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No, a retina MBP would not be the same real estate. I would bet you could configure it to run resolutions for more real estate in the same manner you can configure the 15" rMBP to run at 1920x. You don't seem to know what you are talking about.

I have no problem using 1920x1080 on a 13" at all, 1440x900 is too little real estate for me.

Yes you can run another reso, but it wont look as "sharp" as it would be native...

I still think is useless such a resolution in a small laptop that is intended to use on the go... For real work you (not talking about you, just a way of saying jt) should use a big monitor...

I dont think that the thunderbolt display could be nice to work whit a resolution of 5000+ x 3000+ it just makes no sense, i think more is not always better...
 
Yes you can run another reso, but it wont look as "sharp" as it would be native...

I still think is useless such a resolution in a small laptop that is intended to use on the go... For real work you (not talking about you, just a way of saying jt) should use a big monitor...

I dont think that the thunderbolt display could be nice to work whit a resolution of 5000+ x 3000+ it just makes no sense, i think more is not always better...

I find 1920x1080 useful mostly when just browsing the web. Then I can have a movie playing while browsing the web + have Matlab/Excel running. Cant fit all those windows properly on 1440x900.
 
I find 1920x1080 useful mostly when just browsing the web. Then I can have a movie playing while browsing the web + have Matlab/Excel running. Cant fit all those windows properly on 1440x900.
I understand that, i know, i use a full HD monitor in 17 inches, but have you tried it in 13 inches?? Thats the question i think... I of course think that 1920x1080 is a lot better than 1440x900 but thinking abou tthe size of the screen, full hd in such a small screen is a waste, you probably have to increase the font size including while browsing so i dont see the point...
 
I understand that, i know, i use a full HD monitor in 17 inches, but have you tried it in 13 inches?? Thats the question i think... I of course think that 1920x1080 is a lot better than 1440x900 but thinking abou tthe size of the screen, full hd in such a small screen is a waste, you probably have to increase the font size including while browsing so i dont see the point...

Yes I've used 1920x1080 on a 13" and I did not need to increase font size at all.
 
Yeah, for me the sweet spot with resolution is a 1920x1080 (or 1920x1200) on 13". I wouldn't want much more though (I am not talking scaled here).

I run 1920x1080 on a 15" Windows laptop and I find myself bending my neck down too many times to look at the screen... and I have 20/20+ vision.

I can't imagine running this res. on a 13" :eek:
 
I run 1920x1080 on a 15" Windows laptop and I find myself bending my neck down too many times to look at the screen... and I have 20/20+ vision.

I can't imagine running this res. on a 13" :eek:

Exactly what i think, i find it perfect in 17" but in 13" is a little too much...
 
Get the Air. And as other's have noted, you could probably do better going with the 256gb drive and just use an external usb3 drive (unless you're currently actively using or needing 512gb).

I went with a 128 last year even though I had more than 256gb stored on my old mbp. Doing a little house cleaning goes a long way - as I dumped all those "must keep" files I don't need everyday access to onto an GTech mini that is connected to my TM. I keep about 50gb of free space on the Air now, moving old unused files / photos as needed. It's a great habit to clean things up on a regular basis, much like cleaning your junk drawer or closet is.
 
I run 1920x1080 on a 15" Windows laptop and I find myself bending my neck down too many times to look at the screen... and I have 20/20+ vision.

I can't imagine running this res. on a 13" :eek:

I had no issues at all sitting a weekend with a 13" 1920x1080 13" laptop. Didn't have to get close at all. 1680x1050 would most likely be ideal for a wide range of people though, not too big and not too small.

That said I ordered a 13" MBA today, I'll have to live with the resolution for a while longer. On a different note it's cool that I can order a computer at 3-4 PM today and estimated delivery time is tomorrow, did choose express delivery though.
 
I had no issues at all sitting a weekend with a 13" 1920x1080 13" laptop. Didn't have to get close at all. 1680x1050 would most likely be ideal for a wide range of people though, not too big and not too small.

That said I ordered a 13" MBA today, I'll have to live with the resolution for a while longer. On a different note it's cool that I can order a computer at 3-4 PM today and estimated delivery time is tomorrow, did choose express delivery though.

Congrats on your purchase, you will love the computer, is an outstanding piece of engineering
 
Congrats on your purchase, you will love the computer, is an outstanding piece of engineering

Yeah, it seems it's just like the 2011 MBA I had and sold, just better :p. Even though the resolution was not as good as the competition (Asus Zenbook UX32VD with 1920x1080), as package the MBA wins hands down.
 
A rMBP 13" could be possible, remember the rMBP do not taper like the MBA. So since the rMBP loses the DVD drive and the rumors say it could use the Sharp IGZO screen, means Apple could afford the space of a discrete graphics chip and still have plenty of room for battery power.
 
