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I would love to get a 13in MBA to complement my Vaio TT, but a C2D cpu with a nvidia 320m gpu with only 256mb of shared ram isn't appealing to me. Now if it had a 1gb of non-shared ram or the 320m with a better newer cpu I would for sure get one. An extra ram slot would be nice, so would the option for a matte screen. I could save my cash for the Vaio Z(I hear I can get one for $1650 new for a base, which is fine for me), and would love to get one, but making OSX fully work is a bit more work than I like. I already have a windows machine, and I like the MBA because it runs OSX easily and is compact.

If Apple wants better performance and lower power usage, why didn't they go with the ATI gpu, like something like the switchable 5350 combo(with an integrated ATI gpu)? I know the 13in Acer TimelineX is getting something like 8-9 hours with the full i5 cpu(not LV or ULV) and switchable ATI 5670 combo.
 
It is one of my fondest wishes that the refreshed MBA will have two RAM slots. If that happens, I'll probably buy one, despite just having bought an iPad. But if the refreshed MBA is limited to no more than 4Gb of RAM, instead of the present 2, the iPad, limited though it is, will have to be it for me for awhile.

So 256 MB of RAM in the iPad is sufficient, but 2 GB of RAM in the MBA is insufficient?

The problem here is if the user can move from an MBA to an iPad, then they didn't need 2 GB of RAM in the MBA to make it useful.

The MBA is a real computer used not just for observation as in iPad, but more importantly for input of data or creation of materials, WORK. Without an MBA, and solely an iPad, the user cannot work just look at pretty pictures, play games, or pay for the same content as is free on the MBA.

Seriously, you're looking at this picture wrong if you're okay with the iPad and its 256 MB of RAM, but you're not willing to pay for an MBA unless it has 4 GB of RAM. You don't need an MBA if what you can do can be done on the iPad. Bottom line, the iPad is not a creation tool. If you're only using the MBA for observation, you're wasting your money... buy an iPad for $499 and be done with it!
 
I would love to get a 13in MBA to complement my Vaio TT, but a C2D cpu with a nvidia 320m gpu with only 256mb of shared ram isn't appealing to me. Now if it had a 1gb of non-shared ram or the 320m with a better newer cpu I would for sure get one. An extra ram slot would be nice, so would the option for a matte screen. I could save my cash for the Vaio Z(I hear I can get one for $1650 new for a base, which is fine for me), and would love to get one, but making OSX fully work is a bit more work than I like. I already have a windows machine, and I like the MBA because it runs OSX easily and is compact.

If Apple wants better performance and lower power usage, why didn't they go with the ATI gpu, like something like the switchable 5350 combo(with an integrated ATI gpu)? I know the 13in Acer TimelineX is getting something like 8-9 hours with the full i5 cpu(not LV or ULV) and switchable ATI 5670 combo.

Agreed. But a lot of this is more appealing as a tech/geek "number" than real usage requirements. I remember reading about the actual VRAM used by most apps, games, and etc. It is very rare that more than 256 MB of VRAM is successfully used especially by any app most Mac users are using. In addition, 512 MB of VRAM shows about 8% improvement in speed in the very most VRAM intensive games. One GB of VRAM is even less useful... meaning the ROI for the cost of the VRAM is a waste.

However, the MBA right now would be a lot better if it had 256 MB of VRAM dedicated and another 2 GB of system RAM. Don't get me wrong, 2 GB is insufficient either way, but I see a problem with Windows 7 and OS X running at the same time without enough RAM to run the BARE MINIMUM amounts of system RAM of 1 GB per OS.

We all wish the MBA could accept a dedicated graphics card, along with 1 GB of VRAM, but would we really use it? I doubt it. How about 256 MB of dedicated RAM and 4 GB of system RAM... absolutely a lot more useful. If a dedicated card will not fit in the MBA, there is no point beating the issue. The thing is, let's have SJ tell us if that's the point... we know dedicated would fit in the 13" MBP, but we also know Apple uses one chipset/GPU across all 13" Mac notebooks and the iMac 21" and Mac mini that use the same chipsets. So it all comes down to one product that works across all of its Macs that use the smaller chipset/form factors.

