Bank of America Starts Offering ATM Withdrawals Using Apple Pay

[macs4nw]

It isn't a 'geeky gimmick' if you can use your fingerprint instead of entering a PIN, in the UK we have had a lot of issues with cards being skimmed and cloned at cash points, maybe it's a world wide problem. I was saying last week that if we didn't have to put a card in or enter a PIN it would have a huge impact on fraud as it would be near impossible to clone cards.

Cards are not the solution, I would happily go without cards, I use Apple Pay for around 50% of all transactions now and would happily use it for all others. I don't do this because it's geeky, cool or saves time (although it's quicker to pay for an item with Apple Pay than it is with a card) I do it for the increased security. I've had cards cloned twice in the last 5 years, one was at a cashpoint and one at a petrol station. If nobody touches or even sees my card then they can't clone it.

We also have issues with some organisations using some rather underhand tactics to link cards to people. I don't use loyalty cards, I don't feel the rewards are worth worrying about and I don't like the junk mail or spam that follows them. However recently my partner paid for something in a large UK supermarket using her card, a few days later got an email with offers connected to the purchase. The only time she had given an email address to that supermarket is when doing some online shopping, and she used the same card. So what they've done is take the card details and linked them to he email address, then when she purchased in store connected it to her email address. I don't think that's quite riht personally, I'm not worried about being watched, I'm just worried how much information people have and what they may do with it.

If the store took Apple Pay they wouldn't be able to link the purchases, it's anonymous, just the way it should be unless we decided to have one of their loyalty cards.

Back to the cashpoint machines, they really need to take the next steps and allow people to not use their PIN, that would really increase security and reduce fraud and theft. A universal solution is also essential, hopefully that won't be too far behind.

The above linking scenarios, though not keeping me awake at night, are troublesome. Precisely why so many people like the privacy aspect of ApplePay.

 

[Zoboomafoo]

I love the concept but they need to figure out how to make it "universal." For example, I use Fidelity Investments as my "bank" since it allows me to use any ATM fee-free, not just one particular bank's ATM. Under the current implementation, I can't use ApplePay, which is a shame b/c it's not only more convenient, it's safer and more secure for both parties.

They don't have to figure it out at all. Basically what they've done is offer (arguably) a better experience for people who bank with BoA. Maybe it'll get you to ditch Fidelity for BoA. If not you, someone else? There are lots of ways to look at it, but they just need to find good business justification to support non-BoA customers. Brand exposure? I dunno.

 

[kdarling]

They are apparently making a distinction between simply supporting NFC, and supporting Apple Pay. Does this mean that the TouchID component of Apple Pay will replace the need to enter a PIN? Or is this similar to a merchant placing an Apple Pay logo next to the NFC reader at the check-out?

I didn't see any distinction being made between NFC and Apple Pay on the part of BofA. Heck, I don't even see AP mentioned at all on the BA announcement page. The distinction seems to be the usual Apple website emphasis instead.

Also nope, TouchId does not replace the need for a PIN. Visa and MC have long said that PINs will stay necessary for ATM withdrawals as an extra security measure.

It isn't a 'geeky gimmick' if you can use your fingerprint instead of entering a PIN, in the UK we have had a lot of issues with cards being skimmed and cloned at cash points, maybe it's a world wide problem. I was saying last week that if we didn't have to put a card in or enter a PIN it would have a huge impact on fraud as it would be near impossible to clone cards.

Fingerprints don't stop card cloning. Nor does the transaction being contactless.

What stops card cloning is using a token (which is not secret, btw, since it's sent every time) instead of the real account number... but only if there's also a secret crypto key installed on the phone that is NEVER sent out. Any EMV token based payment method will have this, including Apple Pay.

The above linking scenarios, though not keeping me awake at night, are troublesome. Precisely why so many people like the privacy aspect of ApplePay.

