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swealpha

macrumors regular
Original poster
Feb 5, 2017
106
17
Hello!

I just ordered a Macbook Air M3 15,4" 16GB 512GB SSD with a 14 day return policy.

Sadly I have the diseases multiple sclerosis and astigmatism. I use glasses all the time.
And I have read that alot of people have been complain about dizziness, eye strain etc on the new m1,m2,m3 macs. Someone said that Apple is using crap Chinese manufactorers for the displays, that could be why. Not LG/Samsung like in the old good days.

What is the today best settings or apps to use to fix this issue? What do you guys recommend?
Maybe using a hachintosh laptop if not possible to fix?

I have found this things to try:

1. Turn off Font Smoothing ( https://www.fontsmoothingadjuster.com/ )
2. Disable dithering with StillColor ( https://ledstrain.org/d/2686-i-disa...e-silicon-introducing-stillcolor-macos-m1m2m3 )
3. Test sRGB IEC61966-2.1.


Thank you for more recommendations.
(Before this I have been using Macbook pro mid 2014 15,6 for 10 years and it was great).
:)
 
The stuff about 'crap Chinese display panels' is nonsense, but even if true, wouldn't help you decide if you have a problem or not. Personally, I've used a 13-inch M1 MBA for 3 years, and an M3 15-inch model for a month, I use glasses and have eyesight issues, but never experienced a problem.

My advice to you is very simple: when you get this MacBook, set it up exactly as you plan to use it in terms of screen resolution, brightness etc, and then see if you have problem with it or not. If you do, they'll be apparent in a day or so of moderate use, and if you experience this, you should return it in the 14 days available.

If you don't, then in all probability there isn't an issue for you to deal with, even though some options are possible as you describe.
 
One thing that I found odd about using the 15" M3 MBA is that I need reading glasses when using it in the default display resolution, but I do not need reading glasses when using my iPhone 14 Pro or my iPad mini 6.
 
Thank you guys for your answers!

Here is 2 videos showing how much the new displays is flickering. Compared to old Macbooks. It dont look good at all.
Recorded with Iphone in slow motion 240 FPS.


I know I am asking about this before I got the MBA, but it only have 14 days return policy. Thats why.
 
You can't tell from videos what your eyes will actually see in practice. The human eye works in vastly different ways to a video camera, and has far more flexibility in dealing with things like refresh rates, resolutions, brightness and color balance.

The only way to know is to actually sit and use the system and see what happens. And it won't take 14 days to experience the problem if it is something that will impact you.

For example, I can use my iPhone to create a video of my 13-inch MBA which shows it flickering, simply because the phone's refresh rate isn't synched to the screen's. The video looks fairly bad, but I don't actually see it at all in real life, and have used the machine for 3 years.
 
Hello!

I just ordered a Macbook Air M3 15,4" 16GB 512GB SSD with a 14 day return policy.

Sadly I have the diseases multiple sclerosis and astigmatism. I use glasses all the time.
And I have read that alot of people have been complain about dizziness, eye strain etc on the new m1,m2,m3 macs. Someone said that Apple is using crap Chinese manufactorers for the displays, that could be why. Not LG/Samsung like in the old good days.

What is the today best settings or apps to use to fix this issue? What do you guys recommend?
Maybe using a hachintosh laptop if not possible to fix?

I have found this things to try:

1. Turn off Font Smoothing ( https://www.fontsmoothingadjuster.com/ )
2. Disable dithering with StillColor ( https://ledstrain.org/d/2686-i-disa...e-silicon-introducing-stillcolor-macos-m1m2m3 )
3. Test sRGB IEC61966-2.1.


Thank you for more recommendations.
(Before this I have been using Macbook pro mid 2014 15,6 for 10 years and it was great).
:)
For me, stillcolor (Disabling dithering) worked for me. I only tested it for a few hours on my friend’s, but I could tell the eye strain was gone when I used that app.
 
Did you try the MBP? Like I wrote somewhere else: I found the display so smooth to my eyes.
“crap Chinese manufactorers“ sounds like someone read too much MSM.
 
Thank you guys for your answers!

Here is 2 videos showing how much the new displays is flickering. Compared to old Macbooks. It dont look good at all.
Recorded with Iphone in slow motion 240 FPS.


