'Best gaming device on the market' iPod Touch?

Discussion in 'Mac and PC Games' started by Ironcell, Sep 9, 2008.

  1. Ironcell macrumors newbie

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    #1
    Steve Jobs made a rather large sweeping statement, when he declared the iPod Touch as the "Best gaming device on the market". Now of course the first thing that comes to everyone's mind is what about the PSP and DS, and how on earth could the iPhone ever compare to those two?

    Instead of just saying Steve Jobs doesn't know what he's talking about, lets entertain the idea that the iPod Touch could possibly be the best gaming device on the market.

    Lets try to list pros/cons of gaming on the iPod Touch/iPhone vs PSP/DS, I'll kick things off with my biggest gripe about PSP/DS.

    Pro, digital distribution of games, no more carrying around stacks of PSP UMDs or DS cartridges, or having to pick and choose which games you really want to bring with you, or even having to constantly switch UMD/cartridges anytime you switch games.

    So how about it, is there any strand of truth in Steve's words or is he full of it?
     
  2. capoeirista macrumors 6502

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  3. rubberball macrumors newbie

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    #3
    It's a stretch

    Great post!

    I think in the overall portable "media" experience nothing touches the iPod Touch.

    I agree with you about lugging around all of the extra games/movies/memory cards for a psp. Thats a pain.

    I'm struggling to figure out what would make a game with only a touch screen to see and to interact with the "best" gaming device on the market...

    Steve has to be the passionate salesman regardless if it is or it isn't.

    Who would want to buy something brand new that was the third best device?
     
  4. Dagless macrumors Core

    Dagless

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    #4
    Was such a stupid claim to make. It doesn't even have the potential (lack of physical buttons, lack of proper dev support (taking the big boys like Nintendo, Sony etc)).

    BUT. I would love a new iPod Touch. It's perfect for me now and as soon as I can afford it I'm getting a 32gb model but gaming will be reserved for casual, basic games. It's just not a DS or even a PSP. There's no Pokemon, no Zelda, no Mario titles.

    The interface, the thing that makes the iPod Touch, is also the thing that ruins it for gaming.
     
  5. liptonlover macrumors 6502a

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    #5
    I think it's arguably the best, at least in certain ways.

    1. The graphics are on par with the psp and ds I believe

    2. The lack of hardware controls means the developer gets to decide... it has certain limitation but allows for experimentation

    3. I think a touch screen is a better means of input than a joystick or dirpad

    4. Access to the internet allows world wide high scores, and multiplayer gaming

    5. Accelerometer is another great way for input

    6. GPS has potential for games

    7. It has a bigger screen than either the ds or psp I believe

    finally... it's open for anyone to develop on it. Individuals are generally better than big companies in my opinion
     
  6. capoeirista macrumors 6502

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    #6
    This I would agree with

    Again, yes. Experimentation will hopefully lead to some innovative new control schemes/games

    Sadly not. There is no feedback response (at the moment) from just touching the screen. I read this a while back on macrumours and other companies seem to agree

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=554380&highlight=belkin+game

    This can already be done on DS (although poorly implemented), don't know about PSP but it is internet ready too

    Agree with this one, will be interesting to see how this is done.

    Again, good point. Was there an opensource handheld that implemented this a few years ago? I can't remember. Obviously it never took off. It may have even been the n-Gage...?

    Not if you're hands are covering most of it pressing onscreen buttons...

    I agree, I hate to see independent game developers swallowed up. But sadly, to succeed as a games platform you'll be needing, Nintendo, Squeenix, etc. Will they develop Mario/Zelda/Pokemon/Final Fantasy as mentioned above. Nope. Actually Squeenix would do anything for cash so they'll probably be onboard :D

    I should get back to work...
     
  7. nick9191 macrumors 68040

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    #7
    I would easily argue it is the best gaming device. The games are much cheaper, tilt controls etc.
     
  8. 2nyRiggz macrumors 603

    2nyRiggz

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    #8
    For small games sure but Apple is not stomping the big boys just yet. The lack of actual buttons is a big con there. I can see games like monkey ball and other "touch generation" titles being big on the touch but when it comes to those hardcore RPG, FPS, TPS.....its all about Nintendo & Sony.



