Base 13" vs 13" w/ Touchbar. Worth it?

[skids929]

Just because Matt is getting x amount of hours, that doesn't necessarily mean that you will get the same or less.

In my opinion, too many people on here are engaging in logical fallacy when determining whether to purchase A or B Mac. Add hyperbole to the logical fallacy to the mix, (not saying you specifically where using hyperbole) and it makes for one big mess.

But we can all take some basic assumptions out of this that would concern anyone about to drop $2k. Battery life isn't performing as Apple says it will. Exactly what folks are getting to the minute isn't my concern, anecdotal experience is fine to prove the battery is hours off for some. Apple is screwed if this is the case.

 

[mattopotamus]

So you're doing an a/b test of the TB and NTB? Smart. How are you feeling about it overall? I would have a hard time giving this TB model up, I really like it. I am probably (hopelessly) optimistic that Apple will somewhat address the battery issue through Software at some point. Maybe not, and I am just rationalizing so I can keep this thing. Overall I love the laptop, sans battery life. I am getting about 9, but I am treating this super lightly. Can't imagine what would happen if I taxed it. Then again, any task where I am working the machine I usually attach to power, and most laptops I have owned off the plug working hard drain the battery quick. It's the internet and light video watching that there is NO excuse for short battery on.

I love everything about the TB model. It may be more of a "gimmick" b.c everything it does you can do without the touchbar, but I just think it is awesome. Like anything apple releases that is new, we are early adopters. Give the TB a year, and it may be a must owned killer feature. I would like to keep my laptop for at least 3 years, and I would be really upset with myself if I passed on the TB model and it continues to grow like I think it will.

Maybe I legit did get a dud for battery life. The more I am reading the more I see SCM reset is helping people. Battery life is my only concern with the TB model, so maybe I will try a swap.

 

[Apple_Robert]

But we can all take some basic assumptions out of this that would concern anyone about to drop $2k. Battery life isn't performing as Apple says it will. Exactly what folks are getting to the minute isn't my concern, anecdotal experience is fine to prove the battery is hours off for some. Apple is screwed if this is the case.

Apple says up to 10 hours. I think many here are reading that as some kind of guarantee of 10 hours.

Like others here, I read lots of posts and try to keep an unofficial tally (if you will) of the overall usage of product A. However, I don't dismiss a product just because one person says thus and thus about product A. I also like to keep in mind, that requirements, usage and preferences set on product A often vary from person to person. As such, the battery usage can see significant gaps at times.

Keep an open mind and at least try the touch bar, given the extended return policy right now. That would be more logical than dismissing it altogether based on some people at MacRumors. That was my main point.

 

[Hyloba]

My biggest gripe at the moment is the 2 vs 4 ports. Yes I could manage with 2, but then I need hubs and I would have to need to bring that hub everywhere. With 4 ports I could just use dongles now and cables later without the need of a hub. I will always need a hub with the n-tb. If it weren't for the damn ports, I would have made my decision already..

 

[skids929]

I love everything about the TB model. It may be more of a "gimmick" b.c everything it does you can do without the touchbar, but I just think it is awesome. Like anything apple releases that is new, we are early adopters. Give the TB a year, and it may be a must owned killer feature. I would like to keep my laptop for at least 3 years, and I would be really upset with myself if I passed on the TB model and it continues to grow like I think it will.

Maybe I legit did get a dud for battery life. The more I am reading the more I see SCM reset is helping people. Battery life is my only concern with the TB model, so maybe I will try a swap.

I think you get what you like and bring your concerns to Apple, so at the very least you've documented it with them. Or maybe you will leave with some new info that helps you and others.

 

[athletejmv]

Seeing as you have both, how does the fan noise compare between the two when maxing out the CPU & GPU? Very interested in seeing how the 1 fan in the non TB compares to the 2 fans in the TB version.

