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If you bought a MacBook Air to run Resolve, FCP X or Photoshop (working with large-ish files), you might have made the worst possible choice in the entire lineup. You do realize that machine has a 7 Watt dual-core CPU with the least powerful iGPU available, right? Please, at least tell me it has 16GB RAM :eek:

Well anyway, you would get much better performance from this new 13” MBP, but it still might not be sufficiently powerful to do what you want to do, without losing hundreds of dollars in billable hours per week (or day). The MBA is wholly unsuited to your requirements.

Nah, this is just my personal laptop that I use to review projects and do quick conforms/edits at home. We have iMacs and other dekstops that we do the actual heavy lifting on. I was just expecting more performance out of the air but was proven wrong.
 
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Reeiiggghhttttt... so you’ve just basically stated they aren’t professionals. use

Some incredibly naive comm nets on this thread I must say.

No I haven't. Please point to where I said that.

People use iPads in a professional setting. Great, I don't think anybody would've disputed that but the fact is they are far more limited than a fully fledged computer.

You can only run software that Apple approves , that fact alone makes the iPad way more limited than a Mac/a PC. You could use a pro app for your workflow on iOS and Apple could ban it and that would be the end of that.
 
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So let's say I want at least a 256GB SSD... is there a reason why I would upgrade the low-end MBP to a 1.7GHz i7, rather than just going for the base version of the high-end model? The latter has a 2.4GHz i5, a slightly better video card, and two extra Thunderbolt ports, for the same price of $1799!
 
Now you’ve done it. All you accomplished with that post is rousing all the iPad haters, and those who choose to be willfully ignorant about what the iPad can do, especially with the new iPadOS 13.

Because of this, we iPad devotees have to endure yet another fusillade of stupid comments like “you can’t do real work on iPad” and “iPad is only good for watching movies.”

Why stir up sh#t? Let’s just wait until iPadOS is released in the fall. Then we can talk tough.

Yep I'm already using iPadOS and it truly is a remarkably powerful system.

Like I said, the new MacBook Pro is impressively performant and I'll concede is a great system for those who still want to use legacy computing products for whatever reason. I think it's reasonable for the iPad Pro to be in this conversation too because the performance is remarkable.
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As soon as you tell me how to get a half dozen local terminal windows on an iPad Pro. If I can't get to a shell prompt (or a lot of shell prompts), it can't take over completely from my MBP.

Prompt 2 from Panic.
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Not if you want to get any real work done it isn't. An iPad Pro will have its use cases and be applicable for some but for most it is not replacing a Laptop or iMac anytime soon.

I get real work done on an iPad Pro all day, every day.

I'm sure there are tasks that are still better suited to a Mac, but I feel mainly those resisting change just don't want to adapt their workflows for the computing platforms of the future.
 
I have yet to touch the Touch Bar on my 2018 MacPro. It’s the biggest flop of a feature I can remember.

For me it's the opposite. On my 2018 MBP 15", I use it a lot. And it's especially helpful with music and video editing. But I wouldn't deem it 100% necessary. I can live without it easily, but I'm glad it exists.
 
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Doubtful anybody uses Intel iGPU for machine learning.

Most developers don't need that much of a GPU. I'm more concerned about the VMware performance than anything.

Game developers obviously won't be using this MacBook at all. You can train a neural network on a remote machine, and use the Mac as a terminal. Most of the time we just type code, which is like word processing.

Debugging causes the heaviest burden, especially because debug code runs 100-1000 times slower than release code. But we usually simplify the input before debugging. And you can use build servers and even remote debugging wirelessly, while your terminal is still portable.

Most programmers don't even build full projects, they only deal with a small module at a time, especially at big companies. And the more senior you are, the more you're communicating, attending meetings, delegating and reviewing the code that others write. And those senior devs are the ones who need an ultrabook the most for a higher degree of mobility, either within the company, or while traveling. They presumably do the toughest debugging chores on their desktop machine.

Consider those who need to work out in the field, bring the code close to heavy machinery, or demonstrate to clients. There's plenty of market for portable developers, and the lack of the GPU is rarely a big problem. We developers sometimes have an early morning meeting to attend from home, or an emergency support issue that we can quickly fix late night without driving back to the office. There are many reasons devs want an ultrabook.
 
Lots of debate on here as to what is real work etc. Depends on what you need done. A musician using mainstage for live performance or producing music in logic or pro tools can’t use an iPad Pro, as an example. A graphic artist might be able to use just an iPad Pro. Word processing and office tools are pretty useful on either platform. Let’s not disparage others’ work as “not real work”, just because it can be accomplished on a tablet. It’s up to the individual and what’s great is that Apple provides a multitude of products to meet different uses. Obviously Apple sells a ton of all of these products as a result.
 
