Wow. Thank you all for such a response. I'm reading through each one and will reply accordingly.
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Best MBP for Music Production?
- Thread starter leland_07
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lol had to google "mbp". thx!
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looks like my monitor has miniDP so
my monitor has miniDP so
have yet to purchase audio interface. speakers are usb so that's covered.
[doublepost=1524536845][/doublepost]Sorry for such a heated topic, but I do really appreciate all of the passionate responses. After reading here and on the interwebz, I'm getting closer to making my purchase.
I might do some minor video editing in the future but it should be quite rare. I also don't intend to use a 5k display for music production. Like anyone else, I certainly enjoy saving money when I can IF it makes sense. Also, I've been around the tech block long enough to know that things move very quickly and I don't want to be dealing with ancient equipment.
The questions I have now are:
1. Given that I'm working primarily in the music arena and not video, can a 2015 with decent specs keep up without lagging too far behind? I plan to work with Ableton and Logic. A new comp would be great but saving $1000 or so would go a long way in helping me purchase other audio items.
2. IF a 2015 model will allow me to get a start here, what should I steer toward? Definitly i7? What GHz should I avoid?
3. I believe everyone is in agreeance I should stick with 16GB ram?
4. Since it's 2015 I understand that perhaps the one part I could be lax on would be the HD since I could change it out? But several mentioned there were minimal options here?
In the Audio Industry, you'll def want the 2015 model. I own the 2013 MBP as well as the 2016 model (both of them maxed out configs)
The legacy ports are a nice thing to have - but I wouldn't even consider that a deal breaker from the newer model. The biggest issue is that this thing is unreliable. I've been in the audio industry for 10 years. Engineering / Production & Composition and a DJ by night. I play 2-3 live shows every week and have run into nothing but issues with the newer model. Frequent audio drop outs, freezing and latency issues. My 2013 model never experienced any of this.
At first I thought I had a lemon - but after a trip to the genius bar everything checked out fine. A few friends that purchased the 2016/2017 model have had the same exact issues. Apparently with certain audio programs, it can cause the computer to freak out if you touch the Touch Bar. I would blame this on the OS, but these computers have been out for about 2 years and they have still yet to fix it.
Bottom line, if you're dealing with live performances - go with the 2015. I sure wish I purchased another one of those instead of the 2016. It essentially sits at home and I use it for Ableton now (which is still buggy, even though I'm running the latest version thats optimized for High Sierra)
If you were dealing with heavy video editing, then I would have to recommend the newer model because of the updated graphics card.
Save yourself the headache and go with an older piece of tech. I purchased a $4000 computer that certainly doesn't perform like one. I'd rather wait an additional 30-60 seconds to render an audio clip and have it be reliable for my live performances.
Good luck
The legacy ports are a nice thing to have - but I wouldn't even consider that a deal breaker from the newer model. The biggest issue is that this thing is unreliable. I've been in the audio industry for 10 years. Engineering / Production & Composition and a DJ by night. I play 2-3 live shows every week and have run into nothing but issues with the newer model. Frequent audio drop outs, freezing and latency issues. My 2013 model never experienced any of this.
At first I thought I had a lemon - but after a trip to the genius bar everything checked out fine. A few friends that purchased the 2016/2017 model have had the same exact issues. Apparently with certain audio programs, it can cause the computer to freak out if you touch the Touch Bar. I would blame this on the OS, but these computers have been out for about 2 years and they have still yet to fix it.
Bottom line, if you're dealing with live performances - go with the 2015. I sure wish I purchased another one of those instead of the 2016. It essentially sits at home and I use it for Ableton now (which is still buggy, even though I'm running the latest version thats optimized for High Sierra)
If you were dealing with heavy video editing, then I would have to recommend the newer model because of the updated graphics card.
Save yourself the headache and go with an older piece of tech. I purchased a $4000 computer that certainly doesn't perform like one. I'd rather wait an additional 30-60 seconds to render an audio clip and have it be reliable for my live performances.
Good luck
Big help considering you're in the mix of things. Thank you for taking the time to write and inform me of all that.