So I've gotten some hands on with all of the units (15", 13" w and w/o touchbar). The fan noise is the worst on the 15" because they are always on. This irritates me in a quite room. The fans on the 13"MBP w or w/o touch bar are not always on. The fan on the non tb comes on with normal use (office work / media consumption before the tb version; the fans rarely come on with the tb model under light use and video streaming. I'm assuming because there is more surface area on the dual fan tb version. In regards to battery life, there is like a 5-15 minute difference running non-intensive programs ( i.e. flash player in the browser, photo editor, etc. are considered more intensive by not allowing the processor to idol). OLED uses very little power, so battery life for the most should be the same between the tb and non-tb if processors are at an idol as in my usage/experience. The dual fans in the tb version do not seem any louder than the single fan in the non-tb. As a main machine, the tb version of the 13" MBPs is the obvious choice for most IMO; if you want to save $300, then go with the non-tb. You are getting more for your money with the tb version. Get what works for you. On a side note, the speaker sound on the 13" tb is pretty good and has more bass to it than the non-tb version. I've watched the Detroit Borg video comparing the two and I have to disagree with him. The non-tb sound more directed at you, but the 13" tb sounds fuller and has more bass. The tb has tweeters facing through the top and low end project through the side vents.

I hope all of this helps some of you out.

 

[keviig]

So I've gotten some hands on with all of the units (15", 13" w and w/o touchbar). The fan noise is the worst on the 15" because they are always on. This irritates me in a quite room. The fans on the 13"MBP w or w/o touch bar are not always on. The fan on the non tb comes on with normal use (office work / media consumption before the tb version; the fans rarely come on with the tb model under light use and video streaming. I'm assuming because there is more surface area on the dual fan tb version. In regards to battery life, there is like a 5-15 minute difference running non-intensive programs ( i.e. flash player in the browser, photo editor, etc. are considered more intensive by not allowing the processor to idol). OLED uses very little power, so battery life for the most should be the same between the tb and non-tb if processors are at an idol as in my usage/experience. The dual fans in the tb version do not seem any louder than the single fan in the non-tb. As a main machine, the tb version of the 13" MBPs is the obvious choice for most IMO; if you want to save $300, then go with the non-tb. You are getting more for your money with the tb version. Get what works for you. On a side note, the speaker sound on the 13" tb is pretty good and has more bass to it than the non-tb version. I've watched the Detroit Borg video comparing the two and I have to disagree with him. The non-tb sound more directed at you, but the 13" tb sounds fuller and has more bass. The tb has tweeters facing through the top and low end project through the side vents.

I hope all of this helps some of you out.

Thanks for the reply!
So the TB version has less fan noise? That seems opposite to the other guy that answered me earlier. I thought it would be quieter (as you say) due to the additional heat pipe and heatsink. Would you be able to do a test with max cpu (and gpu load if possible) and see what the temp and fan RPM ends up at? I'm having a hard time deciding between the two, and fan noise is one of the most important aspects for me, as i hate fan noise.

 

[Acronyc]

So I've gotten some hands on with all of the units (15", 13" w and w/o touchbar). The fan noise is the worst on the 15" because they are always on. This irritates me in a quite room. The fans on the 13"MBP w or w/o touch bar are not always on. The fan on the non tb comes on with normal use (office work / media consumption before the tb version; the fans rarely come on with the tb model under light use and video streaming. I'm assuming because there is more surface area on the dual fan tb version. In regards to battery life, there is like a 5-15 minute difference running non-intensive programs ( i.e. flash player in the browser, photo editor, etc. are considered more intensive by not allowing the processor to idol). OLED uses very little power, so battery life for the most should be the same between the tb and non-tb if processors are at an idol as in my usage/experience. The dual fans in the tb version do not seem any louder than the single fan in the non-tb. As a main machine, the tb version of the 13" MBPs is the obvious choice for most IMO; if you want to save $300, then go with the non-tb. You are getting more for your money with the tb version. Get what works for you. On a side note, the speaker sound on the 13" tb is pretty good and has more bass to it than the non-tb version. I've watched the Detroit Borg video comparing the two and I have to disagree with him. The non-tb sound more directed at you, but the 13" tb sounds fuller and has more bass. The tb has tweeters facing through the top and low end project through the side vents.