Well the 13" MBP is kinda in a weird place already in many people's eyes already since the performance difference between it and the air is very small. Then there's those who appreciate the ethernet, optical drive and replaceable parts. And well, they have their model for this year, at least.

The 13" MacBook Pro is still their most popular model and a lot of people are much more reluctant to move away from internal optical drives. Frankly, I also find the prospect of carrying around Apple's USB Super-Drive to be annoying, though when it inevitably breaks out of warranty, a new one will be $79 if not less, whereas the internal optical drive replacement out of warranty is easily double that cost. Still, it's a nice convenience that a lot of people still like having. Selling those people on external optical drives is harder than most on here might think. If anything, Apple will wait the longest to discontinue the current one as we know it. Whether it is replaced by a retina MacBook Pro or a more powerful retina MacBook Air remains to be seen.

The ultimate MBA does have double the SSD storage space of the base rMBP, but if you're going to spend THAT kind of money get the rMBP.

$2200 for a laptop is a pretty ridiculous amount of money IMO, but if you want it, get it.

Storage space is huge given that (a) there currently aren't upgrade SSDs for the rMBP and (b) upgrading the SSD on either the MBA or the rMBP voids AppleCare and requires an annoying proprietary screw-driver type. Plus in 2012 with only a handful of developers (both web and app) take advantage of that display making it more of an annoyance than a blessing until this changes.

Davidkoh does the air have a quite a bad resolution? I read reviews on amazon and everybody mentions how good the display is, however, I trust what you guys say more.

I notice on wikiedpia that the air has been sporting the same resolution since late 2010.

The 13" Pro has 1280x800, the 13" Air has 1400x900. Most 13" machines on the market, be they ultrabooks or not, sport the former resolution. The resolution as it stands on the 13" Air is actually impressive. That being said, a higher resolution than 1400x900 is ridiculous unless it is done in the higher-pixel-per-inch-count fashion as is done on the rMBP. If you need more physical screen real-estate, buy a computer with a larger screen.

I think only the haswell CPU with the HD 5000(?) can handle 2560x1600 and two Thunderbolt Displays. So we will see the rMBP 13" in 2013 and not this year.

The current 15" rMBP is designed to be able to handle usage when being driven from the Intel HD 4000 in battery savings mode. Plus, there's no reason to not assume that a 13" rMBP would have fewer pixels and thusly less of a demand on the GPU to drive them. Also given that the 15" is historically a more powerful and higher-end machine, there's no reason to assume that Apple won't just give this model one Thunderbolt port and one HDMI port instead of the two Thunderbolt ports and one HDMI port count of the 15" model. Apple could easily unveil the 13" rMBP this calendar year. I agree that it's not likely given the nature of their current line-up, but as others have stated, perhaps they are using the 15" as a test to see how many people buy the classic design over the retina one.

from what's being rumoured, a 13" rMBPro may appear late Sept/early October.
price is an unknown, though it'd have to be dearer than the Air which makes the MBA the better value - hands down.

noting others comments about the pro's and cons of the 15" rMBP, Apple would need to get their stuff together to make a 13" model 'simply work'

the resolution in the Air is crisp bright and very readable
a 13" rMBP would provide that extra grunt that some users need, but that most of us don't.

it all comes down to value for money, but I wouldn't be holding off buying an Air to await (3 months at least) a rumoured rMBP

my $2 worth

It's highly unlikely that a 13" rMBP would have a discrete GPU to satisfy those that have craved one on the 13" MBP since its inception. At best, we'd see a very very weak version of Kepler that is not even in the same realm of performance as the one in the 15" MBP and rMBP. But to be fair, that alone would be enough to separate it from the Air. Quad-core is very unlikely to come to the 13" Pro in any form, Retina or not. Barring those improvements, there's very little separating a would-be 13" rMBP from a 13" Air, especially if the latter were to also be retinized.

No, a retina MBP would not be the same real estate. I would bet you could configure it to run resolutions for more real estate in the same manner you can configure the 15" rMBP to run at 1920x. You don't seem to know what you are talking about.

I have no problem using 1920x1080 on a 13" at all, 1440x900 is too little real estate for me.

Again, for such a small panel, why not just buy a computer with a physically larger screen?
 
The 13" Pro has 1280x800, the 13" Air has 1400x900. Most 13" machines on the market, be they ultrabooks or not, sport the former resolution. The resolution as it stands on the 13" Air is actually impressive. That being said, a higher resolution than 1400x900 is ridiculous unless it is done in the higher-pixel-per-inch-count fashion as is done on the rMBP. If you need more physical screen real-estate, buy a computer with a larger screen.

