Babies in Bars

[MarkCollette]

Simple solution: Let the market decide. Certain bars will find they get more business allowing families, and certain bars will find they lose business allowing in families. Single customers, and non-child couple, of different temperaments, will vote with their dollars. Eventually a new stable environment will exist, with some number of places that cater to families, some number that tolerate families, and some number that don't allow in minors. You don't need to complain online, just vote with your dollars.

 

[nava]

When i was in the States i was shocked to see kids in movie theaters watching rough movies, screaming, messing around and bothering the rest of the people too. Let alone bars or night clubs, what! Heck no! That would never happen in Finland. The age limits are there for reasons.

For the children's sake dont bring them to places that are not appropriate for kids.

 

[colourfastt]

I'd like to see kids banned from all restaurants.

Amen!!! You can't imagine the number of dirty looks I get from the hosts when I ask for the no children section.

 

[samiwas]

As others have said, places like Chili's and Olive Garden are fine. The neighborhood loud crazy sports bar is not. Asking other bar patrons to keep it down or asking the bartender to turn down the music? Give me a break. You are not entitled to define how the establishment operates.

I still think Atlanta has the best model...a restaurant or bar is allowed to decide for itself how it wants to operate. If it decides to be a family establishment at all, then there is no smoking of any kind ever allowed. Or a restaurant/bar can choose to limit it's clientele to over-18 or over-21, and also decide at that point whether they want to allow smoking. Either way, people who want a no-kid zone, or who want to smoke a pack an hour, or yell, or whatever...there is a place. And you KNOW you won't see a kid. The places that went no-kid are some of the most popular hangouts. And the bars that allow smoking are generally doing very well.

I think the worst I ever saw was this young couple bringing their child (maybe age 1) into a concert (a loud concert in a smoking venue) in his little carry thing. The child had no earplugs, as if that should make a difference anyway. The doorman would not allow them in, and they raised quite a fuss saying they always bring their baby to concerts...I think they even said something stupid like "he loves this band!". I could not believe it.

 

[yojitani]

I don't mind and have never minded kids in bars -- kids were a common sight at my local pub in the UK -- but I don't think parents should expect patrons to alter their behavior for them. If parents don't like the way certain clientele behave in front of their kids, then the parents shouldn't be there.

 

[Signal-11]

As others have said, places like Chili's and Olive Garden are fine. The neighborhood loud crazy sports bar is not. Asking other bar patrons to keep it down or asking the bartender to turn down the music? Give me a break. You are not entitled to define how the establishment operates.

Ah, horse puckey. As a paying customer, you have the right to ask. It's up to the establishment and collectively, the other patrons, to decide.

At the local joints where I am a regular (and/or know the owners/bartenders socially) and depending on the situation, I will ask the bartenders to turn up the music, turn down the music, change the music, turn off the music to jam with the bar's instruments instead, change the TV station, play Wii on non-Wii night, the carryout/delivery menus if the kitchen's closed, etc.

I wouldn't want to spend much time in a soulless, corporate, Buffalo Wild Wings/Chili's type joint or sports mega-bar where I wouldn't feel comfortable doing asking.

 

[marita]

Ah, horse puckey. As a paying customer, you have the right to ask. It's up to the establishment and collectively, the other patrons, to decide.

[snip]

I wouldn't want to spend much time in a soulless, corporate, Buffalo Wild Wings/Chili's type joint or sports mega-bar where I wouldn't feel comfortable doing asking.

I totally agree. Though if it's clearly, an adult oriented bar, I'd take my kids somewhere else, and not start asking everyone to stop being adults because my kids are there.

 

[samiwas]

I totally agree. Though if it's clearly, an adult oriented bar, I'd take my kids somewhere else, and not start asking everyone to stop being adults because my kids are there.

This is what I was referring to. I don't think someone has a right to bring their child into an adult-oriented bar and start asking the place to alter their behavior/atmosphere to suit their children. If you believe that's OK, you are a symptom of the problem.

 

[snberk103]

I'd like to see kids banned from all restaurants.

Q: At what age is it appropriate to bring children into a fine restaurant?
A: When they graduate from Law School.


Although, of course, there is a difference between fast-food and fine dining.

 

[Signal-11]

I see where you're coming from. The problem was idiocy on my end - I read the OP's post, but failed to notice that he linked to an article at the bottom.

Meh.

As a single guy with no kids (but doesn't mind them), I really have no dog in this fight.

I just think it's deliciously ironic when a bunch of people complain about the feelings of entitlement displayed by pushy parents and in their very next breath rattle on about not wanting children in "their" adult space, simply because they find kids annoying. Bunch of pots calling the kettles black, as far as I can tell.

 

[iBlue]

...

I just think it's deliciously ironic when a bunch of people complain about the feelings of entitlement displayed by pushy parents and in their very next breath rattle on about not wanting children in "their" adult space, simply because they find kids annoying. Bunch of pots calling the kettles black, as far as I can tell.

That didn't escape me either but I think it's a little like the indoor smoking ban. Smoking and children are a choice that can sometimes really inconvenience others in their choice not to want to be subjected to it. I don't think it's all that unreasonable for those who choose against to feel resentment when the choice to (smoke/have kids) is right there being a pest all up in our collective faces. Is the right to annoy more powerful than the right not to annoy?

I've never seen infants in a bar/pub before but I can't say I'd care much for that. Aside from being one of the most absurdly trashy things I've ever heard, it's rude. I hear screaming brats in restaurants often enough. Each time I can't believe the parents be so content with bothering an entire restaurant with their precious little choices. Very irritating.