I hope all of this helps some of you out.

I have a 16/512 non TB model and the fan in mine never comes on when doing light work, including web browsing, word processing, email, video streaming, and basically anything that is not demanding. I monitor the fan with a few apps and 95% of the time they give the same reading: 0RPM. For most tasks it's just as quiet as the fanless 12" rMB it is replacing. I don't have a TB model to compare it to, but I can say that in my experience over two weeks the fan never comes on with light use. And the battery is phenomenal, I easily get 10 hours on a charge with light use.

 

[Patron_Saint]

On fan noise, I put the 13" non Touchbar through its paces last night. Copied around 150GB of data, did installs, massive photo copying, iTunes media importing, and some gaming.

Handled it all well, and even better, with no noticeable fan noise. I assume it was still indexing at the same time too.

 

[bcaslis]

I love everything about the TB model. It may be more of a "gimmick" b.c everything it does you can do without the touchbar, but I just think it is awesome. Like anything apple releases that is new, we are early adopters. Give the TB a year, and it may be a must owned killer feature. I would like to keep my laptop for at least 3 years, and I would be really upset with myself if I passed on the TB model and it continues to grow like I think it will.

Maybe I legit did get a dud for battery life. The more I am reading the more I see SCM reset is helping people. Battery life is my only concern with the TB model, so maybe I will try a swap.

I had the non-touch also but decided it wasn't enough of a leap for me to keep over the 12" MacBook. I got a maxed out 13" touchbar on Friday and really like it. I haven't had it long enough to be certain yet but I'm not seeing battery life as bad as what you are seeing. I've seen it report 3 hours but only after running something intensive like a benchmark or Lightroom. Under normal usage it's more like 6.5 - 8 hours but I need more time using it to be certain.

 

[EgGKeith]

Double the amount of USB C ports
Faster RAM
Touch iD
And the infamous Touch Bar

I don't think, you can really notice the different of the ram speed

 

[dogslobber]

If you're not getting the touch bar model, I'd get the 2015. Way better bang for buck.

Agree. The touch bar is a worthless gimmick in my opinion. I tried it in the Apple store and the sales droid wasn't amused when I said it was junk. In addition the non-touch bar version has only two ports. Two ports! In the PRO model?!? It's a joke. Apple really has to be taking the piss.
[doublepost=1479661605][/doublepost]

My biggest gripe at the moment is the 2 vs 4 ports. Yes I could manage with 2, but then I need hubs and I would have to need to bring that hub everywhere. With 4 ports I could just use dongles now and cables later without the need of a hub. I will always need a hub with the n-tb. If it weren't for the damn ports, I would have made my decision already..

I think you've identified Apple's new ca$h cow. Dongle utopia.

 

[mattopotamus]

I had the non-touch also but decided it wasn't enough of a leap for me to keep over the 12" MacBook. I got a maxed out 13" touchbar on Friday and really like it. I haven't had it long enough to be certain yet but I'm not seeing battery life as bad as what you are seeing. I've seen it report 3 hours but only after running something intensive like a benchmark or Lightroom. Under normal usage it's more like 6.5 - 8 hours but I need more time using it to be certain.

6.5 - 8 seems realistic, but it really hovers much closer to 6.5-7. That isn't bad, but it also is not enough to get me through an entire day. I straight up get 11 with the no TB model.

 

[athletejmv]

4 hours difference is odd though. I am not quite sure that's exactly the case.

The battery size difference is 10%. The internals are slightly different, and there's the touch-bar. The internals might account for a +/- 5% energy efficiency difference. The question is... does the touchbar really drain 30-35% battery life over non-touchbar? Sounds odd to me.

While I can't speak for others, I can say that I have used both the tb and non tb versions and battery life difference was minimal under low intensive tasks such out document use, web browsing, calendar and email.

