Beeper App That Created Workaround for iMessage on Android Acquired by WordPress Owner Automattic

[nightfox818]

Fix and clean up Wordpress, every other malware outbreak seems to come from Wordpress (slightly joking)

I will say the core software has gotten a lot better and now it seems mostly the plugin developers introducing vulnerabilities, but it seems like there’s a lot of work they could do in the core to help prevent those vulnerabilities.

Must be a lot of money in open source GPL software.

There is. Just ask IBM/Red Hat 😂

Sarcasm aside, I have no idea why but whenever I think of Wordpress I think of niche blogs from the 2010s that seem really sketchy and untrustworthy, yet hold valuable information.

Like NASA.gov? Because they even moved their website to WordPress! Meanwhile when I run into a niche site that isn’t running WordPress, it warms my heart.

 

[bodhisattva]

Beeper is more like using stolen phone service that the person you got it from insists is his right to use and redistribute, despite the fact that the phone company owns and operates all the infrastructure.

Right..I bought a phone, I should get to use the service for free!

 

[bodhisattva]

Sarcasm aside, I have no idea why but whenever I think of Wordpress I think of niche blogs from the 2010s that seem really sketchy and untrustworthy, yet hold valuable information.

For years I developed hundreds of small business websites (before developing for mobile now). I can say, I only touched Wordpress when someone came to me with an existing site built in that mess, asking for minor updates. In all my years working in web, Wordpress was like a magnet for those trying to hack, disrupt, or otherwise insert malicious code. The number of sites, and servers I had to wipe over the years because of that mess of a codebase is more than I can count at this point. I spent more time updating, fixing what the update broke, and attempting to improve upon the sketchy one-size-fits-all codebase, it wasn't worth it. I would charge far more for maintaining a WP site than I ever did just creating a robust great site from scratch.

 

[CapitalIdea]

Didn’t people get bored of Trillian a long time ago?

 

[Beautyspin]

Now I am slightly worried that [Matt] will ruin Day One…why in the heck buy Beeper?

If they try anything again, Apple will probably sue them out of existence even with the world govs watching.

Fix and clean up Wordpress, every other malware outbreak seems to come from Wordpress (slightly joking)

Maybe, contrary to Apple apologists/sponsored articles, there are people who think the DOJ will succeed in its Antitrust against Apple and are not afraid to put their money to support their convictions instead of just writing random articles which requires nothing from them.

 

[Beautyspin]

As often with acquisitions, they probably just want the knowledge, technology and potential patents and you won't actually see another product that is similar to what they did before.

Maybe, now that they have the wherewithal, they will take on Apple, via DOJ of course.

 

[CarAnalogy]

Right..I bought a phone, I should get to use the service for free!

In this case he didn't even buy the phone! He broke into the "phone" system using forged credentials and then built a system for others to use based on that, and frames it as Apple somehow wronging him. Yes, they are blocking him, and lots of other hackers as well.

There might be an argument to be made about iMessage, but their framing of it is absolutely ass backwards.

 

[maxoakland]

I wonder why Wordpress would want this

 

[CarAnalogy]

I wonder why Wordpress would want this

Unfortunately, "Wordpress" doesn't want anything anymore. It has been subsumed by its corporate overlords. What they want is quarterly profit.

Still, it's a damn good question why anyone would want this.

 

[CarAnalogy]

Beeper mini aside, well, just like Netflix, one company tried to unite an industry but end up finding more companies popping up wanting to take a piece of the pie of their own. Today’s message apps are like cable TV and beeper is like Netflix back in the day.

Will this work? I don’t know and I can only let time to tell.

I often agree with you and I get where you're coming from, and I'd agree if only he hadn't hacked iMessage. Look into the technical details of what they did. I run services. If someone did this to me, I'd block/sue/bring charges under CFAA against them.

If they only wanted to unify messaging services that are willing to be unified, great.

I draw the line somewhere around forging authentication IDs to hack into other people's services. Maybe I'm old, but there it is. I think anyone who has ever been on the providing side of a service would probably agree with me.

 

[Shirasaki]

I often agree with you and I get where you're coming from, and I'd agree if only he hadn't hacked iMessage. Look into the technical details of what they did. I run services. If someone did this to me, I'd block/sue/bring charges under CFAA against them.

If they only wanted to unify messaging services that are willing to be unified, great.

I draw the line somewhere around forging authentication IDs to hack into other people's services. Maybe I'm old, but there it is. I think anyone who has ever been on the providing side of a service would probably agree with me.

I would say beeper mini Would never need to exist if apple is more open to not lock their messaging platforms. Hacks of this nature exists everywhere On every level. While I agree beeper trying to push their hacking workaround publicly and providing it as a service (forgot if it was paid or not) is not a good thing to do, I applaud them for sending a strong message to Apple and the rest of tech world that people desire one app to message everyone else on other platforms.

 

[CarAnalogy]

I would say beeper mini Would never need to exist if apple is more open to not lock their messaging platforms.

I agree with the sentiment, but I gotta take this one line by line.

I don't like a lot of the consequences of this fact either, but the fact remains that it is their platform. It's locking it like locking their own office doors. It's their right. That might be an issue of fundamental philosophy, but I believe it remains relevant as far as the law is concerned.

If they hadn't petitioned the government on this issue I might be ever so slightly more sympathetic. But as I said, I believe their framing is essentially lying, and they are lying to people whom it is especially bad to lie to. And I call it lying because I explicitly do not believe that they believe that what they are saying is an objective representation of reality, exactly the same way they would see it if someone did it to them.

