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I'm thankful I live in country that allows us to make comments like this.

I mean, so do I. And I live in a backward country. And the same goes for all people living in much more democratic countries than mine, like Canada or EU. Americans have no clue how people live elsewhere.

Also, we’ll see how long you’ll be allowed to say things like this against tzar Trump.
 
Bingo. Globalization and "free" trade was an exchange of the American worker for corporate profits/greed. The decimated small towns across America are the casualties of war. Prices never went down in the 80s/90s/etc., only profits went up. Whether or not any serious amount of manufacturing can be returned to the US remains to be seen, however we saw how vulnerable we are to relying on an adversary for production back in 2020.
I’m not American - I’m English - but I’m a keen student of history.

And if the us could spin up the greatest production output in history when it joined WW2, I’m sure it could do so again today with robotics automation systems etc working alongside people.

And Europe could do so too.

It’s time to realise that the profits of a few big institutions and people are less important than making a huge historical mistake.
 
Get ready for more news like this one:


Horribly written article, but this is the interesting bit:

“The Bravia 8 II is remarkably more expensive than the A95L in the US,. The 55-inch version will launch at $3500 and the larger 65-inch model will cost an eye-watering $4000.

The A95L launched at $2800 and $3500 for the 55-inch and 65-inch sizes, respectively.

This is an inverse of what usually happens with Sony TVs and means that in UK the Bravia 8 II is on average, £600 cheaper than its predecessor, while in the US it is $600 more expensive.“
 
Really?

Give me a link, because when I googled it the parts list given (for US version) are sourced from China, such as the modem, the camera, etc.

ComponentOrigin Declaration
Mainboard PCBAUSA
Type-C PCBAUSA
Electronics FabricationUSA
ChassisChina
M.2 Modem ModuleChina, inquire for USA/EU options
M.2 WiFi/BT ModuleIndia, inquire for more options
PackagingUSA
AssemblyUSA

They didn't mention the camera but guessing it and (as I already mentioned) the display are included in the "Chassis".

The processor they use has been explicitly mentioned elsewhere as made in the US. Not certain about the memory but assuming the US given Micron and that even Apple uses US-originated memory in the iPhone 16 Pro.
 
If their listed memory provider is Micron then currently its memory fabs are in Taiwan.

Purism doesn't list their memory provider but the WSJ says the memory used in the iPhone 16 Pro is from the US. Given the system-on-chip packaging used in the iPhone, I am assuming that means the chips are sent from the US to Taiwan to be integrated with the main processor.

As far as Micron, it was my understanding they have plants operating around the world including in the US including Idaho and Virginia. That is their memory (retail sold as Crucial) is fabricated in the US though likely packaged in Mexico. However, if you are in the industry and follow this more closely you are welcome to correct.

Under the CHiPS Act Micron has been enticed to construct a manufacturing facility in Idaho, where they have R&D, and another in NY.

However, that Act was from the Biden administration and Trump has derided it intensly.

Yes he did though not sure that relates to how American-made Purism's Liberty phone is. I only brought that phone in as a datapoint to both illustrate that it is possible but neither cheap nor easy to make a modern phone in the US.
 
If you aren't anticipating robots and ai taking over all labor, let alone manufacturing, you are already way behind.
 
I think Bank of America's assessment is based on much of the assembly work still needing a lot of manual labor to put the phone together. But that's starting to change with increasing use of robot assembly, which I believe Foxconn has introduced in a small number of iPhone assembly lines. If Apple can substantially automate the iPhone assembly process, that could make it a lot more viable to assemble some iPhones at a US-based factory.
 
Jobs told Obama those manufacturing jobs were gone and weren't coming back, I can't find the quote, but I also believe he claimed to make their products in the USA he would need an additional 30,000 engineers and that the USA cannot supply domestically.
Yes, this is true. To make iPhones in the US, Apple would need to either find 100,000 Americans who would quit their current job to work in an iPhone factory. This is very unlikely as almost no one would do that. Or, as was said above, hire 30,000 engineers to design and run an automated factory that does not need much human labor. I doubt that Apple would need 30,000, but certainly at least 10,000.

Have you ever been to a university graduation? They typically have students stand and march to get the diploma by department. We get to see all the English majors stand and then all the art or history majors and also the engineering and science majors. What we see is that people with degrees in the hard sciences or engineering are a VERY tiny minority of those graduating. Typically, you see only a dozen chemistry or physics majors but hundreds or even thousands in other fields.

In China, the most common degree is in Engineering or science. In America, those fields are bottom of the list.

