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Apple might not lower iphone prices but other smartphone prices will go down. Apple might have to response.


Look at the prices of computers, HDTV, digital camera overtime.

Expensive at first but prices went down overtime.


AT&T, Verizon and Sprint won't likely get rid of subsidies anytime soon. They will offer both monthly installments and subsidies to customers.

T-Mobile won't likely go back to subsidies though.

I highly doubt Apple will change its prices anytime soon, cause they will continue to release things like the iPhone C -- slightly cheaper with last years technology, simply redefined to give customers more options.

As for Digital Cameras, prices have gone down because of increased availability and the lower demand due to people relying more and more on their smartphones for snapping pictures.

HDTV's, again more availability, but do note that if you want the latest and greatest TV with best resolution and all, its still pricy just like every new iPhone.

Computers....again cheaper components, have you tried using the new <$300 laptops or desktops? They perform like crap --- very high hard drive failure (not talking about SSD's) rates in new laptops as well these days again due to manufacturers using cheaper components and those CPU's not capable of running any high end software with little room for upgrades due to limitations of the mother board and the list goes on.

If you want quality you have to pay for it and its the way things have been and will continue to be.
 
I fail to see how the Next, Jump or Edge programs are more expensive if you plan on keeping your phone for two years. Keep in mind, trading in the phone is optional under all three programs. If you want to sell the phone at month 12 via CL, ebay, etc and use the proceeds of the sale to buy a new device full price or pay off your remaining balance, then that's entirely up to you. An iPhone 5S 16GB bought under Next, Jump or Edge will cost you the same $650 as it would've done if you bought it full price from Apple. Next, Jump and Edge are basically just 0% interest loans with no down payment.


I've looked into prepaid but with our usage, I've always found them to be the same or even more expensive than what I was paying AT&T. Tethering support is also a big requirement for me and at least when I looked before, the prepaid plans explicitly prohibit tethering. I don't really need unlimited data but I reckon I require more data than average.

We're currently on AT&T's Mobile Share Value 10GB plan so that's $160 for 4 lines or $40 per line.

Given the following monthly usage, how much would it cost on Cricket?

Line 1: ~4-5 GB (tethering required)
Line 2: ~2 GB
Line 3: ~1 GB
Line 4: ~100 MB

Line 1 $45
Line 2 $35
Line 3 $35
Line 4 $25

With unlimited throttled speeds after. It would even cheaper with 5 lines for more savings. So that's $140 with all fees included. In regards to tethering, not sure about androids but iphone can use mywii if jailbroken.

In regards to upgrade my argument was directed towards upgrading every year. For your statement, with subsidized contracts, you can use $10 lines to get phones for cheap, essentially making an iphone $440 instead of 649 per phone. The savings is even more if you plan on using the $10 for say a kid with a dumbphone
 
Line 1 $45
Line 2 $35
Line 3 $35
Line 4 $25

With unlimited throttled speeds after. It would even cheaper with 5 lines for more savings. So that's $140 with all fees included. In regards to tethering, not sure about androids but iphone can use mywii if jailbroken.
I don't plan on jailbreaking so Cydia tethering apps are out. I checked out Cricket's website and I'm unable to get the rates that you posted. I've found something regarding Group Save but it won't let me add more than one plan/line of service to the cart.

In regards to upgrade my argument was directed towards upgrading every year. For your statement, with subsidized contracts, you can use $10 lines to get phones for cheap, essentially making an iphone $440 instead of 649 per phone. The savings is even more if you plan on using the $10 for say a kid with a dumbphone
That only works if you still have the old non-shared data plans. Also, $440 instead of $649 per phone only works if you still have dumbphones on the account. If you have smartphones on all lines on the account, there's a mandatory, minimum $15-20 charge per line for "data". With the older $15/mo for 200MB data on AT&T, that actually gets you a slightly discounted iPhone ($560 instead of $650 for iPhone 5S 16GB). With the $20/mo charge, that's essentially $680 instead of $650 for the same and that's not including the $10/mo line fee.
 
I don't plan on jailbreaking so Cydia tethering apps are out. I checked out Cricket's website and I'm unable to get the rates that you posted. I've found something regarding Group Save but it won't let me add more than one plan/line of service to the cart.


That only works if you still have the old non-shared data plans. Also, $440 instead of $649 per phone only works if you still have dumbphones on the account. If you have smartphones on all lines on the account, there's a mandatory, minimum $15-20 charge per line for "data". With the older $15/mo for 200MB data on AT&T, that actually gets you a slightly discounted iPhone ($560 instead of $650 for iPhone 5S 16GB). With the $20/mo charge, that's essentially $680 instead of $650 for the same and that's not including the $10/mo line fee.

