Behind the Deal for Apple's North Carolina Data Center

[KidIcarus412]

Where are the AC units to cool that heat box?

Mechanical yard in the back most likely. You can see water storage towers in the picture.

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But they should have. And the design would be possible. Humans are somewhat bright.

This needs to be a change in thinking for more than just Apple.

Every hole in that roof is a potential leak. That is why you rarely see equipment on the roof. Penetrations to the building are almost always on the sides, hence the mechanical court yards.

 

[tech4all]

Duhhh. What are you talking about? Did you not read the article or look at the pictures properly? It is 500,000. Did you not notice the loading docks on the right.

I miss my down vote button.

So do I.

THe reason is because Apple employs professionals in everything they do.. and you are just a armchair president with employee of 1 (you) living in the basement of your mother's house and giving us your 'sound' advice.

DOWN VOTE BUTTON PLEASE

Obviously he has more experience with data centers that are much larger.. and 'it's not really that big' is obvious based on his objective experience.

How is that a valid question? When did Apple become a utility company? What corporate white paper states they MUST be sustainable? The EPEAT withdraw doesn't sound like it to me. Perhaps the poster should ask this very same question on the new Apple campus that will be built. From the rendered drawings I didn't see any panels either. It is easy in hindsight to point out subjective flaws but at the end of the day they think their assumptions and suggestions are better than the decisions made by a organization as large as apple.

Hey special snowflake. Every time you have a brain fart does not mean what you have said is engaging or of value.

That's your rebuttal? He gave you 3 distinct lead in reason plus I told you Apple is NOT a utility company which REQUIRES them to generate electricity and it is not their core product or service competency and you reply with REGARDLESS there is a lot of service area on the roof!? Okkkkk! YOU NAILED IT. One look from you just solved APPLE' major FLAW in their data center.

Hey.. these posters are obviously too smart and totally under utilized in their job. They have identified a MAJOR FLAW with APPLE's data center. What they should be doing is writing an email to Tim Cook.

Take a DEEP breath. There you go. Feel better?

Chill out dude. You're just some random poster on the Internet. Quit acting like you're SUPER DUPER PROFESSIONAL BOSS MAN.

 

[PeckhamBog]

I wonder if laying turf on the roof would be useful to reduce the summer temperature and provide a degree of insulation for any severe temperatures in winter?

[I hope oat me and all is afk and doesn't critique this]

 

[DUSTmurph]

The simple fact of the matter is that Apple is too broke to afford to put solar panels on the roof.

 

[chiefsilverback]

I wonder if laying turf on the roof would be useful to reduce the summer temperature and provide a degree of insulation for any severe temperatures in winter?

[I hope oat me and all is afk and doesn't critique this]

A rough estimate would suggest you'd need in excess of 5000 tons of soil to turf an area that size.

My assumptions are 3 - 4 inches of soil which would equate to 4500 - 6000 cubic feet of soil.

Calculating that got me to thinking about the snow and ice loads they might experience... An inch of ice over 500,000 sq ft would be nearly 2000 tons whilst 1 ft of heavily compacted snow over the same area would be nearly 7000 tons!

Final fact -allowing for an average annual rainfall of 48" in Maiden NC the roof of the Apple data center and therefore it's drainage system handles nearly 15 million gallons of water each year!

EDIT - Incidentally in the year 2000 the US used an average of 350 billion of gallons of water per day!

 

[mrelwood]

Isn't Reno a part of the UFO busy area? iPhone 6 will be partially extraterrestial? Cool!

What corporate white paper states they MUST be sustainable? The EPEAT withdraw doesn't sound like it to me.

You really should read more on the EPEAT matter before making assumptions like that. You are wrong.

 

[aaarrrgggh]

500kSF Solar Array

For everybody talking about solar, the power consumption of the data center is on the order of 200 watts per square foot, or about 1.7MWh per year. A solar array, made of the most efficient panels currently available would generate a peak of 25 W/SF, or 10% of daytime demand, and 0.036 MWh per year, or 2% of total energy consumption. It is a drop in the bucket.

The building roof is roughly 7% of the area of the solar array they are building. It is far more efficient to centralize the generation rather than break it up into little (useless) pieces. This is even more true for a data center, as you want to be careful where you hook the inverters up-- the peak power production exceeds your peak demand, so using the utility as a buffer helps to stabilize things.