Yes china has slightly cheaper labor, The minimum wage in Beijing is $3.70 per hour. The US minimum wage is about $7.30 per hour in many states. This is not a big deal as not many hours of labor go into each iPhone. The bigger problem is finding employees. You can't so automation is required in the US. So in the US rather then hire 100,000 unskilled workers you need 10,000 skilled workers who can design, program and maintain robots. There are not 10,000 people like that currently looking for work, so you can't hire them

If Mr. Trump really wanted to make America great again, he'd fix the education problem.
 
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Merely 25% increase on labor is optimistic. Labor in the U.S.A. is obviously more expensive in direct wages, true enough, but the U.S.A. also assertive health, retirement, collective bargaining, OSHA/NIOSH, EEOC, etc., as rights and obligations that the current administration is systematically dismantling (or converting to PRIVILEGES), because F a bunch of lower-income, sick, weak, old, differently-abled, differently-identifying, different-thinking people, anyway.

And then you have raw materials supply, which is affected by all the labor issues, plus supply chains, starting with energy supply chains. And then supply chains are affected by all their own labor issues, plus environmental concerns plus logistical workloads, several of which are inextricably international and double dip energy and labor. And there the U.S.A. struggles with educational and ideological pathologies endemic to wealthier societies, where content creation and service based economics often trick people into disrespecting day-to-day labor (most of which is way too tedious and cost-ineffective to automate).

Totalitarian central control over birth, education, health, safety, housing, welfare, materials, energy, environment, transportation, communication, etc., etc., surely keeps manufacturing costs down. And Mr. Cook was operations guy, after all, not head of engineering, not head of HR. Apple is only one recent nugget in the giant muck-pile of companies that sold the U.S.A.'s industrial base down the proverbial river to claw back that extra nickel.

So, yeah, $3000 iPhones, $5000 base MacBooks, $5 songs, $15 movie streams, $50 monthly TV+, will be just the beginning. The REAL systemic national security problems will be more apparent later, when the U.S. Dollar is no longer the world's reserve currency. Why do y'all think the current administration of billionaire bros are so vested in crypto - because their actual INTENT, and the inevitable consequence, of recent maneuverings is to convert the U.S.A. treasury to their personal posession, and remove the U.S.A from the world's stage as the 800 lbs. gorilla of free markets, individual freedom and rule of law, which intrinsically act in opposition to oligarchs and kleptocrats.
 
In China, the most common degree is in Engineering or science. In America, those fields are bottom of the list.
China has a government mandated tracked educational system. Students follow their area of academic interest according to government directive. I would hope America does not, and will never, follow that model.
 
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This is common sense to anyone who has even the most basic, elementary school level of understanding of how actual buisnesses work in the real world, which sadly our "President" doesnt get. (No wonder why he bankrupted a casino).

Say what you will about the conditions of the factories in China. Underpaid workers, (clearly) less then idea conditions...lets be real here...from what i understand these are damn NEAR slavery conditions...BUT the key understanding here and i don't want to sound like i'm defending such conditions....is that no one (as far as i know) is FORCED or held at gunpoint to build these phones and other items.

As far as i know...anyone working at these overseas factories can get up, say i quit and walk out and find a job elseware. Now...i dont know if thats possable within the area, clearly im not one of these people building the iphones...so i don't claim to know it all...but these conditions exist for a reason, and the reason is people are willing to work these conditions overseas and apple knows its cheeper to build them over there.

Now you can have your opinions on them doing this all you want, and likely alot of them are valid! BUT compared to the alternative of building factories over here, hiring americans who want way more then what a chinese worker would get, the cost increase for apple to even sell its phones...its just not a practical or realistic solution to building their products here in the US.

Now thats not to say apple cant bring manufacturing jobs back here in the US. They are going to on some level. I do believe some componets for the mac's are built here if i recall correctly. But your talking small scale stuff compared to whats required for the Iphones.

The reality of the situation here is...we have as americans had our time as a manufacturing capital of the world. I would say post civil war leading up to maybe the early 80s! There was a time where the vast majority of Americans would go to work at some factory assembling something and earned enough to make a living and support a family.

But gradually overseas companies took over, and then those jobs (not all of them mind you) went overseas where the cost of labor was much cheeper.

Does anyone remember the movie Gung Ho with Michael Keaton where he worked in the 80s as a car factory bought out by the Japanese? Its a comedy but still a good movie..

Thats what happened world wide and gradually companies of all types of industries went over seas where the labor rates were far cheeper.

Reasons: Buy and build for low...sell for high! Maximize profits! If your a shareholder in a company or own any stock, your there to make a profit. Pure and simple. Companies dont really care how its done, as long as its Legal and puts money in the companies pocket!

You can bitch and moan all you want how its unfair to the consumer or the worker, or how it takes away jobs, and you do have valid points, you truly do. Its not the most moral thing to do, and it is unfair, but this is how companies work sadly.