[doublepost=1524541589][/doublepost]What is considered a good deal when browsing over the 2015s? I found these little guys...
https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/208375613094431/
https://www.ebay.com/itm/15-MacBook...509521?hash=item1ed44808d1:g:p58AAOSwXOhaT~ng
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I'm a bit weary when it comes to purchasing second hand. I'm not sure what your budget is, but you can get one brand new from B&H - 2.8 i7 w/ 512SSD or a 1TB SSD (which is what I would choose as I like to keep my sound libraries internal now a days)
Also, considering they are brand new - you can still purchase Applecare - which is typically a must for me.
As a 20+ year music production pro, I would never even consider the newest MB "Pro". Every important component is soldered on (= non-upgradable) and the lack of a selection of ports is a joke for a purportedly "Pro" machine. Don't like the new keyboard (though that's a personal preference) or the gignormous track pad. Sacrificing actual function keys for an emoji bar is stupid. My 2010 MBP is still chugging along nicely, much because it has been easily upgradable. Apple considered this last point and flipped us the bird, so I've flipped one back by saying, "NOT BUYING."
Seriously thinking about switching to PC after over 2 decades on Mac. If they don't get it seriously right with the new Mac Pro next year, it's buuuuuu-bye Apple, all the way across the line.
Seriously thinking about switching to PC after over 2 decades on Mac. If they don't get it seriously right with the new Mac Pro next year, it's buuuuuu-bye Apple, all the way across the line.
Nbd & Jethro -
Since you're both in the industry, what am I up against in terms of storage? I know some VST libraries are quite large. Is 256GB ok b/c you can just use an external drive? Or will production programs (Ableton, Logic, etc) not work that way?
Since you're both in the industry, what am I up against in terms of storage? I know some VST libraries are quite large. Is 256GB ok b/c you can just use an external drive? Or will production programs (Ableton, Logic, etc) not work that way?
I would recommend 512gb. Ableton / Logic / Pro Tools all take up anywhere from 10-50 GB (depending what versions etc)
I personally use Komplete Ultimate (which takes up almost 400gb of space) - but you can absolutely have the bulk of your sound library on an external. (with my 2013, I use an external for about 90% of my sound libraries)
The main things you really want are a quad core i7 / 16gb of Ram and an SSD size of your choice. Of course, if you can afford a larger capacity SSD I would highly recommend it.
Planning on getting a Macbook Pro for music production (currently use Reason but want to also get into Logic), but I'm definately waiting for the 2018 update. If they do get a 6-core CPU it should result in a nice performance boost.
But I've gotta say all the issues seemingly surrounding the current design does worry me. In my country (AUS) a high spec (but not upgraded) MBP does exceed $4000.
But I've gotta say all the issues seemingly surrounding the current design does worry me. In my country (AUS) a high spec (but not upgraded) MBP does exceed $4000.
I'd personally hold off any buying decision until June and potential 2018 MBP release. You'll have the benefit of comparing the specs of the 2018 and still have the option for a 2015 model if that's your bag.
All perfectly sound arguments for a 2015, as is always the case with these questions it’s down to the OP to decide based on their own usage and priorities I was just giving the opposite view.
...fair enough - it wasn't you, but the poster who started this "sub-thread" kicked it off with "Ignore any suggestions that people give telling you to buy a 2015 MacBook Pro."
Problem is, this is one of those cases where the thread starter really needs is a 2018 evolution of the 2011 17" MacBook Pro. I don't mean a feature-to-feature equivalent (time moves on - with a retina display, you might not even need 17" any more) but a design that prioritised power and expandability over being 2mm thinner than the competition (e.g. space for an internal hard drive for bulk storage, > 16GB RAM, even they are BTO options, more ports).
Maybe so however any idea that the 17 inch was much different to the 15 inch is erroneous. An extra usb 2 port a PC Card slot and a very slightly faster cpu with an extra 512mb ram on the video card is about The current 15 inch machines offer more variation accross the options than that between the 15 inch and 17 inch in 2011.
...a PC card slot was a Big Deal in 2010/11 when Thunderbolt devices were rare and expensive - and the cards could be left in the machine semi-permanently. Maybe, today, that's not what you'd use the space for - perhaps a separate charge port (so you didn't have to waste a high-bandwidth i/o port just to power the computer) and a HDMI or MiniDP port (again - the only real advantage to bundling display and data on a single port is to save space on a mobile device).
