Bad Karma or What.......?

Discussion in 'iMac' started by Eduardot, Sep 25, 2014.

  1. Eduardot macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    #1
    Suddenly my brand new 4 months of usage, an iMac late 2013 27 inch i5, stopped reading my external backup drive and it told me that it could not read it, so i proceded to reformat it, and then the mayor catastrophe, when I was around 20% of the backup completed, the iMac suddenly turned off and never came back on again. The genius told me that the worst thing that can happen to a mac is to turn off suddenly because the operating system files don't close properly and then we get the infamous white screen of death.
    So i lost all my data on the desktop and all of my backup because of the reformat.
    Is there any way to get that info back? Are iMacs so unreliable?

    Brand new mac loses all my data? Bad Karma or what.........
     
  2. leman macrumors 604

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2008
    #2
    Sorry, that is just bad luck :(

    That's why I have four time machine backups ;) And keep most important data on three different cloud servers.
     
  3. Roller macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2003
    #3
    I've had iMacs and others turn off suddenly many times for a variety of reasons (e.g., power failure) and never had significant data loss. Is yours an SSD, spinning disk, or Fusion? Also, if the data is of sufficient importance and value to you and there is no other solution, there are commercial data-recovery services that can help, though they're not cheap.
     
  4. macmacguy macrumors regular

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    Sep 25, 2014
    #4
    Nor fast :(
     
  5. Weaselboy Moderator

    Weaselboy

    Staff Member

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    Jan 23, 2005
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    #5
    I'm confused. So after this external drive froze, what happened then? Why did you reformat the internal disk?

    You have something going on here that is not normal.
     
  6. Eduardot thread starter macrumors member

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    Mar 30, 2013
    #6
    Bad Karma ..........

    i did not reformat the internal HDD the apple genius did it. When i got it back everything was normal, then i reinstalled the memory 204-pin PC3-12800 (1600 MHz) DDR3 SO-DIMM 4 8gig sticks that had been working without any problems since may 2014 the same month i got the new iMac, and the computer froze again and she i tried to restart it no go switched back to the memory it came with and also no go. So i am wondering is it the memory or is it another hardware problem. Im puzzled. The guys at the apple store only reinstall osx and every time i lose all my info.
     
  7. Weaselboy Moderator

    Weaselboy

    Staff Member

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    #7
    If it still does it with the original RAM back in there, I would say that eliminates RAM as the issue. Sounds like some other hardware issue going on here, and reformatting and reinstalling the OS is a waste of time and won't fix it IMO.

    Try running the Apple Hardware Test and see what that says.

    Either way, you are still under warranty and I would take it back to Apple for repair and insist they look at it further.
     
  8. Roller macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2003
    #8
    Apple will have to get you a working computer based on warranty coverage, but I'm still confused as to what happened.

    In your first post, you said that you reformatted your backup drive because the iMac wouldn't read it, and in the post quoted above you said that the Apple genius reformatted your internal drive. Is that correct? I don't understand why the genius would do that knowing that the internal drive contained the only copy of your data, unless they felt that the data was irretrievably lost, which is doubtful. Did they discuss that with your before reformatting the internal drive?
     
  9. Eduardot thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    #9
    nope they reformatted and installed osx telling me that they used another comp to try to retrieve the data in the imacs hdd and could not do it.
    So they fomatted the imacs drive and gave it back to me all my data lost.
    When i got it back i reinstalled the 32 gig of ram that had been previously working ok and after a while the computer hanged, no top or bottom menus just the mouse worked keyboard also froze. I turn it off reinstalled the original memory that came with it and it would also not turn on.

    So i am worried that it might be more than a ram problem. The hardware test they run at the apple store says all the hardware is ok and it warns of a software problem.

    This is my second imac giving me serious problems.
     