I know I am asking about this before I got the MBA, but it only have 14 days return policy. Thats why.
I experienced the same exact thing with the M2 Air! I recommend you return the MBA and get the M2 Touch Bar MBP instead — yes, the more obscure 13" model with the "old school" design. It's available refurbished with the same 14 day return policy.

(Unlike the mini-LED MBPs, this MBP has a standard IPS LCD display that is also noticeably better than the Airs.)

Unlike all of the Airs I tested (I even tried multiple M2 Airs...), the 13" Touch Bar M2 doesn't have this flicker issue on camera at all and feels way more comfortable on my eyes.

The Touch Bar M2 also works perfectly with the Stillcolor app for disabling temporal dithering, also much better than it did on the Airs. It's the only Apple Silicon Mac I've tried out of all of them that feels entirely still to my eyes after disabling dithering with Stillcolor.

The only issue with the Touch Bar M2 is that the Touch Bar keyboard strip itself is a flickering OLED — but you can turn the Touch Bar off in Keyboard Preferences, or create a custom BetterTouchTool setup with invisible (black) volume and brightness buttons.
 
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You can't tell from videos what your eyes will actually see in practice. The human eye works in vastly different ways to a video camera, and has far more flexibility in dealing with things like refresh rates, resolutions, brightness and color balance.

The only way to know is to actually sit and use the system and see what happens. And it won't take 14 days to experience the problem if it is something that will impact you.

For example, I can use my iPhone to create a video of my 13-inch MBA which shows it flickering, simply because the phone's refresh rate isn't synched to the screen's. The video looks fairly bad, but I don't actually see it at all in real life, and have used the machine for 3 years.
This post is old, but I think this merits a reply.

Those videos tell you EXACTLY what your eye is seeing. The video just makes it easier for your to comprehend it, since you cannot "see it" in real time, but your biology IS experiencing it in real time. Your eye is seeing a light being turned on and off many times per second.

This is a way of managing display brightness. Depending on how bright the display is, the frequency of the flicker is either faster or slower.

This is called PWM.

There are websites that have lists of laptops that do not use PWM for brightness adjustments SPECIFICALLY because PWM has been long-known to cause issues as many people are sensitive to it. I always tell people who are sensitive to PWM to avoid Apple Laptops unless they will be using them with an external display that does not use PWM for brightness adjustments. There is no setting that will allow these displays to work for them. This is a design of the hardware. Many PC Laptops also work this way.

Smartphone and Tablet displays also often work this way.

I know people who "suffered with migraines" for years that went away when they got rid of their iMac. I was one of them. I walked around indoors with sunshades on because that display wrecked havoc on my eyes. I always had a headache from using it. I didn't realize the iMac was causing it until I stopped using it.

I do have an M1 Pro MBP, but I don't use it unless it's connected to an external display because of this issue. After using it for three days, I became somewhat farsighted, so my focusing distance became much longer than it was before using the laptop (can't focus as well up close, have to pull things back to read them, etc.).

IMO, there should be some sort of warning on electronics that use PWM, as the effects are scientifically and medically verified and proven... and they are harmful to many people.

Why does this happen?

Because the human eye manages how much light it lets in by dilating or constricting your pupils (this is the fundamental that camera lenses are designed around). If the display is flashing on and off, and your eyes see the dim flashes, it will dilate your pupils and then the bright flashes will lazer into your dilated pupils. Pupils usually constrict for bright lights, but it's more typical that humans experience gradual brightening of lights in the real world, not 60-120 0-to-300 nit flashes per second.

In effect, this is like looking at the sun on a bright day, and over extended periods of time, it can damage your eyes.

This has been an issue with PC monitors for many, MANY years. Every iMac that I've used since at least 2012/2013 has had this issue, and most MacBooks that I've used have had this issue.

I had to buy a specific brand and model of PC Laptop to avoid this issue (to have an actual laptop that I could use in a mobile scenario).

It's not about the reflections. It's about the NITS that the screen is outputting in those flashes, and the way the display panel manages brightness. I can put a blanket over me and the laptop and use it at 40% brightness in complete darkness, and it will still do this to me because that is simply how the technology functions. No setting will change that. The only workaround is using it with an external display that doesn't utilize PWM... Literally... that's the ONLY workaround. Everything else is placebo, 100%.
 
