BAR win Button Battle

[iGav]

the real question is: what will mika do

seems he's now signed up with Mercedes DTM team for 2 million Euro a year...

http://teletekst.nos.nl/gif/609-01.html

 

[JFreak]

seems he's now signed up with Mercedes DTM team for 2 million Euro a year...

deal isn't closed yet - and, frank williams is said to be still considering hiring mika, as webber doesn't have lots of merits and other alternatives are weak too. of course, mika would also be a risky investment, because he has been off for three seasons...

 

[iGav]

deal isn't closed yet - and, frank williams is said to be still considering hiring mika, as webber doesn't have lots of merits and other alternatives are weak too. of course, mika would also be a risky investment, because he has been off for three seasons...

yeah... I've just been reading... silly season continues

http://www.itv-f1.com/News_Article.aspx?PO_ID=31477

I don't think they have to worry about Webber, he's a class act... and has proven that this year by sticking that Jag on the front row never mind getting a Minardi into 5th!!

Unless Williams makes an official announcement before the Webber test (which they're using as a benchmark) I reckon it could go down to a face off between Pizza Boy, DC, Heidfeld and Mika in December. Fastest wins.

 

[JFreak]

yeah... I've just been reading... silly season continues

yep, and the rumors go on and on. now the papers write that the last race williams victory pushed the mika-williams negotiations ahead. it is rumoured that frank is offering mika a one-year deal for 9M.

 

[iGav]

yep, and the rumors go on and on. now the papers write that the last race williams victory pushed the mika-williams negotiations ahead. it is rumoured that frank is offering mika a one-year deal for 9M.

It'll be interesting to see how it all pans out. I do think it'd be a little risky offering him a race deal without seeing how he copes first though. The cars are probably anywhere between 5 and 6 seconds a lap quicker to when he last drove one, with a huge increase in cornering speeds because of the tyre war, we only have to see how Villeneuve has struggled with both the G forces and his race fitness (even though he's been training flat out during his time out) after missing less then a year, never mind 3 and look at how both Montoya and Kimi couldn't keep their heads up towards the end of Brazilian GP because of the G forces!

It'd be a shame if he does make a comeback only to be a shadow of his former self ('98 and 2000 being his greatest years) only to struggle with his fitness and being beaten by Webber at every race. But if he comes back in that '98 or 2000 form, then we could be in for a ding-dong battle with Webber next season!!

 

[Counterfit]

look at how both Montoya and Kimi couldn't keep their heads up towards the end of Brazilian GP because of the G forces!

I thought that was because they go around clockwise at Interlagos, rather than clockwise at almost every other circuit?

 

[iGav]

I thought that was because they go around clockwise at Interlagos, rather than clockwise at almost every other circuit?

To a degree it is, my point was that speeds have increased so much that even current drivers are beginning to struggle (others drivers suffered as much at Suzuka) Brazil never was an issue in the past.

Whether the reduction in downforce and increase in tyre durability will reduce cornering speeds significantly is another matter, the FIA expect the teams to lose 25% of the downforce with the new rules, Ross Brawn has already said by the time March comes, Ferrari will have reduced that to 20% and the likely hood is that could be down to 10% within the season.

Jacques has himself admitted that he's far from race fit, even though he's done nothing but work out for the last year and according to pit sources I've read, he's fitter than his WDC year, it's just that he's suffering more because the cars have increased by 3 seconds in the last year alone.

If Williams don't announce the 2nd seat till December, and that driver doesn't start until early Jan when testing kicks off again, that leaves them less than 3 months to get race fit... that is not a long time especially for a driver who has been out for 3 years. Williams cannot afford to have a driver who is off the pace because of fitness for even a few races (look what happened to Renault) after their performance in Brazil, it's just possible that Webber could be fighting for the WDC but for that they need the car to be developed continuously... look how they suffered when Ralf crashed at Indy, the car dropped off to mid pack because Montoya simply cannot develop a car, as soon as Ralf comes back, they gain a 2nd and a Win.

If Mika can come back, as motivated as he was in '98 or 2000 and is instantly on the pace then they should sign him, and pay him whatever he wants that Mika is worth it, make no mistake.