  10. negroswamy macrumors member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    #10
    man, that makes me nervous...a few weeks ago, there was a storm & my imac kept going out...then id turn it on...then it would go out...then i turned it on...

    we get occasional blackouts but never like this...speaking of karma, it really seemed like the PC gods were waiting for me to turn the imac back on just to put the power out again (otherwise, maybe the imac was part of the powercut?). cuz, after a few times (this seriously happened like 4 times in 1 night) i would wait until the power was on for like 5-10 mins before turning the imac back on...

    it could have been coincidence, but it seemed like after i turned it on & logged in, it was cool, but as soon as i did the "share screen" from another mac in a diff part of the house, the power cut again...

    finally i just waited until the morning. but of course, that was after the last flicker, so i could have prolly turned it on after that last one without a hard shutdown.

    but it was seriously like nails on a chalkboard everytime i heard that dreaded "power cut" noise coming from the imac. especially cuz my time machine silently does the hourly backups & i never know if its in the middle of one of those or not...or if thats dangerous...but thank god for those backups!

    i have it plugged into one of those (cheap-o) "surge protectors" thats really just like a power strip with that red on/off switch on it...is that good enough for situations like that or do i need to upgrade? its an important computer to all of my family members...
     
  11. AxoNeuron macrumors 65816

    AxoNeuron

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    Apr 22, 2012
    Location:
    The Left Coast
    #11
    That's tremendously bad luck. I have had an iMac for years and it has only suddenly powered off a single time, when I accidentally kicked the power cord out of the wall! I have always been afraid of something similar happening so I have two external hard drives that I use to backup my iMac.
     
  12. negroswamy macrumors member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    #12
    by having 2 external drives, u are mitigating the risk of a drive going bad, right? are they just both plugged directly into the mac and just do their hourly cycles at staggered times?

    also, do u feel it is ok to plug the imac into the wall without a "surge protector" or "power strip" or whatever the other protections are?
     
  13. AxoNeuron macrumors 65816

    AxoNeuron

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    Apr 22, 2012
    Location:
    The Left Coast
    #13
    I have one drive always plugged in to do hourly backups. The other drive gets plugged in maybe once a week or once a month depending on how much I've done on the computer, I want to have it plugged in as little as possible in case something that fries the computer also fries the drives connected to it.

    I would definitely suggest it. You can probably do just fine without it, but since surge protectors are so cheap I would not take the risk. It would be a shame to lose such an expensive computer to a lightning strike nearby.
     
  14. negroswamy macrumors member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    #14
    i like the backup system & that makes a lot of sense...i might have to do that, too.

    about the surge protector thing, i think the main point for the surge protector (cheap or not) IS to absorb those current spikes that might fry ur stuff...so i think plugging directly to the wall is one of the worst things to do, right?

    i am saying this because after the incident of the imac cutting out so many times during the storm, i looked up surge protectors on wiki. they even have a photo of the cheap power strip like i use on there...lemme know what u think...
     
  15. westom macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    #15
    First, sudden power offs must not harm any hardware or data. That was a problem over 20 years ago with obsoletely filesystems. Unfortunately, many only hear what is now a myth. Then assume it will always be true. Power off do not cause irrecoverable failures. But the myth is popular resulting in techs who assume power loss caused failure rather than first discover what has failed.

    Second, most failures are due to manufacturing defects. Apparently your drive was failing. Disk drive manufacturer's hardware diagnostic probably would have identified the problem. Then well proven software could have recovered most if not all data (based upon your descriptions).

    Third, heat is a diagnostic tool. Semiconductors are happy even in a 100 degree F room. However, hardware that is failing will often work in a 70 degree room and fail only at warmer temperatures. This causes many to assume heat is harmful. Good diagnostic procedure executes diagnostics at elevated temperatures to identify failures that will occur later at 70 degrees. This is especially true of memory.

    An even better diagnostic method is to heat individual sections with a air dryer on highest heat setting. Part that causes a diagnostic failure is one warmed by a hairdryer. Again, ideal temperatures for all properly working semiconductors are much higher temperatures. If you touch it and don't leave skin, the memory is at a temperature that it should still operate. Use heat as a diagnostic tool to find intermittently failing parts.
     
  16. QuantumLo0p macrumors 6502a

    QuantumLo0p

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    Apr 28, 2006
    Location:
    U.S.A.
    #16
    Ditto for two BU drives. I double backup my Mac and my Windows rig.
     
  17. vkd Suspended

    vkd

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2012
    #17
    Sounds like first thing to do is take all of your memory strips to some place where you can have them individually checked. Thus eliminating any problems there, if the defect remains you can safely point the finger at the iMac itself, take it back to Apple and ask them to repair it definitely.
     
