Best...news...EVER :) :)

[Ping Guo]

Colleges in the US are surperior to those in France (and Europe),

I think this pretty much sums it up.

although secondary school might be an adantage for Europe. A lot of Europeans study abroad in the US all 4 years. In less wealthy European countires (Spain, Italy, etc) a degree over there doesn't even matter because there aren't any jobs outside of the major cities.

Wow. Where to begin? First of all, Spain and Italy aren't "less wealthy" EU countries. Out of the 27 EU members, Italy and Spain rank 12th and 13th, respectively, in gross national income. The per capita income is 2-3x that of poorer countries like Latvia and Lithuania. You seem to have Spain in 2009 confused with Mexico in 1809. Also, EU members can travel freely and seek employment within the member countries. Sort of like leaving a podunk town in the US for opportunities in a bigger city.

France's higher education system, particularly the Grandes écoles, is on par with American Ivy Leagues and Cambridge/Oxford in the UK. While American "higher education" factories pump out thousands of Art History, Religion, and Communications majors, European schools emphasize applied sciences, engineering, and mathematics. It is true that US Universities still attract the best and brightest post-grads to their science and engineering programs, which is why these classes are full of foreign students.

This might help explain why 1 in 5 Americans believe the sun revolves around the earth.

 

[Unprocessed1]

I think this pretty much sums it up.



Wow. Where to begin? First of all, Spain and Italy aren't "less wealthy" EU countries. Out of the 25 EU members, Italy and Spain rank 12th and 13th, respectively, in gross national income. The per capita income is 2-3x that of poorer countries like Latvia and Lithuania. You seem to have Spain in 2009 confused with Mexico in 1809. Also, EU members can travel freely and seek employment within the member countries. Sort of like leaving a podunk town in the US for opportunities in a bigger city.

France's higher education system, particularly the Grandes écoles, is on par with American Ivy Leagues and Cambridge/Oxford in the UK. While American "higher education" factories pump out thousands of Art History, Religion, and Communications majors, European schools emphasize applied sciences, engineering, and mathematics. It is true that US Universities still attract the best and brightest post-grads to their science and engineering programs, which is why these classes are full of foreign students.

This might help explain why 1 in 5 Americans believe the sun revolves around the earth.

In my defense, I'm typing on my Dell keyboard (laptop) for the first time in over a year, didn't proof read, and unlike my mac, apparently vista doesn't underline misspelled words here on MR (which is interesting).

So yes, I'm blaming Dell and Windows Vista.

And btw: it was clear those errors were typos...cleary there is a 'v' in advantage.

I don't think many French universities are on par with Yale or Harvard. The UK is the only other country which has universities on par with the best of the US. I don't think many people would agree with you that France has better universities than the US, and no global college ranking system would agree with you either. High School is different, however. The US has mediocre secondary schools in many school districts (but not all).

Also America has a huge advantage in innovation and tech development, which is something that apparently died in Europe decades ago.

Some Americans are dumb. Very dumb, they did come from Europe after all . But the US also has a huge population and most young Americans are now going to a 4 year university/college, many the first in their family to do so. Hopefully the educated to dumb ratio will naturally diminish in the next 10-20 years (if a degree is worth anything these days).

 

[dwsolberg]

I've been waiting for WWDC so I could pick up my macbook aluminum (hopefull update, no matter how small the specs bump), and to get the free ipod touch (which would hopefully have the 3.0 software) but I would prefer to pick it up at my nearest Apple Store (20 min. away). When would you think they'd have the updated macbook aluminums/ipod touches with 3.0 software in stock? Long post, I know, sorry.

The MacBooks will be updated at some point, but I doubt it will coincide with the developers conference next week. As for the iPod 3.0 software, it will most likely be released sometime around early July. Of course, the developers conference usually has some surprises, so it doesn't hurt to wait. I doubt it will change your choices, though.

 

[opinioncircle]

Colleges in the US are surperior to those in France (and Europe), although secondary school might be an adantage for Europe. A lot of Europeans study abroad in the US all 4 years. In less wealthy European countires (Spain, Italy, etc) a degree over there doesn't even matter because there aren't any jobs outside of the major cities.

I would disagree with you. I don't think one is better than the other, it's just that the education system is really different (even inside the EU) that you can't really compare the two. However, in my opinion, European students are more opened to the world compared to the US students.
It's not to say that US students are all DUMB DUMB about what's going on outside the US, but I feel that EU students have a broader view on the world in general.
Spain and Italy are wealthier than some US states. Your assumption could result into something like this:
"Since states like Kentucky or Montana are less wealthy than California, a degree over there doesn't even matter". You can find jobs outside major cities. Tourism accounts for a lot of business in these "less wealthier" countries...