Lots of debate on here as to what is real work etc. Depends on what you need done. A musician using mainstage for live performance or producing music in logic or pro tools can’t use an iPad Pro, as an example. A graphic artist might be able to use just an iPad Pro. Word processing and office tools are pretty useful on either platform. Let’s not disparage others’ work as “not real work”, just because it can be accomplished on a tablet. It’s up to the individual and what’s great is that Apple provides a multitude of products to meet different uses. Obviously Apple sells a ton of all of these products as a result.

On the topic of word processing, I really wish Microsoft would pull the finger out and make Office more capable. There is no technical reason to have a word processor that can't generate a table of contents. I suspect it's crippled mainly because Microsoft estimate they could lose a not insignificant part of their own Windows user base for whom Office is work. It's particularly a shame because I think what capability is there is very nicely done indeed.

The particular limitation I mention can be worked around by having templates with TOCs in them. Mobile Word is perfectly capable of updating existing TOCs, which only serves as evidence it's an arbitrary limitation.
 
Prompt 2 from Panic.
I have it. It's great for what it is. It is not multiple windows at once. You can keep several sessions alive, but you can't have multiple windows open at once. And those are ssh sessions to remote servers, NOT local terminal windows. I said half a dozen local terminal windows. So, your answer completely misses the mark.
 
As soon as you tell me how to get a half dozen local terminal windows on an iPad Pro. If I can't get to a shell prompt (or a lot of shell prompts), it can't take over completely from my MBP.

Blink app and Mosh. You're welcome.
 
No I haven't. Please point to where I said that.

People use iPads in a professional setting. Great, I don't think anybody would've disputed that but the fact is they are far more limited than a fully fledged computer.

You can only run software that Apple approves , that fact alone makes the iPad way more limited than a Mac/a PC. You could use a pro app for your workflow on iOS and Apple could ban it and that would be the end of that.

Great deflection attempt, you actually claimed the iPad was ‘useless for MOST professional applications’ and is only good for ‘browsing and Facebook’ my point was to prove otherwise..... the iPad is uses in loads of applications you can’t even think off it seems.

Disagree. iPad Pro is useless for most professional applications. It’s fine for browsing Facebook, though.
 
So let's say I want at least a 256GB SSD... is there a reason why I would upgrade the low-end MBP to a 1.7GHz i7, rather than just going for the base version of the high-end model? The latter has a 2.4GHz i5, a slightly better video card, and two extra Thunderbolt ports, for the same price of $1799!

Agreed - $1299 sounds really sexy until you configure 16GB/512GB (really minimums to get any work done and to guard against OS bloat) and you are at $1899.
 
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Great deflection attempt, you actually claimed the iPad was ‘useless for MOST professional applications’ and is only good for ‘browsing and Facebook’ my point was to prove otherwise..... the iPad is uses in loads of applications you can’t even think off it seems.

Erm, the post you have quoted wasn't posted by me. I never said any of that.
 
not sur I understand the thing about 2 cores, still need all the cores possible; but yeah I figured the 4 thunderbolts model also has 2 fans.

"2 cores" worth of work covers lots of workloads. For folks who have some deep need to engage 4 cores with constant work for double digit minutes ( or hours ) at a time on "wall socket" power , then the 2 fan model would be incrementally better. However, for many mixed loads and run primarily on battery the 1.4GHz model is probably better (if primarily need a mobile laptop and not a periodically mobile desktop which sits in one/two locations about every day. ) .


About the TDP, I don't understand if it's a logic limitation backed into the processor; or just a guideline for manufacturers to scale their cooling system?

TDP is Thermal Design Power. It is Thermal mark the system should be designed for. Usually there is a group of CPUs/GPUs that have the same TDP ( more larger group in typical CPU product SKU groupings). Those can all use the same coolers. Where the cooling system is primarily integrated into the system, it isn't just the "cooling subsystem". It is also not just cooling as source power is coupled to that also ( bigger TDP probably means you need a bigger power supply also. Which has impact on system design. ).

Why does Intel use the same chip die to deliver two different product TDP grouping SKU , because coming up with the base design for a die costs many, many millions of dollars.
[ aside: most of the "MBP thermal throlling" rants are about the MBP cases not handling the Intel CPU that are grossly going over their TDP ratings. It isn't that Apple has designed under those, just not out to the max that the CPU can ask for with the default Intel firmware setting..... which is higher than Intel docs state. It is on Apple to cap that to something closer to the spec if that is what they designed to. ]


That said the TDP is more so a normal operating range guidance. Many of Intel's 6-8 core CPU models these day blow way past their "rated" TDP limit. For the context of these two MBP 13" models the i7's are probably closer to be violators than the i5 options. However, probably not in huge deviations with these 4 core models.


wouldn't this 1.4 Ghz processor perform exactly the same as the 2.4 Ghz with the same cooling system?