If you compare the 13" machines launched 2012 in the premium segment many of them have 1600x900 + in resolution (a bit better than the Airs 1440x900). The 13" Air screen is impressive only if you compare it to low end plastic computers. Once we start looking at the main competitors at the same price point as the Air we see 1600x900 or higher resolutions and way better panel types than the TN in the Air (PLS, IPS)


Again, for such a small panel, why not just buy a computer with a physically larger screen?

Weight and portability, otherwise I would have gotten the rMBP instead of my 13" Air. Hopefully Apple will launch a 13" rMBP at around 1.6 Kg, that would be an okay compromise for me granted that it comes with a dedicated GPU.
 
I wonder when soonest we will see a retina air

Unlikely, I think. What would be the difference between a retina mba and mbp? Not to mention I doubt there is enough room in the air to cram in any extra battery power to power that high-res display.

I think apple will keep the air non-retina (but likely improve on its display anyways) to sufficiently differentiate it. It will remain the de-facto consumer laptop. Meanwhile, the Rmbp will be the new "pro".
 
The 13" MacBook Pro is still their most popular model and a lot of people are much more reluctant to move away from internal optical drives. Frankly, I also find the prospect of carrying around Apple's USB Super-Drive to be annoying, though when it inevitably breaks out of warranty, a new one will be $79 if not less, whereas the internal optical drive replacement out of warranty is easily double that cost. Still, it's a nice convenience that a lot of people still like having. Selling those people on external optical drives is harder than most on here might think. If anything, Apple will wait the longest to discontinue the current one as we know it. Whether it is replaced by a retina MacBook Pro or a more powerful retina MacBook Air remains to be seen.

Got any survey to back up your claim that most people still want and care for having an optical drive in their laptop? Or statistics on that the current 13" MBP is selling like hotcakes?

Apple might think it's a stubborn minority that really can't accept their laptop lacking an optical drive. I mean, their most expensive laptop available is lacking one, and that one is aimed at the professional userbase with the most demands.
 
If you compare the 13" machines launched 2012 in the premium segment many of them have 1600x900 + in resolution (a bit better than the Airs 1440x900). The 13" Air screen is impressive only if you compare it to low end plastic computers. Once we start looking at the main competitors at the same price point as the Air we see 1600x900 or higher resolutions and way better panel types than the TN in the Air (PLS, IPS)

I was unaware of the advancements made this year, only the fact that the 1280x800 resolution of The 13" MacBook Pro was horribly outdated. Still though, 1440x900 is plenty for a 13" screen. Any smaller and I'll need reading glasses. At that point, I'd really rather a physically larger display.

Weight and portability, otherwise I would have gotten the rMBP instead of my 13" Air. Hopefully Apple will launch a 13" rMBP at around 1.6 Kg, that would be an okay compromise for me granted that it comes with a dedicated GPU.

I wouldn't hold out much hope for the discrete GPU in the 13" rMBP. If anything, it'll be a grossly underpowered version of the Kelper chip in the 15" Notebooks. Though to be fair, at that point, I'm sure Apple would see little point to simply not using the Intel HD 4000 as they do on all of their other 13" Notebooks.

Got any survey to back up your claim that most people still want and care for having an optical drive in their laptop? Or statistics on that the current 13" MBP is selling like hotcakes?

Toward your first question, I have personally surveyed close to two thousand people, most of them preferred the 13" Pro over the 13" Air because the former has an optical drive where the latter doesn't. Most of those people don't care or even understand the other differences. That one stands out. Toward your second question, up until WWDC (and likely thereafter as well), the MacBook Pro was the best selling Mad on Apple's online store as well as Amazon and other Apple Authorized resellers.

Apple might think it's a stubborn minority that really can't accept their laptop lacking an optical drive. I mean, their most expensive laptop available is lacking one, and that one is aimed at the professional userbase with the most demands.

There's a difference between Apple pushing users toward abandoning optical discs and users opting to abandon them themselves. They're not doing it because we're not using it. They're doing it because they're Apple and if they want us to jump, they know we'll ask them "how high". And for the most part, it's true. Assuming that this is the last generation of the non-retina MacBook Pro design of the last four years, I will buy my non-retina MacBook Pro next week. But, despite how much I really dislike the design of the retina MacBook Pro. I know that my next MacBook Pro thereafter will have that new design and that I will have no choice in the matter. That won't stop me from buying it when that time comes.
 
I was unaware of the advancements made this year, only the fact that the 1280x800 resolution of The 13" MacBook Pro was horribly outdated. Still though, 1440x900 is plenty for a 13" screen. Any smaller and I'll need reading glasses. At that point, I'd really rather a physically larger display.

I would say that 1680x1050 shouldn't be a problem on 13" for anyone with decent vision although I prefer 1920x1080 on 13".


I wouldn't hold out much hope for the discrete GPU in the 13" rMBP. If anything, it'll be a grossly underpowered version of the Kelper chip in the 15" Notebooks. Though to be fair, at that point, I'm sure Apple would see little point to simply not using the Intel HD 4000 as they do on all of their other 13" Notebooks.

