Backup software - time machine or third party?

[BlueRevolution]

So with a bootable clone I can really do exactly the same as with time machine? just with more versatility and one complete backup.

No. A bootable clone is less versatile than Time Machine. Time Machine makes incremental backups, so you can restore to any of a number of revisions of a file, which a bootable clone only allows you access to one. Time Machine also makes it easier to restore individual files than a clone.

If you lose your system, you can use your system disk to restore to a Time Machine backup, which is essentially the same as cloning a SuperDuper backup. The difference is that Time Machine doesn't give you anything to boot to until the backup is restored.

Using a bootable clone with SD, can I have it setup to update the clone with the smart update to edit data changed?

Beats me, I don't use it. I prefer Time Machine.

And is this data still usable as data on an external drive?

Yes. That's the benefit of a cloned backup.

 

[Narcosynthesis]

I am just going round and round in circles...

The incrimental backup isn't really of too much interest to me, I will be running it on an external drive, so the drive will be plugged in and backed up after any big changes, then stored elsewhere - this will stop time machine doing the hourly/daily/weekly backups so I will only have the last major revision on file.

Working this way really removes a lot of the point of tm i guess, so in that case would it be a better option to run with an sd backup/bootable clone which I can just copy to the mac should a crash occur?
If I do need to restore from a clone, how easy is it? I know reloading from time machine is all done in teh setup when you install osx, is there an option to do the same from a clone as well as tm?

 

[Horst]

If I do need to restore from a clone, how easy is it? I know reloading from time machine is all done in teh setup when you install osx, is there an option to do the same from a clone as well as tm?

A clone allows for both; you can do a fresh install from the OS discs, and migrate all the data/ user files etc. during the installation process.

You can also boot from the clone, and use SuperDuper, CCC or Disk Utility Restore to clone the clone (...) to your computers harddrive.

Both of it is easy to do, cloning is faster, though.

Time Machine let's you go back in time, and use a backup made prior to a possible system or file corruption, with a clone you are stuck with what you have backed up on a certain date.

It really depends on your needs; I use several computers and mess around with HDD configurations and such a lot, so a (external) clone comes in handy.
I also travel a lot, so I take a clone of my main computer along with my MBP, to make sure I have all my recent stuff with me.
(Apple, where is that synching app, fcs ? )

 

[Narcosynthesis]

A clone allows for both; you can do a fresh install from the OS discs, and migrate all the data/ user files etc. during the installation process.

You can also boot from the clone, and use SuperDuper, CCC or Disk Utility Restore to clone the clone (...) to your computers harddrive.

Both of it is easy to do, cloning is faster, though.

Time Machine let's you go back in time, and use a backup made prior to a possible system or file corruption, with a clone you are stuck with what you have backed up on a certain date.

It really depends on your needs; I use several computers and mess around with HDD configurations and such a lot, so a (external) clone comes in handy.
I also travel a lot, so I take a clone of my main computer along with my MBP, to make sure I have all my recent stuff with me.
(Apple, where is that synching app, fcs ? )

Cool, I think that settles it for me - for the way I back up the data it would make sense to just run SD instead of trying to use a mix of two systems.

 

[AppleMatt]

any other opinions on the subject?

Yes. You seem to have cross-purposes. You've asked for backup advice but have now wandered into convenience of having a bootable backup drive. This is all fine and dandy until there is a fire at your house, or someone breaks in and steals all your stuff.

My advice would be: have a local backup for convenience, but also have a 'real' backup. I use Time Machine for local but others have recommended software that is well tried and tested, so have a look what would work for you here - they're all equally good suggestions depending on your needs.

Next, you want to look about 'really' backing up your data - that means regularly and off-site. I read a forum member here (I believe) who has a small portable hard-drive that he clones, and his wife leaves in her drawer at work. If there's a disaster at home he's protected. But...it requires diligence in doing it every week, there's a (short) period where all his backups are in one place and it's manual. The biggest problem however is the amount of work - potentially you could loose a weeks email/files/music etc.