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Where are the AC units to cool that heat box?

The cooling towers are between the two cylindrical water storage tanks. The chillers would appear to be in the low block adjacent. Can't tell how the air-side cooling is done, but based on the old construction photos it looks like it would just be CRAC units. (Terribly inefficient cooling solution for today, but not bad for a 10-year old design.)

 

[urbanlung]

Duhhh. What are you talking about? Did you not read the article or look at the pictures properly? It is 500,000. Did you not notice the loading docks on the right.

I miss my down vote button.

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THe reason is because Apple employs professionals in everything they do.. and you are just a armchair president with employee of 1 (you) living in the basement of your mother's house and giving us your 'sound' advice.

DOWN VOTE BUTTON PLEASE

I think it makes perfect sense to put solar panels on the roof. It hardly takes a scientist to realise that on the roof the panels will be at least 30 feet closer to the sun and so more efficient. Scientifically speaking you have to use the inverse square law:
30 x 30 = 900
Then inverse by subtracting 1
900 - 1 = 899
And multiply by the number of acres
899 x 180 = 161,820 horsepower of extra energy

 

[Four oF NINE]

I think it makes perfect sense to put solar panels on the roof. It hardly takes a scientist to realise that on the roof the panels will be at least 30 feet closer to the sun and so more efficient. Scientifically speaking you have to use the inverse square law:
30 x 30 = 900
Then inverse by subtracting 1
900 - 1 = 899
And multiply by the number of acres
899 x 180 = 161,820 horsepower of extra energy

So.. instead of being 512,160,000,000 feet from the sun, it would only be a mere 512,159,999,970 feet away?.. yeah.. I see your point.. That's a huge difference

 

[MacDav]

Why?

It needs to be at least 3 to 4 times bigger...

Why is that? Apple is building data centers on other sites as well. I'm sure they
have a pretty good idea of how much storage they need, and will build others as the need arises.

 

[G51989]

Where are the AC units to cool that heat box?

Data centers, and really large buildings in general use chillers, probably cooling towers in the back.

 

[MacDav]

So do I.












Take a DEEP breath. There you go. Feel better?

Chill out dude. You're just some random poster on the Internet. Quit acting like you're SUPER DUPER PROFESSIONAL BOSS MAN.

You seem to be the one who is bothered. Maybe you should take a deep breath.
The fact that someone has the audacity to question the rampant ignorance on this forum is what you are fighting against? You don't want any SUPER DUPER PROFESSIONAL BOSS MAN questioning your superior posts I guess.

 

[Orange Furball]

What kind of effect does this have on surrounding neighborhoods? (If there are any)

It just seems like this big of a project has to take some toll on neighborhoods.

 

[G51989]

The cooling towers are between the two cylindrical water storage tanks. The chillers would appear to be in the low block adjacent. Can't tell how the air-side cooling is done, but based on the old construction photos it looks like it would just be CRAC units. (Terribly inefficient cooling solution for today, but not bad for a 10-year old design.)

Don't see any RTUs, so they probably just used a bunch of water evaporators and used some chiller capacity.

Eh, as far as efficiceny goes, chillers are kinda garbage to start with. Unless you start getting into amonia units. ( yum )

 

[griz]

Wow, never imagined that such a simple observation would generate such a crapstorm. Oatmeal, you need to lighten up. There is nothing wrong with making an observation and hoping someone might be able to provide a logical response. Your responses have been nothing but antagonistic.

 

[BozieBoz]

Whoops... I was wondering why nobody has brought this up instead of focusing on the solar array. Must have not made it past local news.

Apple isn't just focusing on solar power. They are putting in the nation's largest private hydrogen fuel cell plant. 4.8-megawatts. Yes, I know... the solar array will generate 20-megawatts, but 4.8 is still a nice little chunk.

http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/03/31/1969051/apple-plans-nations-biggest-private.html

 

[justperry]

Every hole in that roof is a potential leak. That is why you rarely see equipment on the roof. Penetrations to the building are almost always on the sides, hence the mechanical court yards.