But if it's the demotivated, uncommitted (driving wise) and lackluster Mika of '01 then regardless of whether he's a 2x WDC or not... he doesn't deserve to be in the car.

 

[MOFS]

New Williams' driver tests!!!

To a degree it is, my point was that speeds have increased so much that even current drivers are beginning to struggle (others drivers suffered as much at Suzuka) Brazil never was an issue in the past.

Whether the reduction in downforce and increase in tyre durability will reduce cornering speeds significantly is another matter, the FIA expect the teams to lose 25% of the downforce with the new rules, Ross Brawn has already said by the time March comes, Ferrari will have reduced that to 20% and the likely hood is that could be down to 10% within the season.

Jacques has himself admitted that he's far from race fit, even though he's done nothing but work out for the last year and according to pit sources I've read, he's fitter than his WDC year, it's just that he's suffering more because the cars have increased by 3 seconds in the last year alone.

If Williams don't announce the 2nd seat till December, and that driver doesn't start until early Jan when testing kicks off again, that leaves them less than 3 months to get race fit... that is not a long time especially for a driver who has been out for 3 years. Williams cannot afford to have a driver who is off the pace because of fitness for even a few races (look what happened to Renault) after their performance in Brazil, it's just possible that Webber could be fighting for the WDC but for that they need the car to be developed continuously... look how they suffered when Ralf crashed at Indy, the car dropped off to mid pack because Montoya simply cannot develop a car, as soon as Ralf comes back, they gain a 2nd and a Win.

If Mika can come back, as motivated as he was in '98 or 2000 and is instantly on the pace then they should sign him, and pay him whatever he wants that Mika is worth it, make no mistake.

But if it's the demotivated, uncommitted (driving wise) and lackluster Mika of '01 then regardless of whether he's a 2x WDC or not... he doesn't deserve to be in the car.

Now that Mika's ruled himself out, the list has been "narrowed" to:

Antonio Pizzonia
David Coulthard (urrgh)
Anthony Davidson
Nick Heidfield

bLink and you'll miss it

Pizzonia - fast, erratic, got beaten by Webber at Jaguar comprehensively
Coulthard - fast, good tester, poor qualifier, whinges a lot and will want more than one year
Davidson - fast, good tester (cf BAR) Frank Williams likes him. Only raced 2 races
Heidfield - fast, consistent, thought to be a bit boring (but highly talented - won F3 comprehensively), and, perhaps importantly, GERMAN!

Personally, if I was FW, I'd go for Anthony Davidson. He's had race experience AND has proved exceedingly impressive and important testing for BAR. I also think they could send him back to BAR if (as I have read in various newpapers) Jenson Button joins Williams in 2006.

 

[iGav]

Now that Mika's ruled himself out, the list has been "narrowed" to:

Antonio Pizzonia
David Coulthard (urrgh)
Anthony Davidson
Nick Heidfield

bLink and you'll miss it

Pizzonia - fast, erratic, got beaten by Webber at Jaguar comprehensively
Coulthard - fast, good tester, poor qualifier, whinges a lot and will want more than one year
Davidson - fast, good tester (cf BAR) Frank Williams likes him. Only raced 2 races
Heidfield - fast, consistent, thought to be a bit boring (but highly talented - won F3 comprehensively), and, perhaps importantly, GERMAN!

Personally, if I was FW, I'd go for Anthony Davidson. He's had race experience AND has proved exceedingly impressive and important testing for BAR. I also think they could send him back to BAR if (as I have read in various newpapers) Jenson Button joins Williams in 2006.

I don't think Pizzonia has it at all, he didn't impress when he filled in for Schu Jr. and even with the likes of Montoya, Gene and Pizzonia Williams BMW really missed Ralf. And Webber destroyed him in half a season at Jaguar.

Coulthard, well what can you say he's been in a top seat all his career and has yet to beat his teammate comprehensively (except a demotivated Mika in '01 and a rookie Kimi in 02). Thing is he can develop a car, from what I've read he was much better at than then Mika. Williams NEEDS a driver that can provenly develop the car as they can't afford another season like '04 when they lose one driver and the development suffers.

