Best Photo enhancement software for aspiring photographer?

[Mad Mac Maniac]

Ok so if Aperture and Lightroom are photo enhancement programs...

and photoshop cs5 is photo enhancement/edit/modification on steriods...

and elements is a scaled down version of photoshop...

where exactly does Elements fit in compared with aperature and lightroom?


Let me explain myself. In my mind, I imagine AP and LR as handling all major photo enhancements, and then photoshop can suppliment their offerings if you need to happen to need its powerful options for more obscure cases.

Would Elements serve the same purpose as AR and LR (great alone, but phenominal when paired with photoshop)? Or could you pair Elements with AR or LR, treating Elements as photoshop (or would that be silly because Elements can't do more than AR or LR)? Would pairing Elements with photoshop be redundant and silly (like if I were to buy both MS Office '08 and MS Office '11)?

Also, can photoshop do EVERYTHING that all of the above can do but in a complex/overkill format?

Wow, I'm really sorry for the long rant let me summarize by stating my opinion on each.
Aperture- Great alone. Provides nearly all enhancement needs. Simple. phenominal when paired with PS
Lightroom- Great alone. Provides nearly all enhancement needs. Simple. phenominal when paired with PS
Elements- Good alone. Provides most enhancement needs. Inexpensive. Can be paired with PS for more power
Photoshop CS5- The ultimate tool. Can do everything the other 3 can. Expensive. Complicated. Overkill.

Are any of those assumptions off base?

By the way THANK YOU so much everyone for all of your great responses! This is all fantastic information!

 

[Bending Pixels]

Photoshop Elements is really the lower end consumer version of Photoshop. Could a pro photographer use it? Sure. Would you be "respected" less for using Elements over CS5? You bet.

Aperture 3 has some distinct advantages in that it has the ability to produce photo books (and in fact has plug-ins available for other book publishers other than Apple) - something that is an advantage to a wedding photographer.

Your description of Aperture or Lightroom handling the majority of photo editing, and PS CS5 for the more obscure (or difficult or creative situations) is spot on.

Adobe provides a good description of how Lightroom and CS5 integrate - http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/family/prosolutions/

My personal suggestion - start with Aperture 3 or Lightroom. FWW, Aperture 3 is pretty easy to master. I've been using Photoshop since 2000, and find Aperture 3 to be as effective as Photoshop. I still use Photoshop for HDR and special editing issues that Aperture doesn't have the ability to do (same would apply for Lightroom).

Once you've got several weddings under your belt, then add on Photoshop. Also, consider joining NAPP (www.photoshopuser.com) and using some of the Kelby Training online courses (www.kelbytraining.com). There are numerous ones on Photoshop, wedding photography, Aperture, Lightroom that you'll definitely benefit from. About twice a year, I sign up for a month's worth of access and go to town, going through their latest courses.

 

[Vantage Point]

Elements is a path to Photoshop and once you graduate to Photoshop you will stop using Elements. That's what I did - I made the move in 2005 and never looked back

Aperture or Lightroom - you don't need both and having both is not a good idea since edits in one do not appear in the other - this applies to RAW files or any other non-destruction edits

Aperture pairs well with Photoshop and can also pair with Elements, the same is true of Lightroom which pairs with Photoshop. Both Aperture and Lightroom can be used alone and many people use Aperture or LR for 90% + of their work.

All of the above can provide professional looking results. Aperture is probably the easiest to learn while Photoshop is the most difficult. Also, if you shoot Nikon you might want to consider Capture NX 2 as well for editing - also relatively easy to learn.

One other point, your wife should be part of this. Selection of an editing program is a personal choice because they all work. As a photographer I couldn't possibly comprehend someone else picking the software I would use for me. That's 10x worse than having someone else order my meal at a restaurant or shop for my cloths. Any other info you get out of this thread will be variation of what has already been said. She needs to read this and then pick one, download the free trial and play with it. If happy then buy, if not then try another one with the trial version. As a senior moderator of a photography forum I can say that everyone uses something different and what they use is not related to the result, the result is a combination of their skill in the capture and post processing skill, the software is by far the least relevant.