Overall? No. Because the chips have self limiting features that can be set. The "max clock" is a setting. If set to 1.4GHz the cooling system can huff and puff and hard as it can.... the CPU won't clock any faster that what the "max clock" setting says. [ You may be confusing with "unlocked' CPUs where the end user can 'plug-in' any 'max clock" setting they want to. Those aren't sold in the mobile space, because typically in vast majority of mobile enclosures that is a bad idea. ]

Workloads which invoked Turbo ( mostly single core with just some dual core ) there are some cases where the 1.4 might do incrementally better if it had the 4 port cooler. However, once you engage all four core for extended time workloads there would be a gap. The 2.4 probably isn' going to generate so much heat that it will underclock itself down to 1.4GHz. ( presuming were not impeding the enclosure somehow: high ambient temp , blocking vents , or interfering with cooling from the case bottom. )
 
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My 7 year old MacBook Pro isn't that much slower than this. However, those numbers are meaningless; sure it can perform well in short bursts (Geekbench isn't exactly an intense benchmark) but can it perform like that over 15 minutes? 30 minutes? 2 hours? Try running handbrake for an extended length of time, exporting a movie from Adobe Premiere or rendering some kind of 3D animation.

The bottleneck for MacBooks has always been the terrible cooling implementation. Once it goes over the 90c mark, you know things will downclock on the CPU to keep it from having a meltdown.

Mine's eight years old (early 2011), still running fine :)
 
I've never bought a portable Mac. Usually buy used or refurbed Mac Minis. Been using Macs since 1985. Today, though, after seeing all the positive reviews, and good entry price and coupled with positive personal finances under the current economic environment even though I have THREE adult offspring in higher education at the moment....and no longer dying of cancer... I really want to bite on this new MacBook Pro. The EDU pricing knocks $100 off price, 20% off Apple Care and FREE THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLAR Beat Studio Wireless noise cancelling headphones. (we have a variety of beats products already, but not these).

Tell me why one (I) should NOT pull trigger on this.
[Just bought a Windows 2-in-1 yesterday and another iPhone minutes ago.]
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That's not a reply, that's just quotingthe entire original article, which we can all already read. Please don't.

My apologies. I only meant to reply, hit a reply button, then saw there were two posts. unintended.
 
This is a post-modernist falsehood

Depends on your post-modernist needs. :)
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Disagree. iPad Pro is useless for most professional applications. It’s fine for browsing Facebook, though.

Omg, seriously? Another person confusing “professional” with “personal”. Procreate, Clip Studio Paint, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer - all professional applications. So is Word or Pages or Google Docs, depending on your profession. But, of course, let’s mention Facebook.
 
Depends on your post-modernist needs. :)
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Omg, seriously? Another person confusing “professional” with “personal”. Procreate, Clip Studio Paint, Affinity Photo, Affinity Designer - all professional applications. So is Word or Pages or Google Docs, depending on your profession. But, of course, let’s mention Facebook.

Eclipse, Netbeans, IntelliJ? Do any of these work?

Can I develop a Java, or C/C++ app for that matter on the iPad, run and debug it? You kinda can't, can you?
 
Eclipse, Netbeans, IntelliJ? Do any of these work?

Can I develop a Java, or C/C++ app for that matter on the iPad, run and debug it? You kinda can't, can you?

You also can’t play professional baseball with it. Of course there are tasks that you can’t do and apps you can’t run. This is not limited to iPads - you can’t do everything on anything.

In your case, you absolutely can’t do your work on an iPad. But, does that make an iPad “not a professional device just good for Facebook” for everyone?

Let’s not fool ourselves here: there is a lot of people on this forum that try to cynically present the iPad as some casual-use-only device even though there are more and more tasks and professions where iPad can not only replace, but even surpass traditional computers. And yet, a lot of people here insist it’s a toy for Facebook and Netflix. That is all. It’s that simple.

You
can’t use the iPad for your professional needs. That doesn’t make it a device incapable of professional work, running professional apps for a lot of people.
 
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I've never bought a portable Mac. Usually buy used or refurbed Mac Minis. Been using Macs since 1985. Today, though, after seeing all the positive reviews, and good entry price and coupled with positive personal finances under the current economic environment even though I have THREE adult offspring in higher education at the moment....and no longer dying of cancer... I really want to bite on this new MacBook Pro. The EDU pricing knocks $100 off price, 20% off Apple Care and FREE THREE HUNDRED AND FIFTY DOLLAR Beat Studio Wireless noise cancelling headphones. (we have a variety of beats products already, but not these).

Tell me why one (I) should NOT pull trigger on this.

The biggest reason would be that it comes with a controversial keyboard (notorious for reliability issues) that’s rumored to be replaced with a more reliable one sometime the next 12 months.

You may also not like its ports situation. You probably want to get some kind of dock.

Other than that, it’s pretty great.
 
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