That's because group save can only be added after your account is switched to a family plan. You basically would just take 2 individuals and combine it after receiving sim. The rates are derived from the group savings on the website. You add the total plans and subtract the savings...

Yes I know it only works if you have the old nonshared plans with less than 5 lines. I am giving options why the current plans with ATT are not a good value for most people. If you don't jailbreak, then you're not taking full advantage of your phone. At least for me, I would get the same service paying less than what you're paying at the moment. I can see postpaid being better on those who need truly unlimited data.
 
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If you want quality you have to pay for it and its the way things have been and will continue to be.

Quality like this one? But at half the price?

oneplusone.jpg


$299 for the 16GB unlocked/off-contract
$349 for the 64GB unlocked/off-contract

- 5.5" JDI 1080p display
- Snapdragon 801 (MSM8974AC - Quad-core at 2.5GHz)
- 3100+mAh battery (non-removable)
- Sony Exmor IMX214 6-Lens 13MP camera
- 5MP Front-Facing camera
- 3GB of RAM
- 16GB & 64GB Variants
- Stereo Speakers
- StyleSwap Covers - Multiple materials/textures
- Single-SIM card
- Global LTE
- GSM Only




$600 for a smartphone or $300 for an equally as good for a smartphone?

Overtime, the $300 "equally as good" smartphone will gain marketshare and the "$600" smartphone will lose market share in a system where subsidy is no longer common.

The $600 smartphone can keep its profit margin but at the expense of market share.
 
Quality like this one? But at half the price?

Image

$299 for the 16GB unlocked/off-contract
$349 for the 64GB unlocked/off-contract

- 5.5" JDI 1080p display
- Snapdragon 801 (MSM8974AC - Quad-core at 2.5GHz)
- 3100+mAh battery (non-removable)
- Sony Exmor IMX214 6-Lens 13MP camera
- 5MP Front-Facing camera
- 3GB of RAM
- 16GB & 64GB Variants
- Stereo Speakers
- StyleSwap Covers - Multiple materials/textures
- Single-SIM card
- Global LTE
- GSM Only




$600 for a smartphone or $300 for an equally as good for a smartphone?

Overtime, the $300 "equally as good" smartphone will gain marketshare and the "$600" smartphone will lose market share in a system where subsidy is no longer common.

The $600 smartphone can keep its profit margin but at the expense of market share.

Pretty sure Apple will keep gaining marketshare and also iPhone holds value longest, the $300 phone will be worth $150 by the time its 6months old.

No subsidy is going to make people feel the phone is costing more but you also have to see how much the bill total was....if you read some of calculations performed by people, you will see people are actually saving money now compared to subsidized contract phones.

Your too busy looking at the $199 subsidized iPhone prices...look beyond and do some math. You have more options to save money than before by better managing your financial situation. Things are now officially simpler, you pick what you want to pay for, and that is what you pay, not if you want a iPhone (latest) you must pay XXX and must pay XX/XXX for plan.

Best example is those that are using MVNO's like Straight Talk -- 3GB LTE Data + Unlimited Talk + Text = $495/year + iPhone cost, over 2 years = <$2000 even with 64GB Model.

Having been a Straight Talk user for very long time (no longer because I got a different plan/carrier that better suits my needs), I can say that the service is reliable and fast so as long as one does not abuse it (meaning you are not going over their data limit by GB's rather than MB's and using 3000 minutes or so -- even tho most "Unlimited" offering companies don't advertise this number, it is generally the number for outgoing calls given for "Unlimited" plans --- But even then if the calls are to similar set of numbers and not like someone at a call center using it, then they never bother you).

lastly the One+1 looks pretty amazing but are you going to ditch your iPhone and move over?
 
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WOW. It's really taking off at AT&T.

http://www.fiercewireless.com/story...scriber-adds-q2-32m-next-additions/2014-06-03

AT&T said it expects around 3.2 million AT&T Next smartphone sales in the second quarter, compared to 2.9 million in the first quarter. AT&T said Next sales have been rising throughout the second quarter, and are expected to be around 50 percent of all sales in the second quarter. That compares to around 40 percent in the first quarter (or 35 percent when taking out accelerated upgrades).

Further, AT&T said that by the end of the second quarter, around one-half of the company's postpaid smartphone customer base will be on a no-device-subsidy Mobile Share Value pricing plan, and that figure will grow to around two-thirds by year-end.

T-Mobile postpaid: almost 100% are on no-subsidy
AT&T postpaid: 50% of customer base on no-subsidy (to grow to 66.7% by year end)

Verizon second quarter: around 30% of smartphone purchase will be no-subsidy
Sprint: ?



http://gigaom.com/2014/06/03/atts-n...-on-track-for-half-of-smartphone-sales-in-q2/

Next accounted for 40 percent of AT&T’s smartphones sales in the first quarter, but AT&T says the program is on pace to bring in half of its smartphone business in Q2.