I was only getting around 5-15 minute difference in battery life. Also, under minimal use, the two fans on the tb version came on less. However, I can see where if the two fans are running in the tb version and you're running more intensive programs i.e. flash player in your browser, then a dramatic battery life may be observable because the processor cannot idle down.
[doublepost=1479664416][/doublepost]

I have a 16/512 non TB model and the fan in mine never comes on when doing light work, including web browsing, word processing, email, video streaming, and basically anything that is not demanding. I monitor the fan with a few apps and 95% of the time they give the same reading: 0RPM. For most tasks it's just as quiet as the fanless 12" rMB it is replacing. I don't have a TB model to compare it to, but I can say that in my experience over two weeks the fan never comes on with light use. And the battery is phenomenal, I easily get 10 hours on a charge with light use.

I can't speak for you, but that was my experience. The fan came on very little for both laptops, but more often with the non-tb for me. I'm glad your experience has been good as I'm an advocate overall for the new release. Very happy with the smaller dimensions, weight decrease, keyboard, etc. Now I just have to decide which one will be my daily driver between the 15" and 13" with touch bar. I already opted out of the non tb version due to needing a bump in the performance and lack of 2 usb-c over its counterparts; also, I do like having Touch ID
[doublepost=1479664582][/doublepost]

Thanks for the reply!
So the TB version has less fan noise? That seems opposite to the other guy that answered me earlier. I thought it would be quieter (as you say) due to the additional heat pipe and heatsink. Would you be able to do a test with max cpu (and gpu load if possible) and see what the temp and fan RPM ends up at? I'm having a hard time deciding between the two, and fan noise is one of the most important aspects for me, as i hate fan noise.

Honestly, if fan noise is the deciding factor, you'll be good with either version. The noise difference is negligible. The two fans in the tb version help mitigate fan noise by running two fans at a lower rpm, then one fan at a higher RPM.

 

[raqball]

I have the non TB base and I've not heard the fan yet...

OP, I went with the non TB because I don't see any value in in the TB.. If you think you will get usage from the TB then get it, if you think you'll only get minor usage from it then ask yourself is it worth the added cost, the downgrade in battery and something else that can fail and/or have issue..

I was in a similar dilemma when purchasing and after playing with the TB in store, I instantly passed..

 

[skids929]

I have the non TB base and I've not heard the fan yet...

OP, I went with the non TB because I don't see any value in in the TB.. If you think you will get usage from the TB then get it, if you think you'll only get minor usage from it then ask yourself is it worth the added cost, the downgrade in battery and something else that can fail and/or have issue..

I was in a similar dilemma when purchasing and after playing with the TB in store, I instantly passed..

Fine if you don't want the touchbar for usefulness but the standard off the shelf nonTB model will NOT have the lgenvity the TB model will due to the spec differences. When I say longevity I mean how long you own it before it start crawling because of software. So you might feel the need to replace in 3 years whereby someone on the TB model might get another year or two or three. So it's more than the TB itself we're talking about here or I'd have the non TB model myself.

It kind of becomes about the investment in what is an expensive laptop but at the same time balancing the whole law of diminishing returns argument.

 

[supajam]

Fine if you don't want the touchbar for usefulness but the standard off the shelf nonTB model will NOT have the lgenvity the TB model will due to the spec differences. When I say longevity I mean how long you own it before it start crawling because of software. So you might feel the need to replace in 3 years whereby someone on the TB model might get another year or two or three. So it's more than the TB itself we're talking about here or I'd have the non TB model myself.

It kind of becomes about the investment in what is an expensive laptop but at the same time balancing the whole law of diminishing returns argument.

The extra 10-15% increase in performance will yield "another year or two or three" longevity? Nah. If you want any significant future proofing benefit, buy the 15".

 

[Patron_Saint]

Fine if you don't want the touchbar for usefulness but the standard off the shelf nonTB model will NOT have the lgenvity the TB model will due to the spec differences. When I say longevity I mean how long you own it before it start crawling because of software. So you might feel the need to replace in 3 years whereby someone on the TB model might get another year or two or three. So it's more than the TB itself we're talking about here or I'd have the non TB model myself.

