Not in the M1 Max laptops it isn't, and that's what they're comparing with.
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Benchmarks Confirm Intel's Latest Core i9 Chip Outperforms Apple's M1 Max With Several Caveats
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Exactly. I spend a lot of time on the road, but I went thin and light (MBA) because I'm not much of a gamer and decided I didn't want to heft a bigger laptop around. A buddy of mine in the same line of business has a gaming laptop and tolerates the weight to be able to play his favorite AAA games during downtime. Since he's gaming on a desk in a hotel room with headphones and a mouse - noise, heat, and battery life are irrelevant to him. The thing is a portable desktop, and he loves it.
It's not my use case and certainly not a market Apple cares about, but I completely understand why someone would buy a gaming laptop, and Alder Lake seems to have really upped the ante there. It'll be interesting to see how it does in an ultra-portable.
I do have M1 Max and also older 2018+2019 macbooks with i7. On M1 Max browsing, mail, youtube, and other video, teams, zoom conferencing, xcode code compilation, fan is off, not spinning at all. With normal user needs, there is no way you can make it spin. Well, maybe when room temperature is 50 celsius. Maximum I was able to do is 1500rpm, but I have to push CPU hard for long time with code that was specifically made to do that.
https://benchmarksgame-team.pages.debian.net/benchmarksgame/performance/mandelbrot.html
I used first one for C++.
CPU will max at 45W (whole package). It can be easily measured with: sudo powermetrics in terminal.
You need to use GPU + CPU to spin the fan. Yes, you can do it, games might be good example (games? on macOS..no, just kidding) so better example would be Unity game dev on mac or video exporting with a complex filters, but noise level is nowhere near to previous macbooks 16' 2019/18 with i7. Those are hot and noisy. It is enough to compile in xcode for 30 seconds and you have more than 5000rpm. Vacuum cleaner.
M1 Max laptops are indeed not fanless, so you're correct that statement isn't technically true. But if you consider "fanless silence" as being the approximate same amount of silence as a fanless computer, the M1 Max is darned close for CPU-only tasks.
I am sitting here with my M1 Max on my lap, in a warm, fairly quiet room, with Cinebench pinning all 10 CPU cores for the last 20 minutes or so. I can't hear the fan. At all. If I lean down a bit and get my ear within a foot of the keyboard (or move to a very quiet room), it's slightly audible. If I put my ear against the keyboard, I can hear it clearly, but it's not even close to loud.
Based on that experience, it's entirely possible that many users--even those with moderate workloads--would be completely unaware it even has a fan.
When I add in a GPU benchmark (at the same time) that is pinning the GPU at 100% in addition to the CPU, the fan does become noticeable. Still what I would describe as a fairly quiet laptop fan--certainly quieter than any other non-fanless laptop made in the past 7 years that I have used. And when I shut down the GPU benchmark, the fan ramps back down to effectively silent within a minute or two.
I remember the arguments well…”there is no way a phone processor will ever be competition against Intel & AMD”.
And here we are today, comparing a phone processor against the highest end desktop and server grade processors just to get a frame of reference…..everybody now wants to beat the phone processor, at all costs. Lol
Wait -- Apple is the one helping the environment?
The ones making the non-repairable, non upgradable, SKU-fest of devices and selling endless individually packaged dongles and cases shipped over from China on a huge pollution fest ship or pollution max jet?
That's our "climate leader"?
please dont Play The Spin-doctor!
Regard my postings : since YEARS I do not stop to critizise apple for exactly the points you are presenting here. It is not by coincidence that I Stil use a MacPro from 2008 and MBPs from 2001 and 2012…
Just to correct your try to present me as someone who names apple the leader in the battle for better environment: I NEVER EVER said or posted that! I was talking of the effects of more energy-efficient processors, nothing else!
I only wrote that this technology of SOC like the M1 is indeed a big step for better environment strategy.
It will be extremely difficult for you to deny that future Prozessors that drain 40 Watts instead of 120 or even 140 watts forthelft same performance would NOT be a good step - even it is apple who indeed did next to nothing to prevent environment damage all over the world.
so - please do not attack people who think the same as you, but are at least able to honor an industrial step in production which can help to prevent much worse evolution of energy consumption by a dramatic success in performance per watt…
so just please keep cool and don’t attack people who are on your side…
Fair enough ?
Glad to hear you don't think Apple is some leader on the environment (as some here do)
The M1 is amazing but the Pro and Max don't really add all that much. The real magic is the base M1.
