Before I buy Late 2011 15-inch...

[What?Say,What?]

Hello, I'm looking at the two 15 inch models of the just refreshed MacBook Pro.
One with 2.2GHz + 512MB 6750 vs. 2.4GHz + 1GB 6770. (I might also be able to wait depending on the answers to the below questions):

- Can I install 10.6.8? ( I basically have everything how I want it, tons of apps running at once).

- are the specs correct? I saw someone saying the 6750 is just an underclocked 6770? (Can I use the overclocking tools in the guide here on macrumors to overclock from Fusion?, if i do bootcamp, will it stick when I reboot into Mac OS?)

- How much difference will I see in graphics performance with twice the memory 1GB vs. 512 ? ( I use 3 or 4 browsers at once, with dozens of tabs each, run iTunes, XCode, Photoshop, Logic, speech rec, video transcoding, devon, a dozen third party enhancement apps in the background, Strata 3D, illustrator, indesign, word, neoffice, excel, etc., etc. (no I don't use all the heavy hitters at once, just two or three, or four)... lead into next question:

-OpenCL: it's my understanding both of these cards support openCL, however, the built-in HD 3000 does not. In future implementations of Mac OS (i.e. 10.8) will this be a hindrance to me? Will there be OpenCL switching like there is GPU switching? Will this switching be wretched, like the first (or was it second) gen of MBP with two GPUs that had switching nightmares? Lastly what are the implications for my workflow with the above stated, will opencl/gpu ram not come into play? (it is my experience that a faster card even increases the rendering of webpages, however, like normal memory, does having WAY more than u need really help? Like having 32GB of Ram (possible with OWC kit) in my (non-existent) Mac Pro help me build non-huge files in Xcode faster than 16GB? I don't think openCL has been greatly expanded in 10.7 to my knowledge. When opencl becomes more prevalent I want to be ready!

-Will the next gen (ivy bridge) have a case redesign without FireWire 800, or an Optical drive? Just one soundport for in/out? ( could live w/o optical if i had to, but not the other two.)


I'm coming from a Late 2009 15-inch 2.53Ghz with 256mb 9400m.
It's a loaner from work, but I work the thing really hard, it can't really keep up, and the other day there were messed up graphic artifacts on the screen in a safari window when i woke it up (could be the display I guess). It's only a matter of time before this thing blows up on me probably (yes I have a fan under it, and no, the fans aren't running at max all day).

Basically I'm a desktop guy, but I need to be mobile, and the Mac Pro's are too $$$, I have education discount BTW b/c I work at a school.

Yes, I done a bunch of reading on this, but I'm still unclear on some of it, that's why I'm asking.

Thanks to anyone who even answers one of these questions, didn't mean to be so breathy, just clear.

 

[alust2013]

No, you cannot install 10.6.8, if you really want to do that, buy a refurb 2.2GHz that has the 1GB 6750m.

Yes, the 6750m is simply a lower-clocked version of the 6770m, but I'm fairly certain that it will not overclock in OS X. That said, it doesn't really seem like you need the overclocking anyhow.

Video memory will do basically nothing for performance of several apps open at once. It is only concerned with what is on the screen(s) at the moment

Not really sure about openCL or if it's really relevant to your work

No one really knows what the next design will look like. Optical will most likely be gone, but outside of that, it's completely speculation. I suspect, however, that if they want to continue the trend of making the MBPs more powerful with each iteration, that they will have to maintain a decent thickness to dissipate heat. As of now, there's no way they could stuff a quad into an ultrathin form like the air, but Ivy bridge is starting to work towards that.

So, I suppose the conclusion is that I would say the refurb 2.2GHz would be your best bet actually, since you want Snow Leopard, and it comes with more video memory if you're running multiple displays

 

[What?Say,What?]

Hey, thanks!

Thanks for answering most of my questions. I was worried about the OS issue the most... I kinda loathe 10.7... but anyway... I'll see what refurbs are going for just to keep that in mind. Still interested in openCL stuff ( i think photoshop is taking advantage of what I have now... but it's not a lot).

 

[daftpunkstu]

out of interest what is it that you don't like about lion?

i have to say I prefer snow leo but i wouldn't call it a deal breaker having lion

 

[GermanyChris]

out of interest what is it that you don't like about lion? Image i have to say I prefer snow leo but i wouldn't call it a deal breaker having lion

It's trendy not to like Lion..

 

[NutsNGum]

It's trendy not to like Lion..

I'm beginning to think that this is the case.

I think Lion's excellent, I've used Macs for years and to be honest, I don't see what all the fuss is with people complaining about it becoming too simplified.