This post is old, but I think this merits a reply.

Those videos tell you EXACTLY what your eye is seeing. The video just makes it easier for your to comprehend it, since you cannot "see it" in real time, but your biology IS experiencing it in real time. Your eye is seeing a light being turned on and off many times per second.

This is a way of managing display brightness. Depending on how bright the display is, the frequency of the flicker is either faster or slower.

This is called PWM.

There are websites that have lists of laptops that do not use PWM for brightness adjustments SPECIFICALLY because PWM has been long-known to cause issues as many people are sensitive to it. I always tell people who are sensitive to PWM to avoid Apple Laptops unless they will be using them with an external display that does not use PWM for brightness adjustments. There is no setting that will allow these displays to work for them. This is a design of the hardware. Many PC Laptops also work this way.

Smartphone and Tablet displays also often work this way.

I know people who "suffered with migraines" for years that went away when they got rid of their iMac. I was one of them. I walked around indoors with sunshades on because that display wrecked havoc on my eyes. I always had a headache from using it. I didn't realize the iMac was causing it until I stopped using it.

I do have an M1 Pro MBP, but I don't use it unless it's connected to an external display because of this issue. After using it for three days, I became somewhat farsighted, so my focusing distance became much longer than it was before using the laptop (can't focus as well up close, have to pull things back to read them, etc.).

IMO, there should be some sort of warning on electronics that use PWM, as the effects are scientifically and medically verified and proven... and they are harmful to many people.

Why does this happen?

Because the human eye manages how much light it lets in by dilating or constricting your pupils (this is the fundamental that camera lenses are designed around). If the display is flashing on and off, and your eyes see the dim flashes, it will dilate your pupils and then the bright flashes will lazer into your dilated pupils. Pupils usually constrict for bright lights, but it's more typical that humans experience gradual brightening of lights in the real world, not 60-120 0-to-300 nit flashes per second.

In effect, this is like looking at the sun on a bright day, and over extended periods of time, it can damage your eyes.

This has been an issue with PC monitors for many, MANY years. Every iMac that I've used since at least 2012/2013 has had this issue, and most MacBooks that I've used have had this issue.

I had to buy a specific brand and model of PC Laptop to avoid this issue (to have an actual laptop that I could use in a mobile scenario).

It's not about the reflections. It's about the NITS that the screen is outputting in those flashes, and the way the display panel manages brightness. I can put a blanket over me and the laptop and use it at 40% brightness in complete darkness, and it will still do this to me because that is simply how the technology functions. No setting will change that. The only workaround is using it with an external display that doesn't utilize PWM... Literally... that's the ONLY workaround. Everything else is placebo, 100%.
I know this follows up on the fact that screen flickers contrary to what notebookcheck.com says, but for me it creates eye strain even on external monitor. External monitor is flicker free BENQ, which is ok with Windows. Based on this and other forum where people report specifically for Macbook air M2 that external monitor is painful too with it, it is not just panel issue, but possibly GPU / firmware / software issue.
 
While using M3 Air without external screen, disabling font smoothing seems to make biggest difference in readability. Font smoothing makes no sense with high DPI screens but it is probably still there because anybody might use external non-retina screen and then start complaining about bad visual appearance.

Other thing affecting newer systems is the shift to new default resolution on 13" screen (1280 -> 1470). I iniially tried to set resolution back to 1280 as on older 13" Macbooks and it looked better, but I finally gave in to 1470 for more screen real estate. Now after disabling font smoothing (and increasing font sizes) it looks like readability on 1470 resolution is nearly same as with 1280.

Experimenting with disabling dithering did not seem to make any noticeable difference but screens and eyes may vary.
 
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Some people report good results with external portable monitor up to 16 inch size. And it is convienent to put it right on the panel and use it this way. BetterDisplay app would give more options to tinker also. The problem is - there is wide amount of choice, and time has proven that sometimes tech specs that suppose to cause eye stran - did not cause it, and vise versa. So input from folks who do have working solution and might not be drawn into these forums anymore would be very appreciated.
 
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