I use Backblaze, so far it's worked excellently (although the System Preference pane is in beta and sometimes is slow to respond, but that should be fixed). It's cheap, works automatically in the background and the maximum you're going to loose is a matter of hours of work, at worst.
https://www.backblaze.com/

AppleMatt

 

[BlueRevolution]

My most important stuff is stored in my Dropbox. It works like Time Machine, storing bootable backups and allowing me access to past versions of files, but updates in real time and records the backups off-site on their server that is immediately synced with other computers and available online as well. It also comes with a public folder for sharing files with friends. The only files on my iBook are in my Dropbox, so I don't have to worry about maintaining a backup since any files I save there are automatically and immediately synced with the Dropbox server, with my iMac if it's running, and with my Time Machine backup the next time that is run. I think three backup copies of everything I do guarantees me a pretty good level of security. If my iBook is stolen, I don't have anything to worry about, even if I've done some important work since I last I was at my desk, writing a paper or something.

What some people do is maintain a bootable partition which is a full barebones install of Mac OS X with various utilities installed to help you troubleshoot issues. It's much smaller than a cloned backup, and removes the hassle of keeping the clone up to date. If they can't fix the issue and do need to blow everything away, the Time Machine backup is there.

 

[jamesdmc]

The best solution (if possible to implement) was suggested in the second post: use a combination of Time Machine and SuperDuper (or Carbon Copy Cloner). I just received one of these from OWC and I have this on order for Time Machine and this for SuperDuper. I'm going to configure the enclosure to see each drive individually and plug them in to the Mac Pro in my signature. Time Machine will do its incremental backups and I plan to set up SuperDuper to backup ~4 am every day. I should be set with that.

I was a little concerned about SuperDuper before buying it, so I used a spare 250 gig hard drive I had laying around and made a bootable backup right after I got my Mac Pro (before installing hardly anything other than the OS). After the backup was done, I removed the original 320 gig drive that came with the Mac Pro, put the backup in it's slot, and rebooted. It came up as if nothing had changed. All my concerns were immediately gone.

James

 

[Narcosynthesis]

Yes. You seem to have cross-purposes. You've asked for backup advice but have now wandered into convenience of having a bootable backup drive. This is all fine and dandy until there is a fire at your house, or someone breaks in and steals all your stuff.

My advice would be: have a local backup for convenience, but also have a 'real' backup. I use Time Machine for local but others have recommended software that is well tried and tested, so have a look what would work for you here - they're all equally good suggestions depending on your needs.

Next, you want to look about 'really' backing up your data - that means regularly and off-site. I read a forum member here (I believe) who has a small portable hard-drive that he clones, and his wife leaves in her drawer at work. If there's a disaster at home he's protected. But...it requires diligence in doing it every week, there's a (short) period where all his backups are in one place and it's manual. The biggest problem however is the amount of work - potentially you could loose a weeks email/files/music etc.

I use Backblaze, so far it's worked excellently (although the System Preference pane is in beta and sometimes is slow to respond, but that should be fixed). It's cheap, works automatically in the background and the maximum you're going to loose is a matter of hours of work, at worst.
https://www.backblaze.com/

AppleMatt

I took the bootable version as a slightly fancier version of just having my data backed up, so should something happen I still have all my data, plus a quick route to getting myself working again if needed. I will admit to getting distracted after discovering what else could be done beyond having the important data dual sited... (and hopefully ended up with a slightly superior system because of it)

The reason time machines regular backups (hourly/daily/weekly) are of little interest to me is the fact that my backup drive is kept separate from the computer - as a protection against problems like theft of the system, power surge or corruption, and also as some rudimentary protection against problems like fire (ideally the backup would be offsite, but that is current impractical, so it is kept in the house, but as removed and safe as possible)
Data is only/always backed up following any important changes - the main one being after the download of photos from the camera - so after downloading them, the whole lot gets backed up to the external drive for safe keeping.

I have SD setup now, and everything backed up and working.

 

[BlueRevolution]

Uh, you do know that Time Machine will only back up to an external drive, right?