Since when has ease of use become a problem?!

 

[GermanyChris]

I'm beginning to think that this is the case.

I think Lion's excellent, I've used Macs for years and to be honest, I don't see what all the fuss is with people complaining about it becoming too simplified.

Since when has ease of use become a problem?!

I bounced between lion and snow leopard and until .2 when my battery life came back..I like the new Expose/Spaces it makes way more sense to me than the "old" way. I also like Mission Control though I don't always use it. I dunno about versions being that MS Office doesn't support it.

P.S. I own nothing that is iOS so thats not the cause

 

[What?Say,What?]

On Lion:

Here's is my response to Lion, and then can we PLEASE return to my many OTHER original questions?

Well, for me, for the consideration of the purchase it is:
can I run everything exactly as I have it now, but wayyyy faster.
I am running so many programs on a regular basis, I have about 200 programs installed. I'd say I run over half of them during the course of a couple of weeks. A couple dozen or more every day, 10-20 simultaneously. Do I have the time to investigate whether or not all of these run flawlessly, or without a hitch for my workflow on lion? No. Also, I make it standard practice now days, having used Macs since before I could ride a bike, since about system 6, I am no longer an early adopter. I want the best computing experience I can manage for myself. Do you like pathfinder? I think it's great, I have a license, but I don't even have it installed at the moment because it didn't accomplish something intuitively that's necessary for one of my workflows, since I couldn't use it as a finder replacement, I didn't want to set up two programs to accomplish one set of tasks side by side in this way. I use two FTP programs (forklift failed me harder than almost any other app aside from TechTool Pro), but not always side by side, this is acceptable to me. I don't like having two programs that overlap too much in their place in my workflow, it annoys me, they have discreet functions, even if those functions are small.

I would never recommend anyone to upgrade to a new Mac OS until at least 2 or three months and at least 2 or core three system updates.

I only recently abandoned my last PPC binary last month! (as in no rosetta in lion?) some programs just refuse to run in lion (that others i work with are running). The core apps, addressbook and mail... I couldn't imagine that they would do anything but improve both of these apps that I rely on and are still much ignored in a functional way, but they didn't, they gave them some nominal "new" features, gave them a gui facelift and fixed one or two long standing glaring omissions (from a heavy use standpoint) out of many on a list.

The entire GUI makes me want to vom... apple has worked hard to make everything "pretty", and now they want to make everything "gray"... wtf? disgusting? That's why I restore my color icons in iTunes every couple of updates.

there are other things escaping me atm I'm sure...

 

[GermanyChris]

Here's is my response to Lion, and then can we PLEASE return to my many OTHER original questions?

Well, for me, for the consideration of the purchase it is:
can I run everything exactly as I have it now, but wayyyy faster.
I am running so many programs on a regular basis, I have about 200 programs installed. I'd say I run over half of them during the course of a couple of weeks. A couple dozen or more every day, 10-20 simultaneously. Do I have the time to investigate whether or not all of these run flawlessly, or without a hitch for my workflow on lion? No. Also, I make it standard practice now days, having used Macs since before I could ride a bike, since about system 6, I am no longer an early adopter. I want the best computing experience I can manage for myself. Do you like pathfinder? I think it's great, I have a license, but I don't even have it installed at the moment because it didn't accomplish something intuitively that's necessary for one of my workflows, since I couldn't use it as a finder replacement, I didn't want to set up two programs to accomplish one set of tasks side by side in this way. I use two FTP programs (forklift failed me harder than almost any other app aside from TechTool Pro), but not always side by side, this is acceptable to me. I don't like having two programs that overlap too much in their place in my workflow, it annoys me, they have discreet functions, even if those functions are small.

I would never recommend anyone to upgrade to a new Mac OS until at least 2 or three months and at least 2 or core three system updates.

I only recently abandoned my last PPC binary last month! (as in no rosetta in lion?) some programs just refuse to run in lion (that others i work with are running). The core apps, addressbook and mail... I couldn't imagine that they would do anything but improve both of these apps that I rely on and are still much ignored in a functional way, but they didn't, they gave them some nominal "new" features, gave them a gui facelift and fixed one or two long standing glaring omissions (from a heavy use standpoint) out of many on a list.

The entire GUI makes me want to vom... apple has worked hard to make everything "pretty", and now they want to make everything "gray"... wtf? disgusting? That's why I restore my color icons in iTunes every couple of updates.

there are other things escaping me atm I'm sure...

Your special HOW??

Many here have been with apple since the II like me...

If you made the conversion from PPC to Intel Lion shouldn't be an issue..