It kind of becomes about the investment in what is an expensive laptop but at the same time balancing the whole law of diminishing returns argument.

I don't know how you factor 3 years longer use for what's documented as 5-7% performance increases, at the expense of 10% smaller battery.

It just doesn't make sense to claim that in the sense of software leaving it crawling. Either one is a five year machine without too much worry unless you're doing high end modeling and video editing. In which case you're not looking at or considering the 13" anyway.

 

[raqball]

Fine if you don't want the touchbar for usefulness but the standard off the shelf nonTB model will NOT have the lgenvity the TB model will due to the spec differences. When I say longevity I mean how long you own it before it start crawling because of software. So you might feel the need to replace in 3 years whereby someone on the TB model might get another year or two or three. So it's more than the TB itself we're talking about here or I'd have the non TB model myself.

It kind of becomes about the investment in what is an expensive laptop but at the same time balancing the whole law of diminishing returns argument.

The extra 10-15% increase in performance will yield "another year or two or three" longevity? Nah. If you want any significant future proofing benefit, buy the 15".

True..

I don't know how you factor 3 years longer use for what's documented as 5-7% performance increases, at the expense of 10% smaller battery.

It just doesn't make sense to claim that in the sense of software leaving it crawling. Either one is a five year machine without too much worry unless you're doing high end modeling and video editing. In which case you're not looking at or considering the 13" anyway.

Yup..

One could also argue that the TB causes or could cause earlier failure of the machine.. It's something else that could develop an issue and since these are non repairable at just about every level, I'd definitely consider Apple Care + for anyone buying the TB version.. Add the cost of Apple Care + into the equation as well...

 

[keviig]

Yup..

One could also argue that the TB causes or could cause earlier failure of the machine.. It's something else that could develop an issue and since these are non repairable at just about every level, I'd definitely consider Apple Care + for anyone buying the TB version.. Add the cost of Apple Care + into the equation as well...

Agreed. I think of the TB model as more of a "first gen" product than the non-TB one, and thus has a higher chance of failure down the road.

 

[skids929]

I don't know how you factor 3 years longer use for what's documented as 5-7% performance increases, at the expense of 10% smaller battery.

It just doesn't make sense to claim that in the sense of software leaving it crawling. Either one is a five year machine without too much worry unless you're doing high end modeling and video editing. In which case you're not looking at or considering the 13" anyway.

I was using those timelines as an example..And if we go with your 5-7% number it kind of proves my point that the machine will have more headroom. But again I am referring to headroom with the machine. A 28 watt processor is going to be able to handle more, and the lack of ports and the way the ports are configured on the motherboard in the non TB are less attractive as well, the speed of RAM may be negligible but a lot of folks are going to go with 16GB at which point it doesn't make any sense to stick the NON TB model. And the graphics differences. Overall it makes the TB model a more robust choice that will likely give you more time before one feels the need to upgrade. My point in response to you is it NOT just about the functionality of the TB for a lot of people choosing the TB, it's more complicated than that. I am not saying you don't have a good machine, but it's obviously going to limit the headroom, and provide less flexibility with ports. Better battery life for sure but I am getting about 9 and can live with that. Not sure how Apple got 10..

 

[mattopotamus]

People are living in a fantasy land if they think the 13" no TB is going to be outdated before the 13" TB. They benchmark nearly the same and both will last for a really really long time. Laptops are at the same place smartphone are at, they have peaked.

 

[raqball]

I was using those timelines as an example..And if we go with your 5-7% number it kind of proves my point that the machine will have more headroom. But again I am referring to headroom with the machine. A 28 watt processor is going to be able to handle more, and the lack of ports and the way the ports are configured on the motherboard in the non TB are less attractive as well, the speed of RAM may be negligible but a lot of folks are going to go with 16GB at which point it doesn't make any sense to stick the NON TB model. And the graphics differences. Overall it makes the TB model a more robust choice that will likely give you more time before one feels the need to upgrade. My point in response to you is it NOT just about the functionality of the TB for a lot of people choosing the TB, it's more complicated than that. I am not saying you don't have a good machine, but it's obviously going to limit the headroom, and provide less flexibility. Better battery life for sure but I am getting about 9 and can live with that. Not sure how Apple got 10..