My MacBook Air M1 is faster than anything Intel, weighs less than a tablet + keyboard, lasts 10+ hours on battery to the point where I basically never use my power adapter when on the road. No fans, completely silent.
So this is the real killer, this normal M1 chip, Intel has nothing that's coming anywhere close to that. They distract on the top end because they really do not want anyone to pay attention to that.
Pro and Max are a bit faster, but same single core score, and mostly their power only shows in niche applications that 99% of users never encounter. My M1 Air feels no slower than my 16" MBP M1 Pro.
I love seeing Intel scramble to keep up - good luck and godspeed.
But, I believe Windows ARM will probably remove Intel initially out of all lower price segments, since they just can't compete, either by price, or by power, or by performance per watt. And later on also out of the high performance segments, once ARM chipmakers figure out how to scale their performance / watt advantage.
Apple M1 / AX chips are 1-2 years ahead of the other ARM chip makers... but... what this means is, Intel only has 1-2 years to get their act together.
They're scrambling- not because of Apple, but because of the wave or ARM chips that's about to obliterate them. They're seeing a Tsunami on the horizon.
My MacBook Air M1 is faster than anything Intel, weighs less than a tablet + keyboard, lasts 10+ hours on battery to the point where I basically never use my power adapter when on the road. No fans, completely silent.
So this is the real killer, this normal M1 chip, Intel has nothing that's coming anywhere close to that. They distract on the top end because they really do not want anyone to pay attention to that.
Pro and Max are a bit faster, but same single core score, and mostly their power only shows in niche applications that 99% of users never encounter. My M1 Air feels no slower than my 16" MBP M1 Pro.
I love seeing Intel scramble to keep up - good luck and godspeed.
But, I believe Windows ARM will probably remove Intel initially out of all lower price segments, since they just can't compete, either by price, or by power, or by performance per watt. And later on also out of the high performance segments, once ARM chipmakers figure out how to scale their performance / watt advantage.
Apple M1 / AX chips are 1-2 years ahead of the other ARM chip makers... but... what this means is, Intel only has 1-2 years to get their act together.
They're scrambling- not because of Apple, but because of the wave or ARM chips that's about to obliterate them. They're seeing a Tsunami on the horizon.
The desktop i9-12900K has 8 Efficient-cores and 8 Performance-cores. The performance cores also offer hyperthreading, so 16 cores and 24 threads.
I believe this, too. Intel’s low end processors will never be able to compete (because Intel will intentionally underpower them). Sure, these potential new Windows systems likely won’t run ALL the legacy x86 code, but there are millions of people out there that don’t care about running legacy x86 code (exhibit A, the sheer enormity of iPads Apple sells).
Imagine Apple shipping the M1 to PCs.
Uses way less power. Is way faster. Is way cheaper to make / sell.
Once Windows figures out how to run on ARM, the segment that makes up 95% of PC shipments, low end class desktops and laptops, will run on M1. Especially because of price, but they won't complain about the performance either.
Other ARM chipmakers will get in there and do that, they're 1-2 years behind Apple but it's coming!
High end, Apple is figuring out how to scale their performance / watt advantage to an absolute performance advantage.
They can either add more and more cores to their chips, or make multi chip systems, which they've already started on.
140W vs 35W => it's 4 x M1 vs 1 x Intel.
Uses way less power. Is way faster. Is way cheaper to make / sell.
Once Windows figures out how to run on ARM, the segment that makes up 95% of PC shipments, low end class desktops and laptops, will run on M1. Especially because of price, but they won't complain about the performance either.
Other ARM chipmakers will get in there and do that, they're 1-2 years behind Apple but it's coming!
High end, Apple is figuring out how to scale their performance / watt advantage to an absolute performance advantage.
They can either add more and more cores to their chips, or make multi chip systems, which they've already started on.
140W vs 35W => it's 4 x M1 vs 1 x Intel.
Windows may even figure out how to create a Rosetta environment. Although - not holding my breath there.
PS: Also this is why Intel is making a very loud noise on the top end, while keeping very, very silent about the low end hahaha.
I have no doubt they’ll figure SOMETHING out. But, the idea that “Intel means better legacy support” will hold less sway in the future for those looking for new apps that take advantage of the latest hardware features. If Microsoft’s eventual solution is within even 25% of the M1’s performance, the picture of the low end is going to get really interesting real fast.
As I posted already before,apple might get a new role as a designer and (by outsourcing to TSCM) producer of energy-efficient processors. Other than Intel and Microsoft apple has also much experience in organizing production of hardware PLUS designing software. So they have the potential to succeed as well with projects of servers from low to high-end.