If you look at my sig I still actively use a G4 power book..

Lion is fine if you feed it RAM 10.8 will not require the RAM that 10.7 does, everything is cyclic..

PPC programs will not work with Lion and this surprises you why? PPC was discontinued in 2005 legacy code is not Apple.

 

[What?Say,What?]

?

Your special HOW??

Many here have been with apple since the II like me...

If you made the conversion from PPC to Intel Lion shouldn't be an issue..

If you look at my sig I still actively use a G4 power book..

Lion is fine if you feed it RAM 10.8 will not require the RAM that 10.7 does, everything is cyclic..

PPC programs will not work with Lion and this surprises you why? PPC was discontinued in 2005 legacy code is not Apple.

1. I do not claim to be special. That seems like an assumption. I was stating my many years of experience with upgrading, being an early adopter, I'm sorry you grossly misunderstood me, and had an unpleasant reaction as a result. On my part, my response was a little overzealous at having been accused of simply being "trendy" though I know not what this refers to, as I have only personally heard legitimate complaints about lion amongst a roar of approval from most people. I would consider it trendy to praise lion. this is my personal experience, which I admit is not based on the absorption of all related media on the topic world-wide.

2. ppc->intel does not equal sl-->lion. This is flawed logic, I'm sorry you do not see it, but I don't feel like breaking it down for you, especially since there is a glaring hint in my last two responses, this one included.

3. If you look at my sig you'll see i don't really care if people know or not that I ALSO have a last gen 12" pb. Or how about a G4 AGP. However neither of those are primary machines for me at the moment, or even used on a regular basis. Also I got 10.5 installed on an AMD machine. Is this a sufficient "comeback"?

4. I'd run 8gb ram to start (third party), then 16 when prices drop in a couple years. (this is what's so laughable about the intro Mac Pro --->3GB of Ram!!!!!!)

5. I do not control when and IF a developer releases a universal binary! When I said abandoned, this is how I was able to abandon it: because they released an updated version. I wasn't actually holding onto it for nostalgia. This isn't something you considered obviously. Additionally, since you are also claiming "surprise" on my part, which is wildly inaccurate and unfounded, let us take a hardware analogy: MOBOs with PS/2 ports, and pins for floppy drive cables. Would it have been a burden for apple to keep rosetta in lion? Probably not. Would it have noticeably slowed down the os overall for all apps including intel only binaries? Probably not. Would it have slowed down the computer if it weren't installed or not running? Probably not... ahem. Do I really need to reiterate how tightly apple likes to control their platform and products? Probab-- .... ooooo.... hmmm...


Chris, try not to be so abrasive, and a little more thoughtful. It just turns people off to posting on the 'net... I thought you were when I uprated one of your posts earlier today on a different thread.

Also, what do you guys think about Quad-channel memory addressing? Will they bring this to the Mac Platform with the next gen?
Of course if there are only two mem slots, like in the portables... I'm not sure how this would work... hehe... Maybe just for the mac pros and maybe imacs? That is, on a deeper level, could quad channel memory be successfully integrated into the next MBPs, unlikely though it is. Is it possible from a hardware standpoint, given say the same form-factor that the line has now. Like maybe could they make a new size of DIMM or something that is half the size, so they can fit four of em in? Sounds kinda ridiculous.

 

[GermanyChris]

1. I do not claim to be special. That seems like an assumption. I was stating my many years of experience with upgrading, being an early adopter, I'm sorry you grossly misunderstood me, and had an unpleasant reaction as a result. On my part, my response was a little overzealous at having been accused of simply being "trendy" though I know not what this refers to, as I have only personally heard legitimate complaints about lion amongst a roar of approval from most people. I would consider it trendy to praise lion. this is my personal experience, which I admit is not based on the absorption of all related media on the topic world-wide.

2. ppc->intel does not equal sl-->lion. This is flawed logic, I'm sorry you do not see it, but I don't feel like breaking it down for you, especially since there is a glaring hint in my last two responses, this one included.

3. If you look at my sig you'll see i don't really care if people know or not that I ALSO have a last gen 12" pb. Or how about a G4 AGP. However neither of those are primary machines for me at the moment, or even used on a regular basis. Also I got 10.5 installed on an AMD machine. Is this a sufficient "comeback"?

4. I'd run 8gb ram to start (third party), then 16 when prices drop in a couple years. (this is what's so laughable about the intro Mac Pro --->3GB of Ram!!!!!!)

5. I do not control when and IF a developer releases a universal binary! When I said abandoned, this is how I was able to abandon it: because they released an updated version. I wasn't actually holding onto it for nostalgia. This isn't something you considered obviously.