...a third USB port is a big deal if that makes the difference needing a hub/dock & cables: one more thing to pack, unpack, set up and tear down "on the road".
Sorry, but what!? They all sport the same display & same ports, just with various permutations of CPU, GPU, RAM and storage (the last two being irrelevant c.f. an old MacBook with legitimately upgradeable RAM and HD). How much practical value is there between a 2.8 and 3.1 GHz quad i7?
The question is, though, not trying to compare 2011 features with 2018, but to ask what could Apple have packed into a 2018 machine designed, not as an every-millimetre-and-gram-counts ultrabook, but as a desktop replacement that was mainly going to shuttle between multiple desktops in the trunk of a car & could stand a bit more size and weight? More than 4 ports? Extra cooling for a more powerful - or at least less-thermally-constrained - CPU/GPU? 32GB RAM? (its going to spend 90% of its life on power) Second SD blade? Certainly a less love it/loathe it keyboard!
You have every right to disagree with apples design choices that is fine but stop pretending they ever did anything differently. The 15 inch MacBook Pro is an excellent desktop replacement for the vast majority of people’s use cases and has the added bonus of being incredibly portableand having the most I/O performance of any laptop ever made making it brilliant for single cable docking or huge throughput peripheral attachment as a professional might need. Apple are a one size fits all company iPod, iPad, iPhone, MacBook, MacBook Pro, iMac or Mac Pro one product for each line with minor spec differences for different use cases. It’s the philosophy that has made them the most successful tech company in the world.
Every millimetre and gram counts for a portable machine in my book, I agree with apples design philosophy it produces the products I want to buy and millions of people agree with me. You are perfectly within your rights to disagree and buy something else, indeed if Apple started making big heavy powerful laptops with touch screens and detachable keyboards that I don’t want or need I would just buy from someone else that made the slim light long battery life balanced laptops that I require.
I have no sympathy because you have choice, you don’t have to buy Apple and you know exactly what Apple will produce because they haven’t changed their design philosophy in over 15 years. The definition of stupid is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting something different. This applies here, stop expecting Apple to change they won’t. The only difference in 2011 was that pc OEM’s were producing such a shocking sack of doodoo for laptops that the MacBook Pro was head and shoulders above despite its limitations now they have caught up you are actually moaning about having the choice.
My general rule is get as much as you can, as fast as you can, for as much $ as you have to spend. On a laptop, if you're gonna be loading lots of samples it might be best to offload them to external drives. That's what I do, but on my desktops (Mac Pro, cheese grater). I don't do any real music production on a laptop for that reason. Got my sample libraries loaded up on various internal drives (upgraded to SDD) with the system and programs (and some data) on the boot drive. Works like a champ.
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Totally disagree. Apple has radically and stupidly changed their design philosophy in the Cook years. It used to be:
Design/form + function
now it's...
Design/form > function
It's the iToyification of their product line, and it's a noticeable departure from what they were and it's BAD. It's why I haven't bought a new actual "pro" machine from them in some 5 years and won't until and IF they get their act together, which means they must quit obsessing over thinness and emojis, among other things.
OP asked:
"Given that I'm working primarily in the music arena and not video, can a 2015 with decent specs keep up without lagging too far behind? I plan to work with Ableton and Logic. A new comp would be great but saving $1000 or so would go a long way in helping me purchase other audio items."
So long as you don't load things down with plugin after plugin after plugin, I think it would be a wise choice.
Personal experience:
I still do audio recording (just 2 channels in at a time) on my 2006 white Intel iMac, and it handles that well enough.
Music production (again, without tons of plugins) isn't that demanding on the CPU. Certainly not like video production.
I doubt you'd have any problems with a 2015 MBPro, it should handle that with ease.
DON'T plan on "changing out" the hard drive. You simply CANNOT do this with MacBook Pros as you would on a PC laptop. The internal drives are "proprietary" (Apple's own design) and they don't sell replacements. There are a couple of places that do sell replacement drives, but the drives they sell just aren't as good as the Apple OEM drives.
If you need more HD space, plug in an external USB3 drive (platter-based or SSD).
Get 16gb of RAM if you absolutely feel you must, but again, for music production I would think 8gb will be fine.
My recommendation:
A 2015 MacBook Pro 15".