Also, the above is not the end. There is also specialized software that most pros and advanced amateurs use for specialized tasks like HDR, Panorama, Portraits. I use CS5 and shot mostly nature and wildlife, but also use Portrait Professional for people and software like Unified Color for HDR's which give a natural look - 20% discount code for that. As for my background I in this area I have won 2 International Contests and my work will be on exhibit in the Smithsonian this year and as mentioned above, a moderator at a Photography website. It is first about the photographer, then about the lens, then the camera, then the post processing skills/software. Software doesn't make a bad picture good, it makes a good picture better

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

Elements is a path to Photoshop and once you graduate to Photoshop you will stop using Elements. That's what I did - I made the move in 2005 and never looked back

Aperture or Lightroom - you don't need both and having both is not a good idea since edits in one do not appear in the other - this applies to RAW files or any other non-destruction edits

Aperture pairs well with Photoshop and can also pair with Elements, the same is true of Lightroom which pairs with Photoshop. Both Aperture and Lightroom can be used alone and many people use Aperture or LR for 90% + of their work.

All of the above can provide professional looking results. Aperture is probably the easiest to learn while Photoshop is the most difficult. Also, if you shoot Nikon you might want to consider Capture NX 2 as well for editing - also relatively easy to learn.

One other point, your wife should be part of this. Selection of an editing program is a personal choice because they all work. As a photographer I couldn't possibly comprehend someone else picking the software I would use for me. That's 10x worse than having someone else order my meal at a restaurant or shop for my cloths. Any other info you get out of this thread will be variation of what has already been said. She needs to read this and then pick one, download the free trial and play with it. If happy then buy, if not then try another one with the trial version. As a senior moderator of a photography forum I can say that everyone uses something different and what they use is not related to the result, the result is a combination of their skill in the capture and post processing skill, the software is by far the least relevant.

Also, the above is not the end. There is also specialized software that most pros and advanced amateurs use for specialized tasks like HDR, Panorama, Portraits. I use CS5 and shot mostly nature and wildlife, but also use Portrait Professional for people and software like Unified Color for HDR's which give a natural look - 20% discount code for that. As for my background I in this area I have won 2 International Contests and my work will be on exhibit in the Smithsonian this year and as mentioned above, a moderator at a Photography website. It is first about the photographer, then about the lens, then the camera, then the post processing skills/software. Software doesn't make a bad picture good, it makes a good picture better

Thank you for all your insight above! I really appreciate it

And don't worry, I wasn't planning on making the decision for my wife. I just wanted to get as much information about the products as possible and share that with her. MacRumors always has so many knowledgable people. I'm definitely going to encourage her to download all of the trials and see what fits her needs best. But from what I've gathered in this thread, it would seem that either aperture or lightroom would best fit her needs(depending on her preference). Then CS5 and/or other specific software can be added a few years down the line if she wants to master even more aspects of her photography.

Thanks All!! If anyone still has any tips, advice, insight, or comparisons between the pros/cons of any of the software please let me know!!! Or any general tips/advice/insight for a beginner/aspiring photographer!

 

[Vantage Point]

The only tip I want to give is this. Download the trial version when you are ready to devote a big blog of time to using it. Have a number of sample images ready to work with and then work them. Spend time with it. Then after you spent a week or so with one then, and only then, consider downloading a trial of something different and then put in the time. Just dabbling here and there, or going back and forth won't give you a real feel for what it is like to work with one vs the other. Whenever I want to evaluate software that is what I do - wait for when I am ready and then immerse myself in it.

Also, keep in mind first impressions mean nothing. Only after you have learned the little tips and tricks to get quickly from A to B can you decide which one fits your needs and style best.

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

Aperture pairs well with Photoshop and can also pair with Elements, the same is true of Lightroom which pairs with Photoshop. Both Aperture and Lightroom can be used alone and many people use Aperture or LR for 90% + of their work.

Does it really make sense to pair Aperture with Elements? If we were to start off with aperture, would later adding Elements actually add more capability or would it make more sense to wait until ready to utilize the full photoshop CS5? Because it doesn't really seem like Elements would provide any enhancements beyond what Aperture or Lightroom can already do.

 

[Bending Pixels]

Does it really make sense to pair Aperture with Elements?

Disclaimer - Personal Opinion ONLY

The short answer - no

The longer short anser - no - you're not gaining much in editing capabilities with Photoshop Elements (other than perhaps Layers) beyond Aperture 3. Aperture 3 and PS CS5 is a great kick butt combo.