I believe the problem we're all having is that we're not getting even HALF of what we're paying for. And Apple looks at this as an opportunity to sell us something that they don't have to pay for because we're not going to use it anyways. So let's say Apple cannot successfully implement a dedicated card within the TDP of the entire system... a real possibility especially with a Low Voltage card. If Apple switched to the ultra low voltage Arrandale CPUs we would lose a lot in total system performance. We would drop down to a 1.2 GHz CPU. Is that a real solution? I don't think so.

I believe the other problem we're all having is we all want progress. We all remember exactly what the MBA was when introduced in October 2008... it was the best ultraportable and beat every competitor in every single feature. Now, competitors can beat the MBA at every single feature. We want Apple to update it to provide us with the competitive advantage in our MBAs over every bit of the competition, and we want our money to be worth it for a new MBA. Apple is disappointing us, and let's face it the iPhone OS has killed Apple's care for the Mac. Even if Apple still wants to make the Mac a success, Apple and Jobs are so much more focused on the iPhone OS products that it leaves little time to give a damn about the Mac let alone the MBA.

I never thought I would say this, but I believe Apple should just go back to being a Mac computer company. Perhaps Apple would be better off to split itself into two companies or at least two very differently focused and completely split divisions with their own goals and strategies focusing on how each does individually with almost zero cross-platform workers, managers, and executives... one Mac OS X computer company and one consumer electronics company. Seriously, I am not joking here. If we had two Apple companies, we would still get the servicing and competition from the Mac computers on one side without interfering or taking from the iPhone OS products. The biggest proof that this is the problem is the factual reporting that Apple has dedicated nearly its entire workforce in terms of engineers, programmers, and etc, into working on iPhone OS products to ensure their success. OS X 10.7 has been put on the backburner, and it's completely obvious that the Pro Mac users have been put on the backburner too. Apple and Jobs have forgotten that the Mac users built this company and more importantly the branding, and Jobs has completely failed the Mac users time and time again ever since introducing his ***** iPhone OS.

In addition, the LUXURY competitive advantage of Macs are quickly going away. Forget about the professionals for a minute... how about the luxury of owning a Mac like the MBA... the competitors have all caught up. Luxury is the super thinness of the MBA, the backlit keyboard, the LED backlit display, the aluminum case that looks cool, the lightweight form factor yet full display and keyboard, and even mini display port to drive a 30" ACD. All of these features are quickly becoming available on other ultraportables. In addition, all of the competitive advantages of OS X are gone. Perhaps Apple has given up on the computer market? It just wants to sell low-end products that appeal to consumers. What happened to all of the BTO options on Macs? The MBA has NONE. MBPs have fewer and fewer.

Either way, us Mac users are going to have to adjust or migrate over to competitive products like Sony offers. I suspect other brands will successfully challenge in these luxury markets. There are a lot of people willing to spend a lot of money to get the computers and components we want. It doesn't matter if we don't use all of those components capabilities, when we're paying Apple thousands of dollars for Macs we expect exactly what we're paying for... the advantage! These advantages are all of the little things like backlit keyboard, and all of the big things like CPU, graphics, and BluRay. The advantages are much greater on a computer like Sony's Vaio Z, and that's why Apple has gone so wrong! Apple used to have all of the advantages, but it's quickly losing all of those advantages.
 
So 256 MB of RAM in the iPad is sufficient, but 2 GB of RAM in the MBA is insufficient?

The problem here is if the user can move from an MBA to an iPad, then they didn't need 2 GB of RAM in the MBA to make it useful.

The MBA is a real computer used not just for observation as in iPad, but more importantly for input of data or creation of materials, WORK. Without an MBA, and solely an iPad, the user cannot work just look at pretty pictures, play games, or pay for the same content as is free on the MBA.