My point was that regarding philsophy, I think Europe has the edge over the US regarding education...

@ordo1980: The health care system in France is a utopia on crack . Trust me, if you're entitled to something and that you play by the rules, chances are you won't get anything (doesn't make sense I know). The idea of the French health care system is a good one, but I think Canada has achieved what France couldn't.
Oh and by the way, I would TOTALLY move to Australia, had I not fallen in love with the US.

Again sorry for the off topic

 

[mags631]

Just watch for the packs of stray, wild dogs when you go off to school.[/QUOTE

Uummm......what? Lol.

Talladega Nights quote.

 

[iKatianarie]

Talladega Nights quote.

UGH! I should have gotten that! Lol, Im a little slow today.

 

[Dr.Pants]

...the US also has a huge population and most young Americans are now going to a 4 year university/college, many the first in their family to do so.

I am living proof.

But to the OP, congratulations on your award. To quote a movie, with great power come great responsibility

 

[sanPietro98]

I ACCUMULATED ROUGHLY 1,500!!!!!!!!

Now the I.R.S. knows.

 

[duncanapple]

Here, in France, education is a right and not a product. Laugh all you want at France, but I think this principle should prevail in today's economy...
I know, a little off topic

I'm going to have to disagree with you here - college is not a right - its something you earn through hard work in high school plus a mix of extracurriculars, development, etc. Some people just aren't cut out for college and there are lots of jobs that certainly don't require it. Sense of (false) entitlement is killing the US imo.

 

[baschdi]

@op: congratulations!

I don't think many French universities are on par with Yale or Harvard. The UK is the only other country which has universities on par with the best of the US. I don't think many people would agree with you that France has better universities than the US, and no global college ranking system would agree with you either. High School is different, however. The US has mediocre secondary schools in many school districts (but not all).

Also America has a huge advantage in innovation and tech development, which is something that apparently died in Europe decades ago.

Some Americans are dumb. Very dumb, they did come from Europe after all . But the US also has a huge population and most young Americans are now going to a 4 year university/college, many the first in their family to do so. Hopefully the educated to dumb ratio will naturally diminish in the next 10-20 years (if a degree is worth anything these days).

just because the best universities are in usa or uk, does not mean all universities there are better than mainland europe universities.
and tech development and innovations are still part of europe, but u amercians think, what u produce is completely developed in usa.
i wont argue that the US has the best opprtunities for young people, but europe is not all bad, so don't exaggerate

 

[testcard]

And to clarify, I am a SHE, as Richard1028 stated.

Er...I think we have those over here in England, just need to check first Anyway (anyways?), didn't understand a word of the OP's post, but I believe congratulations are in order

 

[ordo1980]

@ordo1980: The health care system in France is a utopia on crack . Trust me, if you're entitled to something and that you play by the rules, chances are you won't get anything (doesn't make sense I know). The idea of the French health care system is a good one, but I think Canada has achieved what France couldn't.
Oh and by the way, I would TOTALLY move to Australia, had I not fallen in love with the US.

Yes, I was speaking more broadly in terms of every other western industrialized country having universal health care. France is one, and yes, Canada is another example. Australia too. It's pretty sad that the US can't do better, or at least hasn't been. I like getting a good deal for the taxes I pay. Lately, I cringe at the thought of all the money that has been and is still being wasted in Iraq and yet I have no health insurance. Thankfully I'll have insurance this fall in law school. It's pretty sad. Maybe if idiots in this country think for a change and we get health care for all, then maybe I'll begin to think I'm getting something substantive in return for my tax dollars and I'll give Australia a miss. Otherwise, nothing here in the U.S. really impresses me, especially when my uncle could get me a good job being an attorney in Australia 5 minutes from the beach. Totally works for me. Then I'd have real opportunity like this country used to promise but hasn't been delivering on. That is, education and health care, and not being screwed with 80k in debt because you did what you had been told your whole life was the "right" thing... getting a good education at a top university. Just overall a pathetic state of affairs in this country. It's not about entitlement, it's about equal opportunity for all regardless of race, sex, gender, and yes... income.

 

[gan6660]

Congrats! Hope this happens to me in 2 years

 

[duncanapple]

That is, education and health care, and not being screwed with 80k in debt because you did what you had been told your whole life was the "right" thing... getting a good education at a top university. Just overall a pathetic state of affairs in this country. It's not about entitlement, it's about equal opportunity for all regardless of race, sex, gender, and yes... income.