Chris, try not to be so abrasive, and a little more thoughtful. It just turns people off to posting on the 'net... I thought you were when I uprated one of your posts earlier today on a different thread.

Also, what do you guys think about Quad-channel memory addressing? Will they bring this to the Mac Platform with the next gen?
Of course if there are only two mem slots, like in the portables... I'm not sure how this would work... hehe... Maybe just for the mac pros and maybe imacs?

I'm abrasive when I want to be..and when I am I very much intend to be..PPC has BEEN GONE FOR 6 YEARS...If you use still use PPC apps sorry for you..

You are being trendy in your dislike for Lion...since you raise nothing specific combined with little knowledge of computers given the other thread..your opinions mean even less.

Most non-supported apps were long replaced to include Quick Books..google is your friend.."alternative to whatever program your using" will work wonders..

I am abrasive, I will always be abrasive mostly..My life has been centered around making things work since I was a young soldier..not making people happy and self confident..

 

[What?Say,What?]

Someone please tell me that this poor man is not representative of the macrumors forum community? I refuse to address him again. He is obviously illiterate, since he makes back to back posts that ignore information I have typed.

 

[calderone]

Someone please tell me that this poor man is not representative of the macrumors forum community? I refuse to address him again. He is obviously illiterate, since he makes back to back posts that ignore information I have typed.

He is not illiterate. If you spent two seconds to look under his name you would see he is from Germany, meaning English is not likely his first language.

You haven't posted any good reasons for disliking Lion IMO.

Honestly, most of your questions don't have real answers or the answer is self evident.

 

[Gurutech]

I'm thankful that my 17" MBP came with SL installation disc.
I have to use certain PPC remote client programs that can't be run on Lion. And overall SL is better in terms of performance.
Looks like I will be using SL for quite some time.

 

[NutsNGum]

He is not illiterate. If you spent two seconds to look under his name you would see he is from Germany, meaning English is not likely his first language.

You haven't posted any good reasons for disliking Lion IMO.

Honestly, most of your questions don't have real answers or the answer is self evident.

And the nail, is hit - squarely - upon the head.

 

[GermanyChris]

Someone please tell me that this poor man is not representative of the macrumors forum community? I refuse to address him again. He is obviously illiterate, since he makes back to back posts that ignore information I have typed.

I represent computer users..like it or not..you brought up nothing new and could be searched..my indecision and bouncing back and fourth are documented here...to out of the blue say I don't like something therefore will not purchase something that has it on it is silly..

OK here it goes, if you can find a computer built before Lion you can keep Snow Leopard and your PPC apps..then where will you be next year and the year after?? If you want to be in the Apple ecosystem you have to upgrade where is the iCloud support for 10.6???

You post pointless things and expect folks to be friendly...WHY??

Saying I don't like Lion because of versions..we can provide a solution...I don't like Lion because, is trendy...if you don't like it I don't much care..

 

[What?Say,What?]

He is pretending to be non-native now. He says in the Ram poll thread going on right now that he moved to germany from hawaii, and had to learn german... lmao. I didn't even need google.

Thanks for making good use of your keyboard gurutech. speed is def a concern. Well, the PPC thing, when I first mentioned it, it was only in the context of it no longer being a concern.

Problem is, though I never stated Lion to be make-or-break... I want a matte screen! (The anti-glare option) and those are MUCH harder to find in a used/refurbed, so I have to still consider moving to Lion, I had always stated this as something I would rather not do.

 

[squeakr]

He is pretending to be non-native now. He says in the Ram poll thread going on right now that he moved to germany from hawaii, and had to learn german... lmao. I didn't even need google.

I tend to agree with Chris and the others. I don't see where he claimed to be non-native. Just because someone thought so due to the location he has on his status doesn't mean that he claims to be non-native (his posts never stated such).

You come here asking for answers, and yet question everyones concerns and questions to you with an air. If you are so versed in technology and such a power user as you claim, then the majority of the questions would have easily been answered by a simple search. You claim to be time constricted due to you needs "work flows" and the lack of repetitive applications (the reason for the questions being asked here and answers needed quickly) yet have time to waste arguing back and forth with others.

I am liking Lion the more I use it and yes, keeping the rosetta code would have slowed the system and lessened its capabilities as it would have not been able to run fully in 64 bit (would have had to compromise like SL does to run rosetta apps, as SL doesn't natively boot in 64 bit mode). If you think Lion runs slow now, think how it would have run then (and we say lipstick on a real pig).