I know a number of pro photographers that use both Aperture and PS CS5 for post production. Equally the same number use Lightroom and PS CS5. Almost all do 90-95% of their post processing in either Aperture or Lightroom.

 

[Bending Pixels]

"Oh...one more thing"

Double ditto's on Vantage Point's suggestion on downloading trial versions of both Lightroom and Aperture.

What I'd do (and have done) is to install a separate version of Snow Leopard on an external HD and used that to test software and other settings. By holding down the Option key when you boot, and having an external HD connected, you can boot to the external drive. The advantage is that you can test software to your hearts content without it potentially affecting your main hard drive.

 

[snberk103]

I hope your wife is also getting some training on how to shoot a wedding. There is not point getting the Post Prod. software if the images are not there to begin with.

Also, get some training in the business aspects, the tax implications, etc etc. Also, don't forget the insurance. You will need to insure your equipment from loss (don't forget to get the loss of use coverage) ... and most importantly liability insurance. I've heard that the highest # of claims for photographers (of all types) is for wedding photographers that have backed into people/tables/chairs/cakes/floral-displays/food-service- stations/etc while shooting. If you are in the US, check to make sure your medical insurance covers you for injuries incurred while working.

Most household insurance will not cover camera gear if being used for professional purposes. Not telling them can open you up for civil litigation should you make a claim.

Then make sure you charge enough to cover all the costs of the above, plus the cost of the new computers every 3 years or so, new camera gear every couple of years, advertizing, professional development, etc etc

Good Luck... but it is hard work. Don't try to compete on price. You will always be undercut by people who have priced themselves into bankruptcy. It is better to aim for the high-end where people will pay for time to get a really good product.

ps.. I am not a wedding photographer, I made a decision when I entered the professional that I didn't need the stress. I do teach photography, including people who are becoming wedding shooters. Your wife needs to find and develop a distinctive style. When a "needs" a style, price becomes less of an issue.

 

[Vantage Point]

Does it really make sense to pair Aperture with Elements?

What I said was, Aperture pairs well with Photoshop and CAN also pair with Elements. Not my first choice which would be Photoshop. Elements would offer a few nice touches like being able to add text to your pictures and doing some creative work with layering. So for about $60 or whatever Elements cost is can pair with Aperture. Also, consider it a cheap way to learn a few things about Photoshop so it the day ever comes to invest in PS the learning curve will be far less. If you start off with both Aperture and Photoshop then you might go a bit crazy for a while.

 

[snberk103]

It may also help if you clarified whether by "Pro Photographer" you mean your wife wants to try to support herself (as part of a family, of course) by doing weddings as a career, or whether she means that she would like to make some money part-time, but it's not really career?

 

[lee14160]

As a professional photographer for going on 45 years I will say only this:

There is nothing out there better than "Photoshop CS5." Nothing, period.

 

[Vantage Point]

As a professional photographer for going on 45 years I will say only this:

There is nothing out there better than "Photoshop CS5." Nothing, period.

Exactly. I have said for years that all roads eventually lead to Photoshop. I moved form Elements to Photoshop 6 years ago.

 

[Vantage Point]

Aperture 3

Okay, I have mentioned that I am a Photoshop user and I also said that Aperture might be the most cost effect way to break in with a 'not as steep as Photoshop Learning curve'. Well, Apple just made this decision a no-brainer.

Aperture is now available at the new App Store (you need to update to 10.6..6 first) for only $79 I guess you can't afford to not to consider it. I've been using Bridge with Photoshop and will consider Aperture + CS5 now

 

[Pipper99]

Ok so if Aperture and Lightroom are photo enhancement programs...

and photoshop cs5 is photo enhancement/edit/modification on steriods...

and elements is a scaled down version of photoshop...

where exactly does Elements fit in compared with aperature and lightroom?


Let me explain myself. In my mind, I imagine AP and LR as handling all major photo enhancements, and then photoshop can suppliment their offerings if you need to happen to need its powerful options for more obscure cases.

Would Elements serve the same purpose as AR and LR (great alone, but phenominal when paired with photoshop)? Or could you pair Elements with AR or LR, treating Elements as photoshop (or would that be silly because Elements can't do more than AR or LR)? Would pairing Elements with photoshop be redundant and silly (like if I were to buy both MS Office '08 and MS Office '11)?

