Barclays: There's Still a 'Good Chance' Apple Will Have to Use Qualcomm 5G Modems in 2020 iPhones

Discussion in ' News Discussion' started by MacRumors, Jan 17, 2019.

  1. MacRumors macrumors bot


    Apr 12, 2001

    While recent reports have suggested Intel will supply Apple with 5G modems for 2020 iPhones, the chipmaker has struggled with its consumer 5G modems, to the extent that Apple has allegedly "been unhappy" with Intel's progress.


    Despite its apparent displeasure with Intel, a report in November claimed that Apple had not considered reopening conversations with Qualcomm about supplying 5G modems for 2020 iPhones. Instead, Apple recently testified that it held conversations with Samsung and MediaTek as potential alternative suppliers.

    In a research note obtained by MacRumors today, however, analysts at investment bank Barclays said they "still believe there is a good chance Apple will have to use Qualcomm for the 5G modem in their 2020 phones." They also believe such a deal may result in the two companies settling their ongoing lawsuit.

    It's a bold claim, as Apple and Qualcomm are engaged in a bitter legal battle around the world. The saga began in 2017 when Apple sued Qualcomm over anticompetitive business practices related to royalties. Qualcomm has denied the allegations and says the iPhone wouldn't exist without its innovations.

    Apple COO Jeff Williams recently testified that Qualcomm has been unwilling to provide Apple with any new wireless chips since the legal battle began, with each company seemingly trying to gain the upper hand on the other. As of now, neither company appears willing to back down.

    Qualcomm is widely considered to be leading the industry with its 5G efforts though, and there's a good chance its 5G modems will outperform similar offerings from Intel, so perhaps the two companies will find a way to settle their differences.

    Article Link: Barclays: There's Still a 'Good Chance' Apple Will Have to Use Qualcomm 5G Modems in 2020 iPhones
  2. nepalisherpa macrumors 68020


    Aug 15, 2011
  3. themick4u macrumors 6502


    Oct 9, 2014
    South Florida
    Apple, develop their own modems. and stop using Intel modems. These clearly are problematic time and time again.
  4. csi24 macrumors regular


    Nov 20, 2007
    We all knew this was gonna happen. Until Apple can make their own modems, they'll have to kiss and make up with Qualcomm.

    The Intel modem and the stupid new antenna design on the Xs Max caused me to return my Max a week after launch. The signal was worse than my 7 Plus!
  5. The Don Onez macrumors member

    Nov 7, 2017
    Huntsville, AL
    Can you "hurry up" and develop a modem? Especially one that's better than the competition, and they have decades of a head start.
  6. Mike MA macrumors 68010

    Mike MA

    Sep 21, 2012
  7. ilikewhey macrumors 6502a


    May 14, 2014
    nyc upper east
    mediatek...thats rather low on the totem pole
  8. GrumpyMom macrumors 604


    Sep 11, 2014
    Goodness reading about Qualcomm and Apple these days reminds me of all the gossip about middle school squabbles I hear when I pick the kids up from school. :rolleyes:

    It’s really shocking how similar this all is to a big row my kid was having with her best friend for six months when they both hit puberty at the same time and lost their minds. They finally put it past them and are conducting themselves with impressive dignity these days. Apple and Qualcomm have been at this for years and are allegedly run by adults. It’s rather discouraging.
  9. Wide opeN macrumors 65816

    Wide opeN

    Aug 27, 2010
    Once Apple designs their own modem, it's going to be game over!!!
  10. Fender2112 macrumors 65816


    Aug 11, 2002
    Charlotte, NC
    There is more at stake here than just bad blood between Qualcom and Apple. The FTC has legitimate concerns about Qualcom's unethical trade practices.

    The courts need to make a ruling on this so a precedent can be set for other companies.
  11. kemal macrumors 65816


    Dec 21, 2001
    Apple will certainly source its modem technology from its Qualcomm division.
  12. kingtj macrumors 68020

    Oct 23, 2003
    Brunswick, MD
    Yeah.... I normally just sigh and ignore the rest of the saga, when I hear about these legal battles between industry giants. I think a good portion of their profits are projected to come from whatever lawsuits they believe they can win in a given year, vs. actually making money selling products and services.

    But when I saw some details on the Qualcomm arrangements, I thought it sounded suspect. Qualcomm seemed to be trying to penalize Apple every time it used a non-Qualcomm solution in its phones as part of their contract. (Reminds me of the B.S. with Microsoft years ago, where they'd only agree to sell a PC builder a Windows license at a discounted rate if the builder agreed not to load any competing OS on any of its products.)