Many of us have spent a lifetime getting local stores and restaurants to know us by name, so we get personalized service and favors. I mean, good grief, the local pharmacy knows much more personal stuff about my family than anyone else does

 

[macs4nw]

.....Many of us have spent a lifetime getting local stores and restaurants to know us by name, so we get personalized service and favors. I mean, good grief, the local pharmacy knows much more personal stuff about my family than anyone else does

True, but I would still rather have at least some say in who gets what information, rather than companies, without our direct knowledge, arbitrarily building up customer info Data bases from whatever channels they can glean info from, even though I realize that is a common and routine practice these days.

 

[Chupa Chupa]

They don't have to figure it out at all. Basically what they've done is offer (arguably) a better experience for people who bank with BoA. Maybe it'll get you to ditch Fidelity for BoA. If not you, someone else? There are lots of ways to look at it, but they just need to find good business justification to support non-BoA customers. Brand exposure? I dunno.

No, I'm not buying that.

1. Switching banks is a major PITA. No one is going to do that JUST to use ApplePay at an ATM
2. BoA doesn't have a patent here. Other banks, as the article stated, are planning or looking at adding ApplePay to their ATMs.
3. ApplePay for banks is a lot about security. ATMs are one of the most insecure devices around thanks to old fashioned magnetic strips and PIN# that a savvy thief can easily record the user entering are why. So getting users to login with ApplePay is to the bank's benefit no matter where the user banks.

 

[ignatius345]

There will always be people who prefer to travel half way across town to the bank just so they can carry fist-fulls of cash everywhere they go.

"Halfway across town to the bank"? Come on, you do realize there are ATMs in places other than banks, right? Even when I find myself in the suburbs, I can usually find an in-network ATM within a mile, if not less.

And yeah, it just makes sense, if you're an adult, to carry normal paper money on you. It's easier in a lot of situations and frankly it saves money for whoever is on the receiving end of that payment. Instead of some bank skimming a percentage off the top, it all goes to them. I would love to start seeing cash discounts at businesses.

 

[MillieWales]

The above linking scenarios, though not keeping me awake at night, are troublesome. Precisely why so many people like the privacy aspect of ApplePay.

I agree, we didn't lose sleep over it, but we were at first surprised and then a little annoyed. It just seems underhand. They may think they are helping, doing something good for us, but I don't see it like that and I'm wondering where it can go next.

 

[mwd25]

Pulling out an iPhone, then getting a fistful of cash sure seems like a tempting target for a grab & run thief.
This is worse than using a card from a safety point of view.

A-pay replacing an ATM card is a geeky gimmick. A solution looking for a problem.
& the ole argument that someone then won't have to pull out their wallet to grab their ATM card is silly. Where ya gunna put the cash?
An ATM card is a much more elegant solution.

Problem is,you are defining the reason it is useful and then claiming how that particular use is a gimmick and not useful at all. Well, because the one use you cite for it is lame doesnt mean there are multiple other very useful ways to use it.
I have my lady's debit card stored in my Apple Pay and vice versa. Prior to this, if I wanted her to stop by a store and get me something, I would first need to know I want her to do that ahead of time and second, give her my debit card to use.......which I can then not have to use myself. Now she can just go to atm and use her phone to get cash. That is a major convenience. Since a lot of stores currently dont take Apple pay, its great to be able to get cash at atm now.

 

[mlody]

Today, I used the ApplePay at ATM station for the first time. I was pretty disappointed to find out that PIN is still required, but otherwise, nice experience.

 

[Robert.Walter]

Note: TouchID via an app /= ApplePay.

Good first step but ... Seems optimized to increase security and reduce physical CAPEX for banks at the expense of convenience and security for customers.

If it's "take photo of a QR-code" with an app, or wake app on phone via BT or NFC, and subsequent authentication via Touch ID in iPhone and PIN entry on the ATM, it's not really Apple Pay.

Although it is an improvement of sorts over inserting a card, typing a pin and defining transaction, it is lousy compared to the alternative. It may be slower than a card approach for many users and result in more exposure for customer as they go thru a number of fiddly steps.

This process could be vastly streamlined and made safer for the customer (less time at ATM by:
1) allowing customer to prepare transaction prior to facing terminal (like in car), and
2) upgrading the terminals to include NFC antennae that allow customers to present prepared transaction on device and to authenticate, grab cash and run.