Also, can photoshop do EVERYTHING that all of the above can do but in a complex/overkill format?

Wow, I'm really sorry for the long rant let me summarize by stating my opinion on each.
Aperture- Great alone. Provides nearly all enhancement needs. Simple. phenominal when paired with PS
Lightroom- Great alone. Provides nearly all enhancement needs. Simple. phenominal when paired with PS
Elements- Good alone. Provides most enhancement needs. Inexpensive. Can be paired with PS for more power
Photoshop CS5- The ultimate tool. Can do everything the other 3 can. Expensive. Complicated. Overkill.

Are any of those assumptions off base?

By the way THANK YOU so much everyone for all of your great responses! This is all fantastic information!

Thanks for taking the time to so carefully ask these questions. I've had the same confusion/questions regarding the various photo editing options. Your questions and the replies here have helped me a lot.

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

Okay, I have mentioned that I am a Photoshop user and I also said that Aperture might be the most cost effect way to break in with a 'not as steep as Photoshop Learning curve'. Well, Apple just made this decision a no-brainer.

Aperture is now available at the new App Store (you need to update to 10.6..6 first) for only $79 I guess you can't afford to not to consider it. I've been using Bridge with Photoshop and will consider Aperture + CS5 now

yes i noticed that!! and I got so excited! But my wife will still try out both aperture and lightroom probably to make her decision. You don't suppose this is a limited time offer do you? There's no indication of such.

I also have a couple more questions. Photographers post their pictures with their business logo on the front to prevent copying. Can this be done in Aperture and Lightroom? Elements? CS5? If not then how is this done?

Additionally, the photo book feature in aperture has perked my wifes interest (we read through this whole thread last night). I also have iPhoto '11 which also makes photo books. Does aperture have additional features for creating more professional photo books or is it identical to iPhoto? I know one perk is being able to install plugins for other publishers besides Apple.

Thanks for taking the time to so carefully ask these questions. I've had the same confusion/questions regarding the various photo editing options. Your questions and the replies here have helped me a lot.

I'm glad you have found help from my ignorance! The people I am really thankful for are vantage point, bending pixels, and all the others who have commented!

 

[snberk103]

...

I also have a couple more questions. Photographers post their pictures with their business logo on the front to prevent copying. Can this be done in Aperture and Lightroom? Elements? CS5? If not then how is this done?
...

Lightroom, iirc, natively contains the ability to "watermark" your photos with some text (perhaps graphics too). However, LR can be extended with numerous plug-ins. I have one that gives much more control over where the plug-ins appear, and their appearance. I don't have LR on this computer, so can't look it up .... but google "Light Room Plug-ins" for a sense of whats available.

LR also has a module for creating on-line web galleries, and print packages (2 - 5x7, 1 -8x10 prints, etc) on a single sheet of paper. I don't actually provide this to my clients, so I can't compare or really comment.

However, one of the things to keep in mind is that the Primary purpose of Aperture and Light Room is not image editing, but image management. They also do editing, but that is an extra feature - which they do very well. Primarily they were designed to keep 10s of thousands of images organized, so that you (and your wife) can find them again, and so that you can "export" the image into different formats for different uses.

Read up and understand about keywording before you start adding the bulk of your images (it's much much easier to keyword as you import - as you go, rather than waiting and catching up later.) In LR, you don't "save" an image. Once you and your wife understand why, you will get the best use out of LR. I think Aperture is the same.

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

It may also help if you clarified whether by "Pro Photographer" you mean your wife wants to try to support herself (as part of a family, of course) by doing weddings as a career, or whether she means that she would like to make some money part-time, but it's not really career?

Well she just graduated from college, and she doesn't really know what she wants to do. Ever since we got married (a few months ago) she has REALLY been into weddings. She loves watching wedding things on TV and is always looking through strangers wedding photos on facebook. She has always liked/done art since she was little but took business in college. She really wants to try to do something that uses her artistic side. Enter photography.

So she currently is a stay-at-home wife, but she is taking up photography basically from zero knowledge, just enthusiasm. She understands that it will take a while to learn the business and actually start making money from it. So the plan is for her to get a job now while she takes photography classes, fine tunes her skills, and builds her portfolio. The hope is to one day drop the other job and solely have her photography business.