Seriously, you're looking at this picture wrong if you're okay with the iPad and its 256 MB of RAM, but you're not willing to pay for an MBA unless it has 4 GB of RAM. You don't need an MBA if what you can do can be done on the iPad. Bottom line, the iPad is not a creation tool. If you're only using the MBA for observation, you're wasting your money... buy an iPad for $499 and be done with it!
Here is what led to my decision to buy an iPad instead of the current model MBA. The iPad cost less than $500 and will handle quick and dirty Web browsing and email reading and occasional posting almost as well, and in some ways more conveniently, than the current MBA, which costs a minimum of nearly $1,500. I am frankly surprised that what to me, at least, was such an obvious decision is so hard for you to understand. My interest in the MBA is dependent on it being able to run Fusion and Windows in Unity mode, just as I do now on my MBP, which has 6Gb of RAM. I think you will concede that the current MBA can't do that. By the way, I explained all this in other threads -- more than once.

I've said this before but, apparently, I need to say it again: The iPad is not a real computer, whereas the MBA is. Nevertheless, the iPad does what it does in a small, convenient package. I like it and bought it because I thought, correctly, it could adequately do the casual tasks I needed it for, while my MBA continued to do the heavy lifting. When the MBA can do that kind of heavy lifting, I'll be interested on one. Until then, not so much.
 
Well while everyone was bitching about the MBA not getting updated :apple: just made 250 Million in revenue from iPad sales... I think they have their priorities straight :rolleyes:

AAPL below $100 was a steal :D
 
I agree with you Scottsdale on every point you said. I'm not sure how much FCE uses in gpu ram, but I guess its not that much. What would be cool would be 4gb of ram, with 256 of dedicated(separate ram) for the gpu, and then you could use some of that 4gb of ram to give you more vram when needed. You don't think it is possible that Apple could upgrade or give some models the GT320m gpu, while the base models have the integrated 320m model? I guess Apple is pushing some geeky and pro users to go the hackintosh route, with custom built PC's and laptops that are OSX compatible so to speak, but either cost less, are smaller, or give more for the buck. I know that what I kind of want to do as the 13in MBP is average, and lack of updated MBA announcement.

Apple @ 100 was a steal also btw.
 
Well while everyone was bitching about the MBA not getting updated :apple: just made 250 Million in revenue from iPad sales... I think they have their priorities straight :rolleyes:

AAPL below $100 was a steal :D

I own my AAPL portfolio at approximately $86. It was a bargain back then, and now the estimation is $300 per share. I don't know about that, but I agree the iPad gives Apple sales right now. The problem is, in the long run, Apple was built on the brand of the Mac. Right now, Apple is giving its long lasting incredible fans a big F.U.! Whatever happened to loyalty to the people that built your company and pay ridiculous sums of money for overpriced and inferior computers just because they run OS X.

I am worried about the long term value of AAPL when I say this. Apple Inc. just screwed over its Mac users AGAIN. It will continue to do such because it no longer wants to be a computer company. Apple wants to be a consumer electronics company now, and what happens if it loses massive iPhone OS share to an Android that runs Flash and is provided on better hardware with more RAM, faster CPUs, and etc?

The whole thing here is Apple should be building the Apple brand by catering to BOTH its Mac loyal fan base AND its newfound success in the smartphone OS business. There is no reason to alienate its loyal long-term customers to develop iPhone OS products. Google can beat Apple at the smartphone OS market, it's possible. I am not saying it will be easy, but it can provide a better OS as it's more flexible and it doesn't constantly screw over its developers and change the rules. Google cannot beat Apple at Mac OS X, so why not at least keep the same great advantage there while also pursuing the smartphone OS industry. The iPad is great, but don't screw over the loyal long-term customers that made AAPL shares this valuable and more importantly the Apple brand value so amazing.
 