Apple STILLS BUILDS AND SELLS THESE AS NEW UNITS.
They can also be bought as Apple-refurbished (comes with same 1-year warranty).
"Given that I'm working primarily in the music arena and not video, can a 2015 with decent specs keep up without lagging too far behind? I plan to work with Ableton and Logic. A new comp would be great but saving $1000 or so would go a long way in helping me purchase other audio items."
So long as you don't load things down with plugin after plugin after plugin, I think it would be a wise choice.
Personal experience:
I still do audio recording (just 2 channels in at a time) on my 2006 white Intel iMac, and it handles that well enough.
Music production (again, without tons of plugins) isn't that demanding on the CPU. Certainly not like video production.
I doubt you'd have any problems with a 2015 MBPro, it should handle that with ease.
DON'T plan on "changing out" the hard drive. You simply CANNOT do this with MacBook Pros as you would on a PC laptop. The internal drives are "proprietary" (Apple's own design) and they don't sell replacements. There are a couple of places that do sell replacement drives, but the drives they sell just aren't as good as the Apple OEM drives.
If you need more HD space, plug in an external USB3 drive (platter-based or SSD).
Get 16gb of RAM if you absolutely feel you must, but again, for music production I would think 8gb will be fine.
My recommendation:
A 2015 MacBook Pro 15".
Apple STILLS BUILDS AND SELLS THESE AS NEW UNITS.
They can also be bought as Apple-refurbished (comes with same 1-year warranty).
This is an illustration of the absurdity of the "new" Apple "pro" design philosophy (form > function) -- you can't even swap out a hard drive!! On my 2010 MPB I recently swapped out hard drives. It was easy and inexpensive. It's extended its useful life even further. THIS is what I expect out of a pro machine, not a glorified throwaway device.
Couldn't agree more - Just be careful with your purchase window and keep an eye on that conference they intend to have in June. When I was speaking with an Apple employee about my purchase, he sort of hinted that the 15 inch 2015 model is going to get the axe this year (sort of obvious since there hasn't been an update to it in quite some time)
As soon as that conference happens (and if apple removes the 2015 from the website) - head over to B&H or Adorama and scoop one up if that winds up being your choice. They'll likely sell whatever stock they have left and obviously wont be receiving more.
I'll be doing the same. Going to offload the 2016 I purchased (and take a nice hit on what I paid for it) and most likely pick up a 2015 (considering the 2018 model will most likely be more of the same)
Isn't it pathetic that we have to keep an eye on old models for snatching up, dreading the new, to get something close to what we want? Welcome to the "new" Apple. Wonder if they're listening, or just engaging in more navel gazing at their spaceship headquarters. I fear the latter.
Although this thread has gone quite sideways, it's good to hear the back and forth to better inform myself for what lies ahead. I've heard the Apple banter over the years and this was a good refresher. I'm sure I'll join the ranks with being pissed off at their proprietary choices. The wall garden has kept me away for years but a jailbreak on my 6s made it more tolerable.
Bottom line: some of us think that Apple's history and brand image justifies holding them to higher standards than we would most PC manufacturers.
...just remember to counter-balance that with the way that so much audio/MIDI equipment just plugs into Mac without any driver hassles (even if you need a USB-C dongle to do it), built-in inter-App MIDI routing, built-in composite audio interfaces...
UPDATE:
Late May 2018 I purchased a..
15" Mid 2015 2.5GHz i7
16 GB, Iris Pro 1536
Just wanted to thank you guys for taking the time to provide sincere help for a stranger and help guide me in the right direction. I'm currently enrolled at Berkley for music production and really enjoying my "new" laptop. I keep learning new tricks (or really just basic use) everyday regarding the Mac OS since I've been windows my entire life.
ie: cmd + right cursor = END ... who knew??? (me)
Late May 2018 I purchased a..
15" Mid 2015 2.5GHz i7
16 GB, Iris Pro 1536
Just wanted to thank you guys for taking the time to provide sincere help for a stranger and help guide me in the right direction. I'm currently enrolled at Berkley for music production and really enjoying my "new" laptop. I keep learning new tricks (or really just basic use) everyday regarding the Mac OS since I've been windows my entire life.
ie: cmd + right cursor = END ... who knew??? (me)