    Bless
     
  9. Dagless macrumors Core

    Dagless

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    #9
    They're on par with the PSP. But as it has been shown since the late 80's - graphics have never mattered much when it comes to 1) making good games and 2) making a popular gaming platform.

    There is experimentation on the DS already. And granted some games work perfect with the touchscreen alone (Kirby, Trauma Centre, etc) it doesn't work for the majority of genres.

    Lack of feedback and the ability to only press 2 buttons (so long as its multitouch) doesn't make it good for me.

    PSP and DS already have this.

    Yup, when you don't have to look at the screen at the same time.

    Not really. It can be used in certain games but never should be relied upon as a feature (such as losing connection to the GPS satellites).

    Nope, not as big as the PSP screen. Bigger than the DS but because it lacks a second screen you lose of screen visability because of the controls.

    Half agree. One of the best games I played was Cave Story, but good games like that are so rare. Whereas Nintendo put at least 5 high quality games a year on the DS, and Sony get 2-3 big title PSP games out (mostly talking the 90%+ first party titles).

    Both the DS and PSP have large homebrew scenes.
     
  10. whooleytoo macrumors 603

    whooleytoo

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    #10
    Bar the lack of physical buttons, I think I disagree with you on every single point you made! :p

    I wouldn't be surprised if there are more developers making iPhone games now than any other platform bar the PC. Just not big studios, small independent developers churning out quality innovative games like Dizzy Bee, Aurora Feint, Trism among others.

    And I think the big studios will come too. Remember, it's only been on the market 2 months, and reports of massive sales figures have only been coming out for about a month. It will be several months before we see the flood of big titles start to hit the market.

    Look who's already developing for the iPhone - id software, EA, Sega (an entire games division!), THQ! This is without any of the smooth talking and arm twisting that Sony, MS and Nintendo have to do to engender developer support.

    No, it doesn't have all the Nintendo franchises. But, it's a brand new console, and the games will come. It has the capability, the sales figures, the hype and the developers, and that's all that counts.

    I don't think the lack of buttons will hurt it, it'll encourage more innovative games, just like the Wii did. And that console isn't exactly suffering.
     
  11. whooleytoo macrumors 603

    whooleytoo

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    #11
    p.s. Steve didn't declare the iPod Touch was the best gaming device. He said you could make a good case that it was. A bit of a difference..
     
  12. GoCubsGo macrumors Nehalem

    GoCubsGo

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    #12
    I simply can't see how the Touch is the best gaming device on the market or has the potential to make such a case. It's an ok gaming device, but I can't see how it competes with my DS or the PSP.
     
  13. whooleytoo macrumors 603

    whooleytoo

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    #13
    - Innovative and unique combination of touch screen & accelerometer controls.
    - Large, high resolution display (for a mobile device).
    - Excellent graphics (the next person who says graphics don't matter is going to get hit with my patented "Wet Fish Across The Face And Go Back To Playing Pong" smiley).
    - Large amount of RAM.
    - Massive amount of persistent storage.
    - Unrivalled pseudo-instant global game distribution service.
    - LOTS of free games.
    - No game cartridges/discs to be carried around/lost/damaged.
    - WiFi for multiplayer support, high-score submission.
    - Web browsing also on game device (handy for forums/walkthroughs)
    - Lots and lots of sales (will guarantee future game titles!)
     
  14. Muncher macrumors 65816

    Muncher

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    #14
    I think we can all agree the iPod touch has potential. If it was packaged with one of those Belkin thingys we saw in the rumors, and Apple made the app store easier to use, and the graphics were updated to surpass the PSP's, then yes,
     
  15. Dagless macrumors Core

    Dagless

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    #15
    But that's just it. I love the Wii and it's possibly the most fun console I've played but it still has physical buttons! Only a tiny number of DS games rely fully on touchscreen controls.

    At the end of the day many popular genres will not work well on the iPod. There simply isn't the control capacity as the iPod stands.

    And btw - EA, Sega and THQ aren't known for their quality products :D

    Plus I wouldn't really call it innovative. We've had gyroscope based systems and touchscreens from Nintendo for a good few years now (and Pocket PC for a few years before them). It's just following the trend Nintendo have started.
    Only difference is Apple are forcing single touchscreen on players, whereas Nintendo give the option of using traditional or 'modern' controls, or (better still) a mixture of both.