 

[beatzfreak]

Ah, horse puckey. As a paying customer, you have the right to ask. It's up to the establishment and collectively, the other patrons, to decide.

At the local joints where I am a regular (and/or know the owners/bartenders socially) and depending on the situation, I will ask the bartenders to turn up the music, turn down the music, change the music, turn off the music to jam with the bar's instruments instead, change the TV station, play Wii on non-Wii night, the carryout/delivery menus if the kitchen's closed, etc.

So, do you cry like a baby and throw a temper tantrum when the bartender says no like some of these kids do?

I wouldn't want to spend much time in a soulless, corporate, Buffalo Wild Wings/Chili's type joint or sports mega-bar where I wouldn't feel comfortable doing asking.

We don't have any corporate establishments in Park Slope. It's all mom and pop. There are hundreds of places in the neighborhood that serve alcohol.

A few years ago, one of the bar owners had enough and banned strollers. He was raking up violations from the NYFD due to strollers blocking aisles. Bands performed there at night and it became a liability during load ins in the afternoon because kids were getting in the way. Oh and they couldn't do proper sound checks.
His liquor license was up for renewal and didn't want those violations or liabilities to hold up his license. The local community board decides who gets liquor licenses. There was a huge uproar from parents about the stroller ban, some are on the community board. Within a week, he reversed the stroller ban and was able to renew his liquor license. As I said, there are hundreds of places in the neighborhood, one bar stood up to the stroller mafia to no avail, so now every other restaurant/bar is afraid to make any policies that might offend these parents. So, no, it's not up to the bar owners when they have the stroller mafia practically blackmailing them.

 

[rdowns]

I hear screaming brats in restaurants often enough. Each time I can't believe the parents be so content with bothering an entire restaurant with their precious little choices. Very irritating.

Unless I'n in a casual dining place (Friday's etc.), I will ask to speak to the manager and voice my displeasure. I tell them I expect them to do something about it or I will never return as a customer. If they refuse, I'll leave.

 

[iBlue]

Unless I'n in a casual dining place (Friday's etc.), I will ask to speak to the manager and voice my displeasure. I tell them I expect them to do something about it or I will never return as a customer. If they refuse, I'll leave.

Mostly I've encountered this in casual places where I would feel out of place complaining (so I shoot off totally futile evil glares at the obnoxious parents). However, I was once in a rather upscale place when someone's toddler threw an absolute fit and the parents barely took notice of it. If I hadn't just finished my chocolate soufflé and had the bill in hand, I would have definitely complained just as you did. As it happens I think I made a snarky comment to the waiter when we paid the bill but that was it.

 

[rdowns]

Mostly I've encountered this in casual places where I would feel out of place complaining (so I shoot off totally futile evil glares at the obnoxious parents). However, I was once in a rather upscale place when someone's toddler threw an absolute fit and the parents barely took notice of it. If I hadn't just finished my chocolate soufflé and had the bill in hand, I would have definitely complained just as you did. As it happens I think I made a snarky comment to the waiter when we paid the bill but that was it.

If I'm in a casual place, I won't complain to a manager but will certainly say something to the parents. If your kid is crying or unruly, get the hell up and walk outside or go to the bathroom to calm your kid down.

 

[iBlue]

If I'm in a casual place, I won't complain to a manager but will certainly say something to the parents. If your kid is crying or unruly, get the hell up and walk outside or go to the bathroom to calm your kid down.

I love New Yorkers for this. I've become too soft living in Britain. Everyone just "politely" pretends the problems aren't happening instead of saying something. Tell you what, next time maybe I will say something. The last time I put up with this was last weekend in a Wagamama and I actually worked out that the reason this baby was screaming was because mummy dearest left it to sit in crap while she chatted with her friends. She took the baby to the bathroom and then the screaming magically ceased. Real nice.

 

[barkomatic]

A few years ago, one of the bar owners had enough and banned strollers. He was raking up violations from the NYFD due to strollers blocking aisles. Bands performed there at night and it became a liability during load ins in the afternoon because kids were getting in the way. Oh and they couldn't do proper sound checks.
His liquor license was up for renewal and didn't want those violations or liabilities to hold up his license. The local community board decides who gets liquor licenses. There was a huge uproar from parents about the stroller ban, some are on the community board. Within a week, he reversed the stroller ban and was able to renew his liquor license. As I said, there are hundreds of places in the neighborhood, one bar stood up to the stroller mafia to no avail, so now every other restaurant/bar is afraid to make any policies that might offend these parents. So, no, it's not up to the bar owners when they have the stroller mafia practically blackmailing them.

I didn't know these parents were on the community board that approves liquor licenses--that explains a lot. It look inevitable that the stroller mafia will expand to other bars in the neighborhood now that they are so empowered. Soon there will coloring books around and signs posted to please watch my language around the kiddies.

 

[Signal-11]

Seems to me that the problem most of you have isn't the presence of kids, but rather the presence of ill behaved, undisciplined and unruly kids.

Me, I can't stand loud frat boy/jock types. To me, they are much more offensive than any annoying kid could be. I will inevitably end up in a conflict with these jokers. I could complain about these idiots and how annoying and obnoxious they are but that doesn't really help. So I just don't spend a lot of time in traditional sports bars.

If the stroller brigade in hipster bars in 30 something hipster neighborhoods annoy you, then why do you continue going back?