Davidson, his 2 races were appalling. Yet in Friday testing this year he's showed true speed, the difficult part to draw from that is what was Honda fitting in the back?? (they frequently ran dev engines) what new driver aids did he have?? (he was running the torque splitter device for many practice sessions). The biggest question is can he actually race??

Heidfeld, he's abit of a dark horse isn't he... back in his pre F1 days, he had a rep for being awesomely fast and when he and Kimi were together at Sauber he oudrove Kimi pretty much all season... so that says something. Seems to have fallen into the Fisi trap of being totally ignored by team managers.

For me there's only 2 in it. DC and Heidfeld. DC is a guaranteed points finisher and one of the best developers, Heidfeld could really push Webber and maybe exceed him, but his development capabilities are abit of an unknown.

Personally I think DC will get it... but I'd like to see Heidfeld get it, he's got something to prove. The other 2, one has failed on numorous occasions and the other has almost zero race experience.

 

[JFreak]

Coulthard, well Thing is he can develop a car, from what I've read he was much better at than then Mika.

not true, but this is of course my biased opinion as a finn.

when mika and dc were both doing tests, they always gave the opposite feedback. that's because dc likes an understeering car that lets him play it safe, and mika (as all great drivers such as kimi, senna, lauda and schumi just to mention few) likes a bit oversteering one that you can "drive".

when dc was having more testing responsibility (mika was recovering from the 1995 accident), mika was struggling with the car balance and dc was beating him consistently. when mika took over in 1997, he got what he wanted and there you go, you know the story then, after 2000 season, mika took it little too easy and dc got to develop the car to his liking, resulting an understeering car that mika & kimi were not able to push it to the limit in 2001/2002.

you know i'm right kimi proved it, as the car now oversteers and dc is a second slower per lap.

 

[iGav]

when mika and dc were both doing tests, they always gave the opposite feedback. that's because dc likes an understeering car that lets him play it safe, and mika (as all great drivers such as kimi, senna, lauda and schumi just to mention few) likes a bit oversteering one that you can "drive".

when dc was having more testing responsibility (mika was recovering from the 1995 accident), mika was struggling with the car balance and dc was beating him consistently. when mika took over in 1997, he got what he wanted and there you go, you know the story then, after 2000 season, mika took it little too easy and dc got to develop the car to his liking, resulting an understeering car that mika & kimi were not able to push it to the limit in 2001/2002.

DC goes for a more neutral set up, as opposed to understeer, no F1 driver likes understeer it's just that certain drivers are more capable of driving through an edgy and oversteer prone car and can better deal with those characteristics, Gilles, Schu, Senna, Montoya, Kimi and to a degree Mika... DC isn't one of them, he prefers a more balanced car and there's nothing wrong with that... look at Prost

It's interesting that McLaren were way off the pace (post Senna that is) before DC joined isn't it... yet within 1 season they're competitive and winning races, yet the prior 3 years with Mika they were no where.... doesn't say much for Mika's development skills does it.

Funny you bring up 1997 (after all Mika did develop the car the way "he wanted it" in your words). Interestingly in '97 DC would've won 3x as many races as Mika, had he not been ordered by Ron Dennis to let Mika win one. And who knows what would've happened to DC's motivation (look what 2 wins in a row did for Mika) had he been allowed to win the 1st race of '98 rather than hand Mika yet another win, would he have been on the same high as Mika was? rather than being understandably demotivated by having to give away 2 wins in 2 races?? it's all gravy though isn't it... could've, should've.. etc etc.

2001 had nothing to do with the car though, it was competitive with the Ferrari... Mika had just lost his bottle. In '02 DC outdrove Kimi (you can't blame it on the car handling, a 'Great' driver will always be able to drive to the limit whatever you give him, think Senna, Schu and Gilles ).

Anyway... we all know that Mika on his day was a better race driver than DC, and anyone would be crazy to choose DC of any year over Mika of 2000, but from what I remember of that era and what I read, DC was, is and remains a better development driver and that is what Williams BMW really needs right now.

The only other viable choice is Heidfeld, who was better than Kimi when they raced together at Sauber...