    I'm a big supporter of a "free and open marketplace", but I think you do have to draw some lines in the sand too. (You can't very well play a baseball or football game if you don't first have rules of play, and then a referee to enforce them.) People can write ANYTHING into a contract, but that doesn't always mean the legal system will uphold all of it. I'm not sure it should ever be legally enforceable to write up a contract that says the buyer is penalized for purchasing from another source?

  13. Sasparilla macrumors 65816

    Jul 6, 2012
    Interesting guess by Barclay's analyst. I'd prefer the Qualcomm stuff from a user perspective and there's still a good amount of time between now and the 2020's coming out at the end of 2020. Also alot of time for Intel to get their stuff fixed. Time will tell.
  14. zombierunner macrumors 65816


    Jan 18, 2011
    Honestly, just make peace with Qualcomm. Overall cheaper than spending on lawsuits or designing your own (in the short term) or using inferior ones from other providers.
  15. alexnyc8 macrumors member

    Sep 18, 2018
    This whole 5G thing is the greatest experiment on people... according to quite a few researches constant bombardment by high frequency microwaves (which is what 5G is) is going to have health effects (key word is constant bombardment by very high frequency EMF (tens of gigahertz, 24/7).
    Looks like the only beneficiaries of this will be big brother (as this will enable all kind of spooks wet dream - constant high resolution real time surveillance over just about everything), and ofcourse big telecom who will love to sell you "5gee betta den 4 gee". (But just search 5G dangers, there is plenty of evidence and a lot of it by scientific and medical communities - ofcourse the benefactors will always say its not true)
  16. heov macrumors regular

    Aug 16, 2002
    Apple can't just make a modem overnight. It takes time and money.

    Cost of iPhone will likely go up if Apple has to spend billions on R&D to make their own... costing more than paying Qualcomms fee.

    If it was cost effective to build their own modem, they'd do it. Apple is all about that green.
  17. mikethemartian macrumors 6502

    Jan 5, 2017
    Melbourne, FL
    A contract is a “meeting of the minds”. When you have attorneys from two large companies hammer out a contract everything in it, unless it contradicts the law, is enforceable. In contrast when you have a contract prewritten (contract of adhesion) by just one side as you would between a store and a consumer not every part of it can be enforced against the consumer since there was never a “meeting of the minds”.
  18. nepalisherpa macrumors 68020


    Aug 15, 2011
    It's not like Apple is starting now. They have been at it for some time now.
  19. cmaier Suspended

    Jul 25, 2007
    There are many other exceptions where a contract that doesn't otherwise contradict the law may be wholly or partially unenforceable, even when hammered out by attorneys at two large companies.
  20. HacKage macrumors 6502

    May 14, 2010
    Considering the cost of the iPhone, they should just bury the hatchet and put in the Qualcomm modems at the price agreed. Pay what you owe, and give people the best performance available. Don't throttle Qualcomm modems to be equal to inferior Intel units. If it costs an extra $10-20 per handset, that is nothing compared to the cost of the phone.

    Many competitors have the best Qualcomm modems in phones that cost half the price.
  21. brofkand macrumors 6502

    Jun 11, 2006
    Apple unhappy with both Qualcomm and Intel?

    To Apple: "If you keep smelling sh*t, check your shoes."
  22. timber macrumors 6502

    Aug 30, 2006
    Samsungs modems are quite good but the same problem that makes them sell snapdragons in the USA instead of Exynos (with their own modems) would probably limit Apple.
  23. cmaier Suspended

    Jul 25, 2007
    Or it's just possible that two giant monopolies that sell the same thing to everyone don't allow apple to customize its products to provide unique value propositions.

    Look at what Apple did when it eschewed Intel and Qualcomm for mobile CPUs!
  24. recoil80 macrumors 68020

    Jul 16, 2014
    I think they will make their own chip eventually. Their main product depends on the modem, and even the Apple Watch is implementing cellular, so does the iPad. Makes sense to have a custom solution there, but they're going to have a lot of problems dealing with patents
  25. Kaledatheone macrumors newbie

    Jul 3, 2012
    Q didn't want to sell anything to Apple which is why they went all in with Intel on latest phones. So, what's different this time around?

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73 January 17, 2019