I get the need for Americans to have jobs where they can make a living. Thats a totally valid point to make. I do think america needs to bring back some level of industry. But building iphones and consumer level electronics is not the way to do that.

We need new forms of industries that are clean, cost effective and bring jobs to Americans. What that is? I dont know, new forms of technology or services would be my guess but realistically i dont see many americans lining up to go build iphones for 12 hours a day at minimum wedge and being happy and making enough money to afford the product they are building!

I dont see why people are so backwards and stubborn on this! Like i said in another post, its not the 1950s post war boom anymore! We have to evolve with the times. Going backwards isnt going to fix future problems.
 
Price hikes will not stop apple, introducing the new iPhone, made of popsicle sicks and held together with rubber bands, at the same price as our last phone. No price hikes here folks.
 
I don't trust any article from some person named Wamsi. The info is probably about as reliable as Gurman's reports.
 
TOP 10 Companies Manufacture Nothing, and lots of part time workers in the USA work at these places.
Something to think about.

https://largest.org/misc/employers-usa/

TOP 5 Employers. (2019) quick find.
===========
United States Federal Government
Employees: 2.7 million
------
Walmart, Inc.
Employees: 1.5 million (US)
----------
McDonald’s
Employees: 420,000
-----------
Kroger
Employees: 400,000
------------
International Business Machines (IBM)
Employees: 377,757

The Home Depot

United Parcel Service (UPS)

Target

Amazon.com

Berkshire Hathaway

 
That happened years ago. Assembly lines are very automated, even in the US.

However, in the US there are many small companies in which labor is still significant. These companies usually make boutique products, like high-end audio, automotive bling, and the like.

The big manufacturers like auto companies were leaders in automation decades ago.
The challenge, our cost of living and debt. Workers cannot work for jobs that do not make cost of living wages. Our cost of living wages for labor intensive manufacturing, ten times China costs. Consumer debt no place to go but up if prices rise.
 
TOP 10 Companies Manufacture Nothing, and lots of part time workers in the USA work at these places.
Something to think about.

https://largest.org/misc/employers-usa/

TOP 5 Employers. (2019) quick find.
===========
United States Federal Government
Employees: 2.7 million
------

Doesn't manufacturing the USD count?

Walmart, Inc.
Employees: 1.5 million (US)
----------
McDonald’s
Employees: 420,000
-----------
Kroger
Employees: 400,000
------------
International Business Machines (IBM)
Employees: 377,757

IBM does manufacture a lot of things. Just not really the things you or I buy frequently...

In any case, while the US does still make things, I think clear that the largest US companies are generally not manufacturers. Arguably this is more of a reflection of the benefits of being a large manufacturer versus being a large retailer, logistics company, etc.

We can also look at the aggregate numbers from the BEA, Fed, etc. There we see that manufacturing ~ 10% of GDP (though you might also want to lump in agriculture, mining, etc depending on what you are trying to get at). What's clear is that Business, Financial, and Professional Services are now the bulk of the US economy. Whether all those services are needed and deserving of the resources they consume, TBD.
 
Let’s be real. China hasn’t played by the rules in decades. They ignore WTO standards, steal intellectual property from companies like Apple and anyone else who manufactures there, and if you try to take legal action, good luck they don’t care. You want something made in China? Be prepared for a knockoff version to hit the market three months later at half the price. China only cares about China. Many legitimate manufacturers have already moved production elsewhere because they’ve had enough of the games. And let’s be honest China is a totalitarian regime ruled by Xi Jinping, who’s been in power for over 13 years and doesn’t look like he’s going anywhere. It’s every bit as corrupt as Russia or North Korea. People should be applauding the fact that we’re finally standing up to this. They’ve been getting away with it for far too long.
 
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steal intellectual property from companies like Apple and anyone else who manufactures there, and if you try to take legal action, good luck they don’t care.

If that case, why do people manufacture there?

Shouldn’t the onus somewhat be on these organizations to not do business in that country?

This question is somewhat rhetorical because the answer is that America and American companies love what China offers… the ability to make a fat profits and get dirt cheap products via a work force that is hard to replicate.
 
Jobs told Obama those manufacturing jobs were gone and weren't coming back, I can't find the quote, but I also believe he claimed to make their products in the USA he would need an additional 30,000 engineers and that the USA cannot supply domestically.
"Apple had 700,000 factory workers employed in China, [Jobs] said, and that was because it needed 30,000 engineers on-site to support those workers. ‘You can’t find that many in America to hire,’ he said."

Source: https://www.theverge.com/news/645355/trump-us-iphone-manufacturing-dream-steve-jobs-tim-cook
 
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