood' productions. Bunim/Murray Productions, a huge facility, switched from Avid to FCP6/7 (the went back to Avid when FCPX came out), major features were being cut w/FCP, FCP owned the documentary market, etc.,. I think Apple bailed because they saw vastly more growth potential in a different market segment and switched directions. As video shooting and editing becomes a new, everyday form of literacy there is a booming field of generalists that also edit which will greatly outnumber specialists that only edit and those generalists are FCPX's primary demographic, IMO.


Speaking of facts...

Let's remember that when Apple first released Final Cut Pro for a whopping $999, the only two existing video editing solutions were AVID's million dollar editing system used by all the professional houses and Adobe Premiere's consumer video app.
Many other pro NLE's existed back then (Media100, Discreet Edit, various Pinnacle NLEs, etc.,) and the old Premiere wasn't a consumer app anymore than FCP was. Premiere at the time owned the corporate/industrial, wedding and event segments of the market. Also Avid's systems were in the high 5, low six figure range. Much more than FCP or Premiere but definitely not a million bucks. You also have to take into consideration that even though FCP was only $999 you would still be spending about $15k total (on the short end) to build out a 'broadcast quality' cutting room. Again, still much cheaper than Avid but many times people compare the price of FCP itself against the cost of complete editing suite built around Avid.

Avid Media Composer did not exist, yet. It was created to combat Final Cut Pro's dominating influence in this "new" market.
Avid Media Composer has always existed (for a while there was also an Avid Film Composer which edited 24fps while Media Composer edited at 29.97). Avid released Xpress DV (and later Xpress Pro) as a lower cost, feature reduced version of Media Composer to take on FCP on the lower end of the market (they even had very feature limited, no-cost version called Free DV available for a while). The Xpress versions never really took off so they were eventually killed and Avid released Media Composer available as software only (no need to run it in conjunction with Avid's hardware) for the first time. The price was $5k I think.

Instead, let's be clear why the majority of broadcast businesses are still pretty much working in AVID systems. They invested millions of dollars in AVID systems versus thousands of dollars in Final Cut Pro systems (even after all this time). As a business, you don't arbitrarily throw away millions of dollars.
I agree that money, hardware and personal investment are all hurdles to switching platforms. I've worked at facilites that spent millions of dollars building workflows and infrastructure around the old FCP and they are still on FCP 7 as the try to figure out what other NLE will meet their needs and allow them to keep as much of their current infrastructure in place as possible.

There is also a very pragmatic approach by many that if it works, why fix it? I know some facilities that run on years old hardware and software but it works. They know all the pit falls to avoid, they know long various process take and they meet their deadlines so the only reason to change would just be for the sake of changing and that's not a very compelling reason. Some facilites are working year round so there's no 'off season' where they could shut everything down, switch out all the gear, and train everyone on the new systems.

If you don't believe me as to how broadcast business works in this regard, ask yourself why the FCC caved into the broadcast industry's collective will by downgrading the original FCC mandate of every broadcaster to broadcast in HD to just "simply" broadcasting in digital.
The mandate was always just a switch to digital, though it was a common misperception that it was a mandate to switch to HD. ATSC standards (which replaced NTSC) included SD. Forcing a switch only to HD wouldn't have made sense as 99.9% of the content would still be in SD.
 

Digital Skunk

macrumors G3
Dec 23, 2006
8,097
923
In my imagination
As a teacher, why don't you tell the class where Apple bought the entirely new FCPX. Not FCP (from Macromedia), but FCPX - which by all indications was developed entirely in-house and clearly shares little or no code with FCP.

In short: your bias is showing. We all have biases, that's fine.

Your ignorance is showing. Especially given that, as many here have said including me, no one in the high end market wants to invest in a product where the manufacturer totally re-writes the code and changes the UI and feature sets, leaving those from the previous version with no real upgrade path.

Apple may have bought FCP then tried to sell it, failed, then decided to keep it; but that didn't doom the application. Those versions were just fine, and held there own against Avid and Adobe. It's when they made that change that helped the pros, especially the ones that found little niggles in FCP7 that slowed them down, make the choice to move on.

Welcome to 2010. I'll wait for you to read a bit more to catch up.

No one here hated FCP1-7. Many, including me, don't hate FCPX. But, as I've said . . . .if you would just read instead of vomiting words out of your mouth, Avid is not some archaic app that gets trumped by a beefier version of iMovie; verified by some bloke who from what many can see hasn't gotten his/her feet wet in the post production industry.
 
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JM-Prod

Suspended
Apr 10, 2011
145
51
Avid does take more steps than Final Cut. Why would I waste time trying to learn the backwards way to accomplish the same task in Avid when I can just go and do it in Final Cut?

Eh? The only reason why you say this is because you don't know how to use Avid. Learn how to edit with your keyboard, and do an Avid course, and I can promise you that working in Avid is faster than FCP 7. More difficult to learn? Yes.

----------

Avid Media Composer did not exist, yet. It was created to combat Final Cut Pro's dominating influence in this "new" market.

????

First version of Media Composer was released in 1989.
 

Digital Skunk

macrumors G3
Dec 23, 2006
8,097
923
In my imagination
Eh? The only reason why you say this is because you don't know how to use Avid. Learn how to edit with your keyboard, and do an Avid course, and I can promise you that working in Avid is faster than FCP 7. More difficult to learn? Yes.

Now that's something I can get behind. MC5.5 . . . . for me anyway . . . is a bit harder to teach than Adobe Premiere. Most of the students that come into uni with skills come with Adobe, FCP (7 and X) and iMovie. They pick up Adobe extremely fast.
 

Music4Film

macrumors newbie
Sep 13, 2004
8
0
L.A., CA
Unfortunately for AVID though...their iLok USB copy protection dongle (which is managed by a completely different company called PACE) recently changed their software for authorization and cloud database, etc...and it has been locking people out of using their paid for programs...and erasing other authorizations on the iLok. Big time studios who use both Pro Tools and other plugins that use iLok protection have been locked out for weeks if they were unlucky enough to update their systems right away. Universal Pictures was having major problems.

If you use AVID stuff...you have to deal with iLok. And at this point...that is not looking good as PACE has proven itself to be a company with poor customer support and a cavalier attitude to helping the end user, because the end user is not their customer. AVID is.

Even folks who have bought and paid for the iLok "Zero Down Time" insurance have been down for a couple weeks. It is all a horrible joke at this point.

One can read about it more at the GearSlutz forums Music Computer section where most of the studio heads hang out.

http://www.gearspace.com/board/music-computers/844460-warning-do-not-install-new-ilok-software.html
 
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