Both, Intel as well as Microsoft, understood the potential Thread for them and have engaged now leading ex-managers of the apple project.
While Microsoft has its role as a near-monopolist concerning Operating systems and standard-software they might now go the same way like apple, it seems. Microsoft will survive easily though, perhaps copying apple and win as well….
But Intel has a real problem here…
until now the software-giants had to adapt their OS to Intel‘s hardware - but now apple came back to their position they had before they gave up once and started their dependence on Intel-processors 2 decades ago And Microsoft will combine their OS and software with their own software-adapted own hardware some day. Maybe. … They even have already a bit of experience in hardware-design while producing hardware like the surface machines…
So - Intel panics now because they don’t want to go same way KODAK went when world- leading Kodak ignored the very rapidly coming digital revolution in photography… Intel has arrogantly ignored for a long time the potential of SOC - just like Kodak who did not understand the fast development of digital photography and stayed with films too long Until they went bankrupt. They will have to work extremely hard to just survive the next 10 years…
Intel now must try to act like Fujifilm who re-invented themselves and now is absolutely stable. Or they will rest arrogant (or just are already too late) and go all the way down to ground like Kodak Did.
While Fujifilm survived because of its asiatic ability to change and adapt themselves US-based enterprises have another industrial culture full of arrogance.
US- Industrial history Shows a lot of cases where it Went wrong because of too much greed paired with too much arrogance… … just Have a look at GM, at Boeing, at Kodak - and perhaps at Intel in some years from now …
I don’t think at all Intel-shares are a „buy“ now.. in fact more a „sell“ than a „hold“… which reflects just the reality…
Both, Intel as well as Microsoft, understood the potential Thread for them and have engaged now leading ex-managers of the apple project.
While Microsoft has its role as a near-monopolist concerning Operating systems and standard-software they might now go the same way like apple, it seems. Microsoft will survive easily though, perhaps copying apple and win as well….
But Intel has a real problem here…
until now the software-giants had to adapt their OS to Intel‘s hardware - but now apple came back to their position they had before they gave up once and started their dependence on Intel-processors 2 decades ago And Microsoft will combine their OS and software with their own software-adapted own hardware some day. Maybe. … They even have already a bit of experience in hardware-design while producing hardware like the surface machines…
So - Intel panics now because they don’t want to go same way KODAK went when world- leading Kodak ignored the very rapidly coming digital revolution in photography… Intel has arrogantly ignored for a long time the potential of SOC - just like Kodak who did not understand the fast development of digital photography and stayed with films too long Until they went bankrupt. They will have to work extremely hard to just survive the next 10 years…
Intel now must try to act like Fujifilm who re-invented themselves and now is absolutely stable. Or they will rest arrogant (or just are already too late) and go all the way down to ground like Kodak Did.
While Fujifilm survived because of its asiatic ability to change and adapt themselves US-based enterprises have another industrial culture full of arrogance.
US- Industrial history Shows a lot of cases where it Went wrong because of too much greed paired with too much arrogance… … just Have a look at GM, at Boeing, at Kodak - and perhaps at Intel in some years from now …
I don’t think at all Intel-shares are a „buy“ now.. in fact more a „sell“ than a „hold“… which reflects just the reality…
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Gotcha, if I were a gamer and wanted an all in one I'd get a pc or maybe even an intel mac for now.
I have a 2018 mac mini, 2 2014 macbook pros and the m1 MacBook air.
They do everything I need, but If I were doing video and wanted to play games it might be a pc.
That said its going to be interesting if Apple gets into gaming!
Blender isn't optimized for Mac at all. Apple has recently begun serious support of the Blender team.
No, the price/performance ratio will probably never be what it is for PCs w/ Nvidia...
Just asking here but isn't MS holding off on getting window ready for Mac silicon because they are
"partners" with Intel? I thought that was part of the reason?
Where are the bulk if Intel X86 chip sales and profits? In the i3/i5 range or higher? Because the M1 obliterates the low end chips including iGPU, but at a higher price point. The M1 doesn’t do the same to the i7-i9 with discrete graphics, and those machines are delivered at a lower price point.
Right?
“Our new 12th gen core i9 powered notebook/portable pizza oven is super fast and might even make it on to One Bite pizza reviews! In your face Apple!”
I believe they make profits on the lower end just for the MASSES of vendors selling solutions and on the top end where they can charge a premium per chip. Most of the middle is a wash, I’d guess. Which means, if other companies start eating their lunch at the low end and start nibbling into the middle, they may have to retreat to the high end.
if apple M1 max could pull 150 watts of power the m1 max would be 50% faster then intel lol