By the end of the year AT&T expects those value plans to account for two-thirds of its subscriber base. AT&T hasn’t done away with subsidies entirely like T-Mobile, but it’s quickly moving away from the subsidy model.

I wouldn't be surprised if this time next year, 75% or more of smartphone purchases at AT&T will be with no-subsidy.
 
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Interesting / from one of OnePlus executives.

https://forums.oneplus.net/threads/how-will-oneplus-make-money.12343/
How will OnePlus make money?

How can OnePlus create a smartphone that's better built, better designed, better spec'd than the 2014 flagships, yet sell it for less than half of what more established companies charge? That's the question that has caused a lot of people to scratch their heads in the recent weeks. I've seen some strange theories floating around, and thought it would be a good time to clear some things up.

A lot of media have previously asked us how we can sell such a high quality product at such a reasonable price, and we have told them that we can save money by doing the following three things:

Dramatically cut down on marketing spend: Instead of expensive offline campaigns, try and do more online marketing and have our fans help us spread the word.

Eliminate retail channel costs: While marketing is expensive, retail is even more so. I'd estimate that retail channels can cost anywhere from 20% to 40% of the final price of a flagship device from an established brand.

Not plan to make any money for two years: We are fine with not making any money on our smartphones for two years, to give more people the chance to experience the quality of our devices, and help us build a name.

Some people fear that we'll run out of money, while others have even offered to donate to us. There's no need to fear for us going bankrupt in the next two years, and instead of donating money, you'll help us even more by spreading the word.

We want to apply the model commonly used by Silicon Valley consumer internet startups to hardware. First, create a good product. Second, use the product to attract users. Then, find a way to make money later when you have enough users. Hardware is a lot more risk than software, which is why we have controversial moves such as the invite system, that some new members haven't taken the time to understand.

We're still thinking of ways in which we could become profitable in the future, and here are some of our current ideas:

Accessories: We will not sell accessories at cost, and will keep a reasonable margin on them. If a customer buys accessories together with our device, we can earn a few dollars.

Scale: Because our initial quantities are small, our hardware costs are quite high. Once we can sell millions of devices a year, the component costs will fall and we'll be able to have a slight margin on our smartphones without raising the price.

Services: Providing services through software may be a long term solution to make some money. However, it's too early to think about it as these things require scale. This will only be interesting once we have millions of active users.

Although we're thinking about ways to make money in the future, that's not what's most important. We firmly believe that if money was the prime motivator, we'd never be successful. Instead, if we focus on creating great products and couple it with good service, customers will appreciate what we're doing and help us spread the word. In time, it will be impossible to not make money. We're thinking long term.

I hope you have found this information helpful in understanding us a bit better. :)


Depending on the price of the AMAZON smartphone is will be announced in 5 days, we might have another competitor who use the "high end device at near break-even prices" strategy.

More competitors = better for us customers.
 
If the device doesn't run IOS, I for one am not interested.

Nevertheless, you will still benefit because the elimination of subsidies

"benefit customers who really want to upgrade often to newer devices. However, they also benefit customers who want to keep their devices after two years, or customers who have paid off the full cost of their devices."
 
Nevertheless, you will still benefit because the elimination of subsidies

"benefit customers who really want to upgrade often to newer devices. However, they also benefit customers who want to keep their devices after two years, or customers who have paid off the full cost of their devices."

Clearly lowering the price of the plan and moving that incremental price into a loan option for the phone would benefit those who BYOD.

However I suspect some of verizon base might not want phone subsidies removed. Until I move off my current plan elimination if subsidies won't help me one bit as I am on an older not available plan.
 
Switching from subsidy to loans also benefits the carriers' quarterly reports:

Subsidy

Under GAAP the combination of handset and service contract is considered profitable, so the FULL non-contract price of the handset must be listed as an immediate expense when the contract is signed.

The carriers don't even get to write-down lower value over time, like regular device inventory.

Especially after each new iPhone debut, all this extra accounting cost has had some pretty big impacts on carrier profit reports and thus their stock value.

Loan

By financing the phones instead, the loan becomes an accounts receivable, an asset offset by the phone as collateral. Meaning it doesn't affect profit reports as much.

Disclosure: I am not an accountant. I'm sure this can better explained by one :)
 
That is not really a consumer benefit.

Didn't say it was. In fact, my post specifically noted that it helped the carrier's quarterly reports.

agree. That's just a benefit for the carriers to get rid of subsidy.