I agree with you Scottsdale on every point you said. I'm not sure how much FCE uses in gpu ram, but I guess its not that much. What would be cool would be 4gb of ram, with 256 of dedicated(separate ram) for the gpu, and then you could use some of that 4gb of ram to give you more vram when needed. You don't think it is possible that Apple could upgrade or give some models the GT320m gpu, while the base models have the integrated 320m model? I guess Apple is pushing some geeky and pro users to go the hackintosh route, with custom built PC's and laptops that are OSX compatible so to speak, but either cost less, are smaller, or give more for the buck. I know that what I kind of want to do as the 13in MBP is average, and lack of updated MBA announcement.

Apple @ 100 was a steal also btw.

No, I wish Apple could make two possibilities for the GPU, but that's not how an integrated graphics system works. About the best Apple could do is solder 256 MB of RAM to the board added to the system memory, then use a RAM slot(s) so when a RAM DIMM is inserted the first 256 MB which is used by the GPU would be there... but it would really just add 256 MB to the system RAM. So a 4 GB RAM DIMM would really be 4GB + 256MB of system RAM. That way we could have the full 4 GB of RAM for system performance.

Apple is so damned CHEAP when it comes to RAM. It cannot even put more than 256 MB of RAM in its iPad. I would gladly pay double or triple for an iPad with an ARM Cortex 9 CPU and 1 GB of RAM or more. But that's not the consumer electronics way. Remember here, Apple wants to be a consumer electronics company. These companies don't advertise or brag about CPUs and RAM in their products... that is where Apple wants to take its Macs. Then, it will truly succeed at screwing people over without them knowing it - but they don't like to say it or think about it like that. How many people do you know that know there's only 128 MB of RAM in their iPhone 3G while there's 256 MB of RAM in an iPhone 3GS. Same thing with the iPad... if they have to sell extra RAM, then they FAILED. But that's what I want... I want to pay more money for the fastest and absolutely best of everything, but that's not consumer electronics THAT is COMPUTERS! Apple isn't a computer company anymore.
 
I think it is not Apple's fault for not updating the cpu this time around. Intel hasn't given them a worthy successor to the Sl9xx line with 17W TDP. The only arrandales with 17W TDP max out at 1.2 ghz wich is a joke.
The i7 LM wich would be great for the air comes with a 25W TDP and the GFX and i think its exactly that GFX that is stopping Apple from putting that processor in the MBA an selling it for $1500.
On the other hand there isn't any faster sl9xxx to upgrade to since they top out at the current 2.13 used in the Air. So in that sense Apple is stuck.
But on the other hand nothing stops them from putting 4 GB of RAM as standard and upgrading trackpad and screen and maybe the graphics chip. Maybe intel will prepare them a unique solution as they did back in 2008 and give them a custom i7 chip with a 17W TDP and around 2.0 GHZ clock speed. I guess we shall wait and see. Hope its not too long...
 
I think it is not Apple's fault for not updating the cpu this time around. Intel hasn't given them a worthy successor to the Sl9xx line with 17W TDP. The only arrandales with 17W TDP max out at 1.2 ghz wich is a joke.
The i7 LM wich would be great for the air comes with a 25W TDP and the GFX and i think its exactly that GFX that is stopping Apple from putting that processor in the MBA an selling it for $1500.
On the other hand there isn't any faster sl9xxx to upgrade to since they top out at the current 2.13 used in the Air. So in that sense Apple is stuck.
But on the other hand nothing stops them from putting 4 GB of RAM as standard and upgrading trackpad and screen and maybe the graphics chip. Maybe intel will prepare them a unique solution as they did back in 2008 and give them a custom i7 chip with a 17W TDP and around 2.0 GHZ clock speed. I guess we shall wait and see. Hope its not too long...