I actually think we will see a 640 or a bit lower in a 13" rMBP, and that is not underpowered at all. Sony managed to do that in a 13" with optical drive and all, so losing that should give Apple enough space to make it work.
 
If a 13" MBP had a discrete graphics option in it, I would be all over it.

I currently have the 15" pro from 2011 but I still find it too bulky for my preference really, the only reason I moved from a 13" was the discrete graphics option but now I am starting to realise maybe I don't need it, when I play a game I don't NEED to play on high settings all the time.

I am at a bit of a crossroads, I am considering a fully loaded 13" air, waiting to see what the rMBP 13 holds if it actually does come out, or actually just buy a gaming PC laptop to get a bit more serious about gaming and save about £500 over the price of my MBP.

If the MBP13 get's a refresh and it still only has the HD4000 in it then it's a no brainer to just buy the air, I got my wife one last month and they really are lovely and the portability means I wouldn't think twice about taking it everywhere with me whereas the 15" MBP is still quite heavy in my backpack.
 
I would say that 1680x1050 shouldn't be a problem on 13" for anyone with decent vision although I prefer 1920x1080 on 13".




I actually think we will see a 640 or a bit lower in a 13" rMBP, and that is not underpowered at all. Sony managed to do that in a 13" with optical drive and all, so losing that should give Apple enough space to make it work.

the only issue possibly is that with the 15 rMBP a ton of space is dedicated to the extra battery to power the display. Still, I think it needs at least a 640 to differentiate itself from the air and 13pro besides just the retina display.
 
If you compare the 13" machines launched 2012 in the premium segment many of them have 1600x900 + in resolution (a bit better than the Airs 1440x900). The 13" Air screen is impressive only if you compare it to low end plastic computers. Once we start looking at the main competitors at the same price point as the Air we see 1600x900 or higher resolutions and way better panel types than the TN in the Air (PLS, IPS)

Agreed about the resolution. IF a 13 inch MBPR was to be made, I'd hope the native resolution was 1400x900 rather than 1280x800.

Also I'm not sure a retina MBPR really needs discrete graphics. A strong integrated platform could work well IMO and would help with space and price.
 
I would say that 1680x1050 shouldn't be a problem on 13" for anyone with decent vision although I prefer 1920x1080 on 13".




I actually think we will see a 640 or a bit lower in a 13" rMBP, and that is not underpowered at all. Sony managed to do that in a 13" with optical drive and all, so losing that should give Apple enough space to make it work.

Making a laptop thinner makes it HARDER to include a discrete GPU where there wasn't any before. Not easier. Removing the optical drive does little to change that as that space reduction is lost on making the machine thinner. If Apple retained the thickness of the non-retina 15" MBP in making the retina, then we could've easily had double the SSD storage with multiple mSATA slots. Instead, most of that machine is unremovable battery and the tech specs are otherwise identical to the higher-end non-retina model.
 
Toward your first question, I have personally surveyed close to two thousand people, most of them preferred the 13" Pro over the 13" Air because the former has an optical drive where the latter doesn't. Most of those people don't care or even understand the other differences. That one stands out. Toward your second question, up until WWDC (and likely thereafter as well), the MacBook Pro was the best selling Mad on Apple's online store as well as Amazon and other Apple Authorized resellers.

There's a difference between Apple pushing users toward abandoning optical discs and users opting to abandon them themselves. They're not doing it because we're not using it. They're doing it because they're Apple and if they want us to jump, they know we'll ask them "how high". And for the most part, it's true. Assuming that this is the last generation of the non-retina MacBook Pro design of the last four years, I will buy my non-retina MacBook Pro next week. But, despite how much I really dislike the design of the retina MacBook Pro. I know that my next MacBook Pro thereafter will have that new design and that I will have no choice in the matter. That won't stop me from buying it when that time comes.

This is a great post. Firstly for your wonderful response to the 'got any evidence' question, and secondly for your having noted that Apple aren't removing the optical drives because that's what the user wants. It's because it suits them, and they want to force through the change.
 
This is a great post. Firstly for your wonderful response to the 'got any evidence' question, and secondly for your having noted that Apple aren't removing the optical drives because that's what the user wants. It's because it suits them, and they want to force through the change.

I'm not so sure about that. Personally I've had my MacBook for more than 4 years and could probably count on 1 hand how many times I used it. Pretty sure the last time I actually used it was to upgrade my system to Snow Leopard.

USB and external harddrives have taken the onus away from CD/DVDs so Apple removed the optibay to create more space.

I know other people surely use the optibay but based on personal experience, I'm glad they removed it to make space for something else.

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Does anyone know if a new 13 inch rMBP will be released soon? The rumour mill has died down a bit...
 
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