The thing is, that 80K in debt isn't all that big a deal compared to the potential jobs you could get b/c of the college education. Its a tough job market right now to be sure, but this will get better and its far from the norm. When you factor in the low(er) interest loans students get, the fact that you can write off the interest you pay on the loan, and the fact that the loans are typically over anywhere from 15-30 years, we are talking about a nominal amount of money. And if this burden is still too much, try your first couple years at a community college to knock out some prereqs at a MUCH cheaper cost. Point is, you knew the price going into it. Education, housing, and feeding you for 4 years is expensive.

And not to be overly inflammartory here, but when you are talking in regards to cost and equal oppertunity, if you are a minority or low income, you will have FAR less in loans that the eqivalent student who isnt a minority. This is fact, I have experienced it my whole life.

Like I said above, college is NOT a right. Not everyone is cut out for it, and if you are, there are ways to pay for it. I think another adjustment the US is going to go through is perhaps not every family will send their little "johnny or suzie" to private universities when the public ones are as good if not better!

FWIW, I am coming from the perspective of someone who went to a private jesuit university. I paid over 24K a year for JUST tuition. I had a 28 on my ACT (im not the best at those standarized tests) and a 3.8 in High School. 4/6 of my 6 semesters in that private university (I transferred there my soph year) I had a 4.0. Guess what I had in scholarships? about 2K. Its almost laughable. My family was very middle class. I had friends going there with lesser grades that literally had aid packages that exceeded their tuition. Yep, they got cut checks for spending money lol. Im not saying cry me a river, but I am saying its a choice you make, one thats not owed to you nor a right, and one thats very doable even if you dont have the means.

Sorry to rant and butt in OP - this one hits close to home I guess. Congrats on the macbook - just dont leave that bad boy on a library table and walk away. At the min invest in a cable to lock to keep the honest people honest!

 

[opinioncircle]

The thing is, that 80K in debt isn't all that big a deal compared to the potential jobs you could get b/c of the college education. Its a tough job market right now to be sure, but this will get better and its far from the norm. When you factor in the low(er) interest loans students get, the fact that you can write off the interest you pay on the loan, and the fact that the loans are typically over anywhere from 15-30 years, we are talking about a nominal amount of money. And if this burden is still too much, try your first couple years at a community college to knock out some prereqs at a MUCH cheaper cost. Point is, you knew the price going into it. Education, housing, and feeding you for 4 years is expensive.


Like I said above, college is NOT a right. !

Note: I'm off topic ....
I don't think starting your professional life with 80k in debt is a healthy way to start your life. May be this is just me, but getting a job is to get paid, not repay loans...
Again, this is a philosophy issue, I think higher education is a right that everybody has the right to. It's not about whether or not you can pull it off, because at one point your own capacities will limit you, but it's about not restraining kids from going to college just because they don't have the money to pay for crazy fees.
I think that education shouldn't have a price tag on it, and that scholarships should be looked at closely. I don't see why the son of Micheal Jordan would have a scholarship, when a "nerd" like anyone of us wouldn't, just because we don't play basketball. This may be unrealistic but that's my 2 cents anyway

 

[Primejimbo]

Congrats, that's very cool!!!

 

[Capt Crunch]

Note: I'm off topic ....
I don't think starting your professional life with 80k in debt is a healthy way to start your life. May be this is just me, but getting a job is to get paid, not repay loans...
Again, this is a philosophy issue, I think higher education is a right that everybody has the right to. It's not about whether or not you can pull it off, because at one point your own capacities will limit you, but it's about not restraining kids from going to college just because they don't have the money to pay for crazy fees.
I think that education shouldn't have a price tag on it, and that scholarships should be looked at closely. I don't see why the son of Micheal Jordan would have a scholarship, when a "nerd" like anyone of us wouldn't, just because we don't play basketball. This may be unrealistic but that's my 2 cents anyway

You need to draw the line somewhere. It is not a right to be able to go to medical school. It is not a right to get a PhD. Similarly, it is not a right to get a bachelors. It is a right to get a HS education because one is not an adult when you're in HS.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, can get a college education. They do well in HS, get a loan, and go to college. The problem arises when people take out loans to study philosophy. I don't want my tax dollars to be spent on Doofus McGee to study psychology because college is a great place to bang women. If you do engineering, math, or anything useful, it is possible to repay the loans. Thus the loans and their interest are an investment into your future. If college educations were subsidized, I would expect the application process to be much more competitive or for some service (teaching perhaps) to be required.