Well, the official replacement for the SL9x00 CPUs are the Core i7-6x0LM low voltage CPUs. Yes they are 25w TDP, but they include the graphics/chipset which is 4w savings over the current SL9x00 plus Nvidia 9400m. The problem is, as you stated, the graphics tied to that Intel Core i7 CPU series. Steve Jobs said their logic when he replied about the 13" MBP. Apple was able to get 80% better performance in graphics over the 9400m. In addition, the 9400m is 100% faster than the Arrandale GMA IGP (or GMA IGP is 50% as fast as the Nvidia 9400m). Apple obviously is saying they couldn't use a dedicated card, probably not because there wasn't enough space for it and cooling it in the 13" MBP but that Apple will use one logicboard/chipset strategy across its entire line of 13" mobility boards (MB, 13" MBP, MBA, Mac mini, and 21.5" iMac).

I think Intel's Core i7 replacement for the SL9x00 is amazing. It runs at a real 2.13 GHz while the MBA's CPU normally runs at 1.6 GHz or even 800 MHz. While the Core i7 can boost up to 2.93 GHz. If that isn't a hell of an upgrade in the CPU, I don't know what is. So let's assume that Apple isn't shorting us on the dedicated card over money, but that Apple truly cannot get both a Core i7-6x0LM and a dedicated Nvidia 310m in an MBA... what is the better choice for us? I truly believe Apple can give us a 30% upgrade in CPU performance from the exact same SL9x00 CPUs. It will reduce the throttling. The energy savings will come by the Nvidia 320m GPU/chipset using 35% less TDP (8w instead of 12w). We will be at 17W SL9x00 plus 8W Nvidia 320m. That is the same as a Core i7-6x0LM with sole use of the Intel GMA IGP.

I think we're better off with a C2D SL9x00 with less throttling and an Nvidia 320m than an Intel Core i7-6x0LM with only GMA IGP. Of course, we all want the Intel Core i7-6x0LM and a dedicated graphics card, but we're not going to get it as is obvious because Apple wouldn't even give it to a 13" MBP. So, of the two options, we're much better of with C2D SL9x00 and Nvidia 320m. I don't think the problem is a bad chip by Intel, but rather Nvidia having no license to make a chipset for the Nehalem Arrandale CPUs. Apple is probably going to change course at some point and switch from Intel to its own chips. Intel is playing bully with Nvidia because Nvidia beats the crap out of Intel when it comes to integrated GPUs/chipsets. Apple is stuck with the situation, and Apple can only get C2D CPUs until the end of the year. At the end of 2010, the Intel roadmap shows ceasing of production of ALL C2D CPUs.

I wonder if Apple could have used an Intel Core i7-6x0UM ultra low voltage CPU with a dedicated card, but those chips run at 1.2 GHz and boost to around 2 GHz. I don't believe that is much different than the SL9x00 CPUs are truly performing at most of the time, BUT try marketing a 1.2 GHz CPU as somehow better than the 2.13 GHz CPUs you have been selling since June of 2009!

The longer we wait for an update, the more likely Apple will be forced to switch over to a successor to C2D, AMD, or ARM chip.
 
The whole thing here is Apple should be building the Apple brand by catering to BOTH its Mac loyal fan base AND its newfound success in the smartphone OS business.

No arguing that point, but would I argue that we're the vocal minority in a sea of relatively happy customers. They've done one thing fantastically well and that's build an image that they sell, it's become less and less about the equipment (not that it ever really was I suppose) but more about the perception of owning a mac. I mean just look at how people on the forum describe their computers? We talk about them as the 09 or 08 models! They've effectively made computers cars now and can market the same crap each year with little to no updates. The vast majority of people no longer compare features or specs on computers they compare years, :apple: led the way in this and it's brilliant from a brand perspective.

The longer we wait for an update, the more likely Apple will be forced to switch over to a successor to C2D, AMD, or ARM chip.

I doubt they'd switch their chip architecture back to ARM or RISC based processors. They just spent a ton of time and money to get to 10.6 and pissed off all the old PPC users. A move like that would piss off their growing base. At best this move would be YEARS out.
 
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