  18. negroswamy macrumors member

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    Sep 15, 2014
    #18
    what about sudden power ONs (after power failures)? is that a myth too? please say yes...
     
  19. T'hain Esh Kelch macrumors 601

    T'hain Esh Kelch

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    Aug 5, 2001
    Location:
    Denmark
    #19
    "Sudden power ons" could mean bad electrical wirering - Or just that you have activated automatic reboot after power failures, in System Preferences.
     
  20. negroswamy macrumors member

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2014
    #20
    ah i see what ur saying...i thought that somehow that jolt of current would make it up to the computer somehow but as long as its off (no, i dont have automatic startup activated), it should be ok, correct?

    makes sense! thanks!
     
  21. Eduardot thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    #21
    Bad Karma?

    Two visits to the apple store and both times they give me back the imac with only osx installed and i have to reinstall whats left of my docs.
    Did some tryouts with apple hardware test and it told me that there was a ram problem, so currently im running only 24 gigs of ram the 8 that originally came with it and the 16 gig of Crucial ram that i bought at amazon. I contacted Crucial and sent them the memory sticks that are supposed to be giving the problems.
    Rare thing is that my imac worked flawless for 4 months with 32 gigs of ram before giving me all these problems.
    So i am waiting to see if the memory i;ve sent to crucial is really bad or its the imac that its giving me problems.
    I will post updates once i get the new 16 gigs of crucial ram installed.

    Thank you all for the posts and comments.
     
  22. westom macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2009
    #22
    Pressing the power switch is a sudden power on. Sudden power on also causes no damage. Sudden power on also occurs 120 times every second - called AC electricity.

    Circuits that make suddenly power off, sudden power on, and fast power cycling irrelevant are routine in all electronics. For example, some electronics include an in-rush current limiter. This restricts power during power on (ie creates a brownout) to even make electronics more robust. Since electronics (and not motorized appliances) love to be powered on during a brownout.

    Second feature is a lockout function that stops power on if fast power cycling occurs. This safety lockout feature is reset only by temporarily disconnecting a power cord from the wall receptacle. Both are examples of why so many fears exist because many do not learn what already exists.

    These design features exist because sudden power off, sudden power on, low voltage (brownout), and many other 'feared' anomalies must never cause damage. These anomalies are routinely made irrelevant by electronic designs that existed long before PCs existed.

    Concerns about suddenly power off or power on are classic examples of wild speculation. Nobody has posted facts that suggest either are harmful. But 'feelings' have justified fears. If an anomaly causes damage, then one can cite each 'at risk' component with numbers that say why. Too much 'protection' is done because urban myths often replace what was taught in junior high science.

    Normal is defective memory working just fine for weeks. And then start failing months later. Many reasons can explain this including infant mortality and overstress.

    A memory that worked just fine at 70 degrees F can also fail at 80 degrees F. Heat is a powerful diagnostic tool. That defective memory that worked at 70 degrees can be discovered (before its warranty expires) by operating it in a 100 degree F room or heating it with a hairdryer on high. Both are examples of ideal temperatures for semiconductors (read datasheets). Only fear due to 'feelings' worry that heat is hardware destructive. Temperatures must approach 350 degrees F to create semiconductor damage. Use heat to identify semiconductors that will fail hard in the future.

    Many see something fail when warmer. Then speculate that heat caused damage. If heat is so low as to not leave skin when touched, then it is not too hot. Heat is a powerful diagnostic tool. Use heat to identify defective parts that work normally at 70 degrees F. And that will fail months or years later at 70 degrees F. Use heat to identify existing and new memory as good. And to identify defective parts before a warranty expires.
     
  23. Eduardot thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2013
    #23
    Bad Karma? or What........ UPDATE.

    Had posted problems with memory with my 27 i5 late 2013 iMac, after having 32 gigs of Ram working flawlessly for 4 months, it started giving boot errors and then non boot errors. Apple hardware test found problems with two sticks of memory that i replaced new, not refurbished or exchanged.
    The iMac has been working withouth any hitches since. Being it though that I have had it with 32 gigs of Ram again since barely 4 hours again.
    Let's hope we don't get any problems again, and wishing that the problems mentioned were secondary to ailing memory sticks and not the iMac.

    Be Well, Stay safe. And to all You Gurus here in MacRumors, Thank You for your input and solutions.

    :apple::cool:
     

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