Hacks of this nature exists everywhere On every level.

Indeed, and I support this concept.

While I agree beeper trying to push their hacking workaround publicly

I believe this was the equivalent of publishing Proof of Concept code and directly led to a flood of iMessage spam which I personally experienced.

and providing it as a service (forgot if it was paid or not)

I don't know the details but I remember it was initially paid and after the first round of Apple's countermeasures they declared that it is completely free. I believe they did this in part because the penalties for commercial exploitation are more severe than for non-commercial exploitation.

is not a good thing to do,

Yes and the government is supposed to agree with you for the reasons outlined above, not bring the service provider to court. This is why I believe the entire charge is ludicrous. What Beeper did is literally illegal, I don't understand how it got twisted around the other way.

I applaud them for sending a strong message to Apple and the rest of tech world that people desire one app to message everyone else on other platforms.

By this logic, what Epic did was applaudable as well. The message is separate from the means. One can do the right thing for the wrong reasons, and vice versa.

Please don't think I'm personally picking your post apart. Thank you for the opportunity to express a lot of things I've been thinking about this issue. I welcome your, or any other, counterpoints.

 

[Shirasaki]

Please don't think I'm personally picking your post apart. Thank you for the opportunity to express a lot of things I've been thinking about this issue. I welcome your, or any other, counterpoints.

I welcome you to pick my post apart and express your opinion. Safe to say we are not in total agreement on this specific topic and issue. My sentiment leans more towards smaller players over big ones like Apple, so I’m biased on that front, even if what beeple did would be considered illegal, or as you put it: do the wrong thing for the right reason and vice versa.

Apple is big, and influential, and powerful. As such, the normal “this is their lawn so however they treat it should not be anyone else’s business” does not really apply anymore, unless apple’s decision is strictly affecting only themselves with little collateral damage.

Take this message interoperability as an example. We can see lots of people are fed up with having to install 10+ different messaging platform apps just to maintain various social circles, yet because of a few companies such as Apple, we still have to install several messaging apps to get along with other people online. Me have 3.

Then beeple shows up, hacking their way into providing message interoperability between Apple and android. Wrong way to do it? Very much so. Intention? I’d argue is very good. Apple should realise not all of their decisions can be argued as NIMBY anymore, and their massive influence on individual and smaller business can be devastating.

Hence while I don’t support beeple’s way to achieve interoperability, I applaud their intention.

 

[zapmymac]

Maybe, contrary to Apple apologists/sponsored articles, there are people who think the DOJ will succeed in its Antitrust against Apple and are not afraid to put their money to support their convictions instead of just writing random articles which requires nothing from them.

right there with you. Imo, its time to split Apple up as well.

 

[zapmymac]

I will say the core software has gotten a lot better and now it seems mostly the plugin developers introducing vulnerabilities, but it seems like there’s a lot of work they could do in the core to help prevent those vulnerabilities.

There is. Just ask IBM/Red Hat 😂

Like NASA.gov? Because they even moved their website to WordPress! Meanwhile when I run into a niche site that isn’t running WordPress, it warms my heart.

Interesting about NASA! Sounds like Wordpress needs more oversight for their authorized plug-ins then...I have been happy with Day One, so that usually means their good run is about to end...that seems be be the typical way a good site/app/program goes when it is bought /:

 

[CarAnalogy]

I welcome you to pick my post apart and express your opinion. Safe to say we are not in total agreement on this specific topic and issue. My sentiment leans more towards smaller players over big ones like Apple, so I’m biased on that front, even if what beeple did would be considered illegal, or as you put it: do the wrong thing for the right reason and vice versa.

Apple is big, and influential, and powerful. As such, the normal “this is their lawn so however they treat it should not be anyone else’s business” does not really apply anymore, unless apple’s decision is strictly affecting only themselves with little collateral damage.

Take this message interoperability as an example. We can see lots of people are fed up with having to install 10+ different messaging platform apps just to maintain various social circles, yet because of a few companies such as Apple, we still have to install several messaging apps to get along with other people online. Me have 3.

Then beeple shows up, hacking their way into providing message interoperability between Apple and android. Wrong way to do it? Very much so. Intention? I’d argue is very good. Apple should realise not all of their decisions can be argued as NIMBY anymore, and their massive influence on individual and smaller business can be devastating.

Hence while I don’t support beeple’s way to achieve interoperability, I applaud their intention.

This is a case of philosophy running up against reality. In theory, maybe. When it's something like a railroad or power or the one and only physical data line allowed to be run, yes. They are too big to just do what they want at some point.

I just don't think iMessage falls into that category. This is more about technical interference with a technical system.

Look at WhatsApp. Meta seems less opposed to trying to be interoperable, but you can see even then they had to release a document on how that would even work.

I get where you're coming from, but they can't just hack into someone's system and then expect the law to be on their side when they're blocked from that system.

I don't think either of us have enough information to truly say what his/their intention was. My interpretation isn't as charitable as some.

I just don't think Migicovsky would feel the same if someone did it to him. Imagine Beeper became very successful and charges a fee, as they intended to. Now imagine someone finds a way to use Beeper without paying that fee. And then tells many, many other people how to do it. And then insists it's their right to use the system he built, just because they want to talk to their friends who are on it, but don't want to pay the fee.

That's basically what happened here. Except that the fee is buying a device with iOS on it.