One of the factories I worked for regrets the decisions they made 50 years ago to put most of their utilities on their rooftop but not for the reason you point out.
Every hole is a POTENTIAL leak but what I have seen it is almost never a problem.
Holes are made for pipes transporting heat/cold/product and for cable ducts but are always constructed so that the in/outlet is under a utility device and is higher than the edge of the roof so that if the roof gets flooded the water spills over the edge of the roof, and are also water tight.

The main problem causing damage to a roof is PEOPLE working on the roof.
They might leave rubbish on the roof, like shards of metal, ty-rap/Cable ties, bolts/nuts/screws which can lead to holes in the roof surfacing when you walk over them.
This is by FAR the most common cause of leaks on the roof of this particular American Chocolate Company.
Also, those ty-rap/cable ties to bundle electric cables disintegrate due to UV(10-20 years), fall on the ground and cause trouble when people walk over them.
People should also always try to stay on the rubber thicker mats tracks but rarely do if there is a short cut, most just don't realize the roofs sensitivity to people walking over it.


Edit: workers dropping tools/gear or any heavy materials is also a problem.

 

[nostresshere]

As to what goes on the roof.

Do you want to risk YOUR DATA to leaks?

Simple stuff folks. Flat roofs can leak. Eliminate the risk as much as possible. Notice there are not even A/C equipment, vents, etc or all the other crap that you usually see on a rooftop.

 

[Alameda]

Ohh we have a parking lot professional here. In before Data center is not good enough in terms of jobs. We must require 1 staff per 1 server or 1 TB ratio and also complaints on how poor this solution is when Apple gives sooo many jobs to China.

I'm sure the parking lot is sufficient in term so jobs required to handle the data center.

I think you're missing my point: This county made a big deal out of getting this data center built. They went to a lot of trouble and effort to attract the business and offered Apple all sorts of incentives.

So is it really too much to ask a simple question: Why?

Judging by the parking lot, it looks like fewer than 100 people will work there. Sure, lots of construction workers made money for a year or two, but now it's all built. I'm not criticizing Apple or anything like that, I'm simply asking a question: WHY should a county go through all sorts of Herculean effort and large expense, in order to bring in 50 to 100 permanent jobs? That is what this whole article is about: The county "won" and secured the project. It is fair to ask why.

 

[OatmealRocks]

I think you're missing my point: This county made a big deal out of getting this data center built. They went to a lot of trouble and effort to attract the business and offered Apple all sorts of incentives.

So is it really too much to ask a simple question: Why?

Judging by the parking lot, it looks like fewer than 100 people will work there. Sure, lots of construction workers made money for a year or two, but now it's all built. I'm not criticizing Apple or anything like that, I'm simply asking a question: WHY should a county go through all sorts of Herculean effort and large expense, in order to bring in 50 to 100 permanent jobs? That is what this whole article is about: The county "won" and secured the project. It is fair to ask why.

Whole country made a big deal? IF you say so or maybe just the people who are being political. SO maybe a lot of news made a big deal for their 15 minutes of spot light. Why what? What are you asking? You don't make sense. Why do you think it would take more then their planned # of jobs to support this facility? Why? Are you a master of cloud infrastructure? Are you a Master Black Belt in six sigma? Why do you think the number stated by apple make you ask why the number in your view is not sufficient? Why why why?

People here ask stupid question and in hindsight are ready to be so critical as if they are some high moral consumer who thinks their words have some value to what Apple should do with their money or what they should do in terms of a business process. As if they are some executive with management and sound decision skills which would improve their business processes, procedures or corporate decision for the organization as a whole. Hey idiots, Apple is the industry leader and employ the brightest have the clout, competency and foresight on better macro decisions then what is being proposed.


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I think it makes perfect sense to put solar panels on the roof. It hardly takes a scientist to realise that on the roof the panels will be at least 30 feet closer to the sun and so more efficient. Scientifically speaking you have to use the inverse square law:
30 x 30 = 900
Then inverse by subtracting 1
900 - 1 = 899
And multiply by the number of acres
899 x 180 = 161,820 horsepower of extra energy

----------

Wow, never imagined that my stupid observation would generate such a crapstorm. Oatmeal, you need to lighten up. There is nothing wrong with making an observation and hoping someone might be able to provide a logical response. Your responses have been nothing but antagonistic.