If one has legit reasons (i.e. as stated before needed to support legacy systems and programs) then I agree they have a valid complaint with Lion, but for those that just like to complain, I say try it for a while and see as change can be good.

Also, for the poster who said 10.8 will be better, with the price of RAM dropping and space and CPU speed growing exponentially, don't expect it. The days of efficient code are gone and little incentive exists to do so. We are a driven society and the faster we can rush it to production the better. Who cares if it is spaghetti code, bug ridden, and inefficient, the hardware will compensate for it. Think of what could have been accomplished on older OS's if we had todays hardware driving it??

 

[GermanyChris]

He is pretending to be non-native now. He says in the Ram poll thread going on right now that he moved to germany from hawaii, and had to learn german... lmao. I didn't even need google.

Thanks for making good use of your keyboard gurutech. speed is def a concern. Well, the PPC thing, when I first mentioned it, it was only in the context of it no longer being a concern.

Problem is, though I never stated Lion to be make-or-break... I want a matte screen! (The anti-glare option) and those are MUCH harder to find in a used/refurbed, so I have to still consider moving to Lion, I had always stated this as something I would rather not do.

LOL..really..I am a native American..born in Kalamazoo Mi, grew up in FL. I went to College at OSU..Joined the Army in 2000 did everything good infantrymen do was stationed in Ft. Drum..I PCS'ed from NY to HI, Schofield Barracks part of 2/5 IN..I married my German national wife in 2004 and moved to Germany in 2005 to be with my wife and by then daughter..I claim nothing more....

I have a bachelors in business administration..which means means nothing..I'm 35 working on an MBA which will get me nothing...

Is this OK or do you ned to know my pants size, my intramural weight as an OSU wrestler, the reason I couldn't make it as "real" athlete?

Am I allowed to be an ass now that I've shown that I'm American..or do I need to attach my DD214 and my diploma?

 

[thundersteele]

I would go for a early 2011 refurb (or find a shop that put them on sale, e.g. macmall or something like that... if they have the matte). There's one refurb matte on the apple online store right now.

That way, you get a MBP that is as fast as the late 2011 MBPs, but you don't have to upgrade to Lion right away.

Since my MBP is my main working machine, I only install the minor upgrades when there is a time period where I can afford to loose time getting everything back to run. The small version bumps so far have not messed up anything, but I'm being careful. I will only upgrade to Lion if I have a machine to fall back to (in this case, I will hopefully soon get a new MBP with Lion, and just keep the old one with SL).

Now, a problem for you is that the refurbished store does not give education discount. So you will end up paying more for an older machine. So honestly, as long as your old machine doesn't break, I would wait for the next generation of MBPs. That gives Lion some more time to mature, and program developers more time to catch up and deliver updates. Programs that don't get updates eventually have to be replaced anyways.


For the other questions:
The openCL one I don't understand. Noone knows what the Ivy bridge redesign will look like. Video ram is not so important, except for games mostly.

 

[What?Say,What?]

thanks!

thanks thundersteele for the info, when I checked the apple store earlier today there wasn't a matte screen available! They go like hot-cakes, so we'll see if I make the plunge before it's gone! I think I might need a moment to think though... and there's a good chance it'll be gone by then, maybe replaced with a new one? Let's hope.

 

[Ant.honey]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A334 Safari/7534.48.3)

FYI. The early 2011 MBP refurbs come with Lion preinstalled.

 

[thefizzle657]

thanks thundersteele for the info, when I checked the apple store earlier today there wasn't a matte screen available! They go like hot-cakes, so we'll see if I make the plunge before it's gone! I think I might need a moment to think though... and there's a good chance it'll be gone by then, maybe replaced with a new one? Let's hope.

http://store.apple.com/us/product/G0M1DLL/A
http://store.apple.com/us/product/G0M12LL/A
http://store.apple.com/us/product/G0M18LL/A
http://store.apple.com/us/product/G0M1ELL/A

 

[What?Say,What?]

i figured as much.

Yeah, ant.honey, but I think they might come with the SL discs? At least one user has reported that. Besides, I have an SL disc, so I could always do that, which I have no problems with. Clean installs is a not infrequent part of my mac usage...

yeah, thefizzle..., there are more everytime I look! When I checked a second time there was only ONE 2011 15-inch with matte, now there are four models! Thanks for the info! I didn't find the 500GB-7200 rpm, which is preferable.

 

[Ant.honey]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; CPU iPhone OS 5_0 like Mac OS X) AppleWebKit/534.46 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.1 Mobile/9A334 Safari/7534.48.3)

I've ordered two refurbs in the past two months, no SL discs.