    And can we stop going on about graphical performance :p The most powerful (and also most expensive) handhelds never do as well as the cheaper, least graphically capable systems. It makes no difference at all!
     
  16. BrianFD3S macrumors member

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    Ireland
    #16
    Allow me to do some friendly Apple-fanboy debunking.

    1. The PSP's screen is larger than the iPhone's. 4.3" vs 3.5".
    2. Yes, the iPhone's screen is quite a high resolution, 480 x 320, but it's not much greater than the PSP's 480 x 272.
    3. Graphics of the iPhone are nowhere near what the PSP is capable of. image. The PSP can output graphics that near the PS2's in quality.
    4. Accelerometer in a portable device is not that much of a boon when it comes to gaming. Remember, you're shaking/twisting the screen that you are also looking at.
    5. All 3 devices, iPhone + PSP + DS have homebrew potential, but the PSP and DS's are both much further advanced in terms of custom firmware and gaming.
     
  17. whooleytoo macrumors 603

    whooleytoo

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    #17
    The Wii has far fewer buttons than conventional controls - proving non-standard control methods can "take up the slack".

    Has it occurred to you that the games we've seen on consoles are a result of the control systems those consoles have? We've seen loads of consoles with d-pads and platform games, because platform games work well with d-pads. With the iPhone, we'll see games that are suited to accelerometers and touch screens. They won't necessarily be better or worse, but they'll be new. And new is good.

    As for the control system not being innovative, I've not played any console that had this combination of control methods. Which do?

    I do admit I lied. I don't actually have a wet fish & pong smiley. You will, however, be struck in the face by a fish in a freak maritime accident, and all your games will implode leaving you only with pong to play for all eternity. It's karma. You have it coming.

    Graphics matter. I'm not saying that you can't make a game with basic graphics, that's obviously untrue. But when you say graphical performance doesn't matter you're so far from reality, you can't even see reality. It's just a tiny (very pixellated, obviously!) blob on the horizon to you.

    Let me give you (real world, not hypothetical) cases where graphics have a substantial impact on gameplay:
    - I used to play Red Baron, a flight simulator, on an old, low end Mac. I had to play at near the minimum resolution, meaning I couldn't identify aircraft until they came really close. So, I ended up flying directly at every plane, if they shot at me I shot back (if still alive). If not they were friendly.
    - I played the GTA games on PS2; and with the low res textures it was nearly impossible to read the road signs unless you stopped right underneath. On the newer, HD consoles, you can find your way around, without having to pull out the map from the jewel case!
    - I played Prince of Persia on the Wii, and the graphics are dire! Nothing spoils the ambience like a messy, pixellated ray of light with compression artifacts shining across it. But far worse, at points you have to drop down behind a guard to attack from behind. But the characters are so pixellated, you can't even see which way they are facing! On a HD console, you'd potentially even be able to show facial expressions to see if the guard is awake, or dozy, or alert.

    So when you say graphical performance doesn't matter, you're wrong. Not inaccurate, not biased or partial. Not even left-of-centre. Wrong. 2 + 2 = 9.9E-10 wrong. Bad, bad raggedjimmi! :p
     
  18. capoeirista macrumors 6502

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    #18
    Those are all 3D games. Last week I was playing Castlevania: Harmony of Dissonance on my DS (it's a GBA game). It is a 2D game and doesn't have the best visuals. It's great though! Also see Vib-Ribbon (Wiki)

    Also, and obviously this is not in any way relative to 'which is best', but certainly to 'which is most popular', DS has sold what 70 million units? Also I think they are getting released for the first time in India this week. Will the Touch ever sell that many....?
     
  19. whooleytoo macrumors 603

    whooleytoo

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    #19
    This is all about the "best gaming device", not the "best gaming device only for 2D games". As I said, I'm not at all saying you can't make a fantastic game with basic, simple 2D graphics. But having the potential to deliver games with more intricate, 3D graphics gives you the options of different styles of games and gameplay. That can only be a good thing.

    And this thread is all about which is best, not which is most popular (though in terms of game libraries, those two often go together). Still, I think if you include the iTouch & iPhone - since they're two halves of the same game platform - you could easily see 70m sales within 2 to 3 years, IMO.
     