The TB is fine if someone finds value in it.. If someone does not find value in it then it's a waste of $$$$ which could be spent upgrading the non TB version...

Your argument of longevity is highly debatable though.. I'd argue the opposite and that the TB will induce added failure rate to a non repairable machine.

 

[skids929]

Then why not spend the money on upgrading the non TB version? Better processor and more RAM would be more beneficial in your longevity argument than the addition of a TB...

Good question, one I am still considering, but here is the thing...I like the TB and once I get into that price range I just think it make sense to stay with it and order one of those. Only real thing I am giving up is an hour or 2 of battery life, which may potentially be something Apple needs to address. But I don't completely disagree with you, it would just be a matter of me getting over the fact I like the TB.
[doublepost=1479673623][/doublepost]

The TB is fine if someone finds value in it.. If someone does not find value in it then it's a waste of $$$$ which could be spent upgrading the non TB version...

Your argument of longevity is highly debatable though.. I'd argue the opposite and that the TB will induce added failure rate to a non repairable machine.

Possibly...My approach to buying Apple computers has always been to try and find the sweet spot in the line up to get me a solid 5-7 (or more) years out of it. Problem is their new MBP line up is so screwy it's proving difficult to do. Got 11 years out of my 13 inch white MB-last year or two were tough with it though. So my thought is to just buy up and spend more and the machine will last longer. Maybe I need to revisit that since as Matt says we've hit some sort of peak in some ways. I had the 15 and it doesn't work for me, too big, and quite honestly the battery only lasted 7 hours on that machine I had.

I am still figuring it all out and the non TB is not out of the question but in terms of what started this debate, the "functionality" of the TB (especially Touch ID) is very cool to me and I like it overall. Do I think it's a need, no not at all. It's just tech bling that is fun and useful to me.

 

[Apple_Robert]

I picked up the 13" touch bar version today, after returning the 13" base non touch bar. I was missing having ports on both sides. And after a week experimenting with using a hub with the non touch, I found that it wasn't a smooth transition from the desk to the recliner as the upgraded 4 ports machine is.

I haven't used the touch bar much yet, as I am still getting everything set up. From what I have seen and used thus far, I like the subtle interaction of the touch bar with Safari.

I really like the Touch ID feature especially with 1Password. It makes for a much smoother computing experience.

As to the speakers, I didn't hear any overt problems or huge difference between them and the non touch bar. Will need to experiment more as I only tested with one song thus far (Rocky Mountain Way).

In regards to battery power, I use my Mac plugged in most of the time. When I go mobile, it isn't for 8 - 10 hours at a timer without the ability to plug in. I have seen so many people on here getting obsessed with using Coconut Batty ands other battery apps, constantly powering up and down, load / no load / resetting the Mac. And instead of normally using their Mac, they spend what appears to be most of their computer time with the eyes and their mind locked in on the estimated battery life given by Sierra. Apple has never guaranteed 10 hours of battery life as many here seem to think.The 10 hours is an estimated 'up to' as noted on Apple's site. If I start to see a problem with my Mac or become unsatisfied with it during the extended return policy, I will take action. Other than that, I plan on enjoying my Mac and learning about all the new features it has.

I didn't think I would like the touch bar. After using it some, its is more useful than I thought, even if it needs more development time to mature. I am glad I have kept an open mind, and tried products first hand, instead of looking to other people to make my mind up for me.

If my feelings or needs change during the grace period, I will take action as need be. Until then, I will enjoy this gift to myself. I encourage others to do their own research mentally and physically with the new Macs, and make an informed individual decision that you can be pleased with, regardless of what others (who aren't paying your bills) may say.