Half the thread has been about carriers getting rid of subsidies.

I thought it'd be useful to explain why they want to.
 
http://www.fiercewireless.com/story...ive-more-equipment-installment-sal/2014-07-30

No-Subsidy smartphone purchase

T-Mobile 2Q: 100% ? (since T-Mobile doesn't have contract anymore)
AT&T 2Q: 50% (up from 40%)
Sprint 2Q: 28% (down from 29%)
Verizon 2Q: 18% (up from 13%)

Other carriers, notably T-Mobile and AT&T, have been aggressive in pushing device financing programs. Indeed, AT&T said half of all of its smartphone sales in the second quarter were through its Next program, up from 40 percent in the first quarter (or 35 percent when taking out accelerated upgrades). Verizon said the percentage of customers using its Edge upgrade plan increased to 18 percent in the second quarter, from 13 percent in the first quarter.

In the second quarter, Sprint said 28 percent of customers who bought postpaid devices selected Easy Pay, compared to 29 percent in the first quarter. Hesse said that the decline in the interest in Sprint Easy Pay is because postpaid customers "have been conditioned" to accept the subsidized phone "and it will take a while to get as comfortable with Easy Pay or installment billing."
 
T-Mobile 2Q: 100% ? (since T-Mobile doesn't have contract anymore)
AT&T 2Q: 50% (up from 40%)
Sprint 2Q: 28% (down from 29%)
Verizon 2Q: 18% (up from 13%)
The writing is on the wall, but I'm not ready to buy an iPhone 6 w/o a subsidy.

I tried VZW's edge program but after a period if time, I didn't like the idea of paying an extra fee for the phone, especially since I'm not planning on upgrading the phone every few months like they promote.

I paid off the phone, sold it on swappa and I'm not living back on my contract so I can upgrade to the iPhone 6 if I want too.
 
The only real benefit to customers for ending subsidies is they no longer pay the same monthly fee when their phone is paid off. It's a great incentive to keep your phone longer or buy used devices.

Programs like NEXT are designed to 'soften the blow' of paying for your own phone vs. a subsidy. By offering zero down and a 'palatable' monthly rate that is close to the old fee....customers feel like they are only paying 'a few dollars more per month' than they used to. It's the same approach car dealerships take to make you think in terms of a slightly higher payment per month than the total cost.

Apple has to be thrilled with the arrangement. If Americans ever had to deal with the sticker shock of actually paying $750-$950 for a cell phone, it was result in a change in buying patterns. (For example, buy your kid a '$199 iPhone' for a palatable for a lot more parents to stomach than $700. The actual monthly service fee for the phone is always ignored as 'a few dollars more')

Smartphone growth took off in the US because people actually thought of iPhones as $200-$300 products...not something that costs the same as a big screen TV or windows laptop.
 
To me, the benefits are simple -- more transparent pricing, and having the freedom to shop around for the best plan that fits one's needs. The big challenge, as others have said, is weaning American customers off of "BOGO" or "$199" offers and considering the total cost of ownership.

Programs like NEXT are designed to 'soften the blow' of paying for your own phone vs. a subsidy. By offering zero down and a 'palatable' monthly rate that is close to the old fee....customers feel like they are only paying 'a few dollars more per month' than they used to. It's the same approach car dealerships take to make you think in terms of a slightly higher payment per month than the total cost.

Apple has to be thrilled with the arrangement. If Americans ever had to deal with the sticker shock of actually paying $750-$950 for a cell phone, it was result in a change in buying patterns. (For example, buy your kid a '$199 iPhone' for a palatable for a lot more parents to stomach than $700. The actual monthly service fee for the phone is always ignored as 'a few dollars more')

Smartphone growth took off in the US because people actually thought of iPhones as $200-$300 products...not something that costs the same as a big screen TV or windows laptop.

With the device cost increasingly detached from the service plans, I now wonder if anybody will start getting creative with the financing terms. We already have "zero interest, zero down" offer, but they all seem match the two-year contract terms.

Wonder if someone will extend that timeline out to 3 years in order to lower the monthly payment even further (and keep their phone locked into a certain vendor for a longer time). This already happens with car sales -- get a customer to buy a more expensive model by lengthening the loan term out past six years. Apple would not like that, because it lengthens the prevailing upgrade cycle. But, carriers would like it, because even with the new law that legalizes phone unlocks, it does not apply if the phone's not paid off.

With your point on sticker shock, I suspect that T-Mobile has the lowest iPhone penetration, at least in part, because they don't hide the device cost. Even if a customer opts for the two-year zero interest financing, they still see the true $649 cost for the iPhone 5s. And that might negate some sales if the customer thinks the iPhone actually costs "$199."
 
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