  20. kkat69 macrumors 68020

    kkat69

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    #20
    You outta know nobody here heard that, all they heard was something that SJ said and since he said it it MUST be law.

    Nobody can grasp the concept of 'marketing' where I'm sure every manufacturer claims they have the best device. But because SJ said it we have to take it a certain way, then we criticize it, tear it down, then comes the Apple bashing.

    He did say it could make the claim, but again, it's a sales pitch, that was the point, not a claim to truth. Just as MS makes claims of the best, Nintendo, PSP, all claim it, but it's what the individual user feels that matters.

    But who in this forum would believe that? Hardly any, the witch hunt mentality because SJ said something and it must be taken as God's law is out and rampant.

    But hey, I don't believe it is, but it certainly is fun TO play games on.
     
  21. whooleytoo macrumors 603

    whooleytoo

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    #21
    I actually don't have a problem with taking people to task on claims they make to sell their products. Everyone wants to portray their own product/service in the best light, but if they are misleading or dishonest they should be open to any and all criticism, IMO.

    Personally I think you could make a good case the iTouch is the best gaming device. Is it clearly the best? No. But it certainly has competitive advantages in several areas, and deserves consideration.
     
  22. carlosbutler macrumors 6502a

    carlosbutler

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    #22
    I couldnt really be bothered to read the whole thread but:

    The iPhone is NOT the best gaming device (in my opinion at least) until they release multi-player, either phone to phone or over wifi/3G. the 3G part would be excellent.

    but for so many games, it is a lot better to have actually controls, like realistic racing games (like gran turismo for psp, when ever they decide to make it) and shooting...

    and although games are a lot cheaper, you can quite easily hack a PSP to get free games, and you can now get cheap 8GB memory sticks as well.

    another down side for the iPhone is that it doesnt interact with any other console. the PSP can get all the content on your own PS3 anywhere in the world with a WiFi connection. the DS can probably do somthing interesting as well. and graphics wise its ok, but not astounding. at least from what i have seen from cromag rally, super monkey and that football game.

    games that would work very good are the games that are actually out now, platform and specific tilt ones like monkey ball, the labyrinth one and games such as echochrome would be quite good as well
     
  23. duke49er macrumors member

    duke49er

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    #23
    No, I think this is the PERFECT opportunity to say Steve doesn't know what he's talking about.

    I don't think he's ever heard of a PSP.

    If it's so great why not develop and sell some REAL games for it? Not the BS little puzzles and soccer games from the iTunes store...I mean Call of Duty and GTA type stuff for it...that's if you can possibly imagine how that would work
     
  24. Dagless macrumors Core

    Dagless

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    #24
    Not really, Nintendo (at least) have always built technology for games. It's why they pioneer input technology for home console use. Games are later adapted to new control setups but you cannot realistically control a complex game, say an FPS or most 3D games that require the intricate control of a complex character with such a basic input. It will work for some games (see the DS touchscreen only games) but not all. GTA for example would be impossible. Monster Hunter Freedom a pipedream. Precision games require precision controls.


    But they don't! Never has the 'most powerful' or graphically capable gaming system "won" a gaming generation.

    Prove me wrong! Show how the GC and Xbox won last gen, how the best selling games and highest rated games are the most graphically demanding. Before GTA IV was out Mario Galaxy, an SD resolution game lacking many modern shaders and had a limited viewable horizon, was the highest rated.
     
  25. Muncher macrumors 65816

    Muncher

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    #25
    Maybe "complex" games just aren't using their controls efficiently enough?

    Although I really enjoy 3D photo-realistic FPS shooters on Ultra High Definition panoramic displays *drools*, there are many, many other genres. Also, the iPhone/Touch hardware can handle basic 3D. Bottom line is, if anyone expects anything approaching photo-realism on a handheld, go bug sony for the next-gen psp. Apple, I think, takes a philosophy much like nintendo with their hardware. Strangely enough, when they really push this philosophy of theirs, their profits explode.

    One last point. Super Mario Galaxy was a great game, but which game do I play most on my wii? Super Smash Bros Brawl. Yes, a game that is practically 2D and could be made as such, is my favorite game.
     

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