True dat! You need to go back in time and not make that post. Look at the picture again. The facility is not in New York City, land is not a premium. I am surprised you didn't ask why they didn't make the facility 50' x 50' and make like 250 stories or 250 sub levels .. I mean following your logic this would save space right???

I'll throw you a bone.. because at the end of the day their is an ROI value and everything is at a cost basis. THere is a commercial building cost/ft (very important) and a whole bunch of other stuff I or you are not aware of. Short answer in the interest of time, adding solar panels would require an analysis, cost, benefit and cooperation of various general contractors which would not make it feasible or realistic given the requirements, specification, completion date and budget of the project.

 

[Alameda]

Whole country made a big deal? IF you say so or maybe just the people who are being political. SO maybe a lot of news made a big deal for their 15 minutes of spot light. Why what? What are you asking? You don't make sense. Why do you think it would take more then their planned # of jobs to support this facility? Why? Are you a master of cloud infrastructure? Are you a Master Black Belt in six sigma? Why do you think the number stated by apple make you ask why the number in your view is not sufficient? Why why why?

People here ask stupid question

Wow, that's a pretty intense response to a question. Obviously you don't know the answer, so you've attacked me for merely asking it.

The topic of the thread is that Catawba County, North Carolina has worked since 2005 to win data center business, and in order to bring this facility into their county, they had to, "Secure the needed site, power capacity, and economic incentives," and on top of that, they won it by, "offering Apple (a) 180-acre parcel" of land.

So it's reasonable to ask a simple question: Why? Why give away 180 acres and secure power capacity and offer economic incentives in order to bring <100 jobs into your county?

Now, perhaps someone here can answer that. Perhaps the information in the article is insufficient; perhaps there is a 1,000 car lot across the street, perhaps there are many other economic benefits in addition to the jobs. Therefore, it is reasonable to ask that question. But if the fact is that the county went to all this trouble and expense for 50 jobs, most of them from out of the region, then I'd say they wasted a lot of time and money for what they got.

However, your response was utterly uncivil and uncalled for.

 

[nostresshere]

I think you're missing my point: This county made a big deal out of getting this data center built. They went to a lot of trouble and effort to attract the business and offered Apple all sorts of incentives.

So is it really too much to ask a simple question: Why?

Judging by the parking lot, it looks like fewer than 100 people will work there. Sure, lots of construction workers made money for a year or two, but now it's all built. I'm not criticizing Apple or anything like that, I'm simply asking a question: WHY should a county go through all sorts of Herculean effort and large expense, in order to bring in 50 to 100 permanent jobs? That is what this whole article is about: The county "won" and secured the project. It is fair to ask why.

Why?

They wanted business on this vacant land. If it made sense or you want reasons why, you might want to check with the local government there. Everyone makes their own value judgements.

 

[Alameda]

Why?

They wanted business on this vacant land. If it made sense or you want reasons why, you might want to check with the local government there. Everyone makes their own value judgements.

180 acres of land isn't free.

I'm not anti-Apple or anti-data center or anything of the sort. I love Apple. I'm merely questioning whether the deal the county made -- which, to repeat, is THE subject of this thread -- was wise for the county.

 

[JAT]

I'm not criticizing Apple or anything like that, I'm simply asking a question: WHY should a county go through all sorts of Herculean effort and large expense, in order to bring in 50 to 100 permanent jobs? That is what this whole article is about: The county "won" and secured the project. It is fair to ask why.

Taxes. Big corporate installations like this are steady tax money, even if discounted. Dealing with homeowners and little shops that come and go is not a steady cash stream.

 

[Kori]

You can see the data center on Google Maps:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=apple+corp.+Maiden,+North+Carolina&aq=&sll=35.764343,-81.227417&sspn=0.34154,0.657806&vpsrc=6&t=h&ie=UTF8&hq=apple+corp.&hnear=Maiden,+Catawba,+North+Carolina&ll=35.588609,-81.260719&spn=0.021393,0.041113&z=15&iwloc=A&cid=16685576823693685777
If that doesn't work, go to maps.google.com and find 6047 Startown Road, Maiden, NC.
There are quite a few data centers in the area, as well as trees, hilly farmland, and small towns. It's about 50 miles NW of Charlotte.