 

[Vantage Point]

If you haven't seen this then its work a look - it is How to videos for Aperture
http://www.apple.com/aperture/how-to/

I do mostly nature and wildlife photography but I know a bit about event photography. Forgetting the software for a moment she has a lot to learn and master. Lighting is critical, fast glass is vital, a second or backup camera is critical and composition is king. An investment in speedlights, cameras and good glass will add up quickly to several grand. A Nikon 70-200 f/2.8 lens is over $2,000 and a Nikon 24-70 or 17-55 f/2.8 is approximately $1500. Those two lenses (or the Canon equivalent) are the bread a butter lenses for any event work - cheaper, slower f/5.6 lenses just don't cut it, especially for background blurring from shallow DOF. You will also need a backup lens - perhaps a 3rd party lens just in case. Two bodies will be roughly $3,000 and speedlights a few hundred each. You cannot shoot events without backups if you do not want to get sued for a failed shoot of a once in a lifetime event.

So as you can see the cost of the software is minimal compared to the hardware investment. Then there are the people you must deal with which can be arrogant, insulting and treat you like crap at times. They will expect miracles. Fat people don't want to look fat in their picture and you will be expected to know how to slim down here and there. Make the eyes sparkle - catch light is the best way.

 

[mdatwood]

First, what's important is the end result. It doesn't matter if you use PS, Elements or a hex editor and change the pixels by hand.

Second, no amount of post processing will fix a bad photograph. A good picture happens or doesn't happen the second the shutter is clicked. Focus on the original picture first. This means buying a decent body (used is fine) and some good glass.

When it comes to software your wife should buy AP (it's on sale in the app store for $79) and learn it inside and out by working with the 100s - 1000s of pictures she should be taking every week. IMHO, something like AP or LR is required just to manage the number of pictures a professional will take.

I know quite a few of professional photographers and they all started by doing free shoots for friends and then friends of friends ('free' will get the photographer a lot of forgiveness) until they had built a portfolio and felt comfortable charging people. Another good option is to assist a current professional if you know anyone.

Finally, remember that it's a business. Taking great pictures is only part of it. Your wife will need to figure out her marketing hook, prices, and how to deal with people.

 

[bocomo]

For Photo editing, there is nothing better then Photoshop. As for Aperture and Lightroom, they're not editing programs but rather DAM, Digital Asset Management apps. They have some editing, and depending on your needs, the editing features may be sufficient. Their power comes in managing images, categorizing, keywording, organizing, etc.

wrong

Aperture or Lightroom are photo editors in addition to photo collection managers

one of them would be perfect for what you describe

(they are basically the same thing, with some differences that may make you prefer one to the other)

 

[bocomo]

Both Aperture and Lightroom have sufficient editing controls for most users. I would suggest she try them both (they both have 30 day free trials) and pick whichever is most comfortable. Photoshop is useful for heavy editing which she is unlikely to need. And Bridge (which comes with Photoshop) is pretty cumbersome as an asset manager.

this

 

[Pipper99]

I'm glad you have found help from my ignorance!

Well, you did a good job asking the questions which is better than I was able to do. I've learned a lot here, and I think that I'll go with Aperture (especially considering the price drop in the App Store).

 

[Pipper99]

So she currently is a stay-at-home wife, but she is taking up photography basically from zero knowledge, just enthusiasm. She understands that it will take a while to learn the business and actually start making money from it. So the plan is for her to get a job now while she takes photography classes, fine tunes her skills, and builds her portfolio. The hope is to one day drop the other job and solely have her photography business.

A friend of mine is a stay at home mother, and she's taken up baby photography: she seems to be progressing nicely.

This looks like it will be very useful for learning Aperture if you go that route: http://www.amazon.com/Apple-Pro-Tra...7440/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1294417435&sr=8-1

 

[Mad Mac Maniac]

A friend of mine is a stay at home mother, and she's taken up baby photography: she seems to be progressing nicely.

Well that's good to hear

So as you can see the cost of the software is minimal compared to the hardware investment.

Very true. Best idea to just pick what works best

Lightroom, iirc, natively contains the ability to "watermark" your photos with some text (perhaps graphics too).

Anybody know if Aperture does this too?