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I will emphasise I'm not talking about the physical footprint when I say heavier but the cpu and read/write demands of a modern OS - there's so much more code for the processor to chew through.
This reminds me of a 'debate' I once had with a lecturer.. the students were wanting to run heavy weight programs like GIS and CAD and the usual image editing and word processing all at the same time...but were complaining about the speed factor. Tried explaining that you cant just keep loading stuff on a donkey forever ...theres a limit.
 
Is MorphOS the one you pay for a full license?
Yes, it's 80 euros for a perpetual, one-machine license.

Yeah, I didn't think that Linux disliked noobs that much though.
As @lepidotós put it, it doesn't. It's just a piece of software that enables you to do things... many cool things, if you know what buttons to press, so to speak. Nothing more, nothing less. PPC machines are a niché so support can be sketchy, but for x86 there are numerous distros which are at least as easy-to-install and use as Windows or macOS, provided you don't have an exotic-but-crucial piece of hardware that plays hard to get. In fact, my first steps with Linux (SuSE 6.1 in 1999) already were much easier than I feared they might be: it had an easy-to-use (albeit text-based) installer that gave me a usable system with a nice (for its time) and functional GUI (KDE 1.1). There was no need to fiddle with the command line (to get up and running at least) at all. It wasn't any more difficult to install than Windows NT 4.0, which I used as my productivity OS back then.

I had a go with Lubuntu 16.04 and it worked alright but it was a bit too slow on the Powerbook G4.
Then you have to look for even more lightweight programs (or an older version of Lubuntu, such as 12.04 remix). This blog might be a starting point, as the author has documented the experience of running current (at the time of writing) Linux on machines as slow as... a 100 MHz Pentium 1 with 16 MB RAM, which is quite impressive.

[...] if you're willing to understand that it is something different and not try to apply a mindset from a completely different OS, you shouldn't have a problem with it.
This. I've always stuck to that rule when trying to learn a different OS... or language, for that matter. Expecting things to work the way you're used to is just asking for frustration when they don't, even though it's compelling.
 
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Thank you, I had a look and you have a decent list there. Some of those options, I would never have thought about or considered using, or knew existed. I bookmarked your blog to come back to.

One of the options in @Doq ’s list was linux MintPPC, which for a little while in 2021, picked up some (discussion) traction on here. I never looked into whether that MintPPC developer continued with the work or not.

This reminds me of a 'debate' I once had with a lecturer.. the students were wanting to run heavy weight programs like GIS and CAD and the usual image editing and word processing all at the same time...but were complaining about the speed factor. Tried explaining that you cant just keep loading stuff on a donkey forever ...theres a limit.

“I’m so sad. ESRI, Adobe, and Microsoft, superchonky riders they are, were too heavy for my donkey to carry, and my donkey had to be sent to the glue factory after their back broke. ;_;

“We always knew ESRI was a bit ‘big-boned’, but it was Adobe who found refuge sitting in the basement, even on nice days as this, and watching TV all the time, eating a bunch of feature-creep ‘club sized’ bags of Cheetos for breakfast and lunch, followed by a ‘sensible dinner’ of cloud subscription services Hot Pockets. Microsoft took after Adobe, because Microsoft has always been about being a mockingbird and copying what others do.

“One day, right after we sent ol’ Donkey to the factory, I told them three kids to go out and do some walking exercise and to stop eating so much phoning home telemetry high-fructose corn syrup, but then they just threw their open bottles of Gatorade at me and said to ‘mind your own business, grandma’…”


It doesn't, it's an emotionless jambalaya of software.

Now hold it right there… the only “emotionless jambalaya” out there is when it comes from a Popeye’s chicken in a strip mall…

Maybe you meant “emotionless risotto”…
 
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Don't forget about the last member of the BSD Holy Trinity-- NetBSD, the BSD that will run on literally anything!
..just been reading the comments on distrowatch re Netbsd..seems like folks either hate it or love it.
Doq - was it much of a learning curve (hassle) to get it working on a PPC?

I see it has over 19,000 packages - geez!!
Where as Tiny Core (non PPC ) has 31.. No not thousand - 31 in total.
 
One of the options in @Doq ’s list was linux MintPPC, which for a little while in 2021, picked up some (discussion) traction on here. I never looked into whether that MintPPC developer continued with the work or not.



“I’m so sad. ESRI, Adobe, and Microsoft, superchonky riders they are, were too heavy for my donkey to carry, and my donkey had to be sent to the glue factory after their back broke. ;_;

“We always knew ESRI was always a bit ‘big-boned’, but it was Adobe who found refuge sitting in the basement, even on nice days as this, and watching TV all the time, eating a bunch of feature-creep ‘club sized’ bags of Cheetos for breakfast and lunch, followed by a ‘sensible dinner’ of cloud subscription services Hot Pockets. Microsoft took after Adobe, because Microsoft has always been about being a mockingbird and copying what others do.

“One day, right after we sent ol’ Donkey to the factory, I told them three kids to go out and do some walking exercise and to stop eating so much phoning home telemetry high-fructose corn syrup, but then they just threw their open bottles of Gatorade at me and said to ‘mind your own business, grandma’…”




Now hold it right there… the only “emotionless jambalaya” out there is when it comes from a Popeye’s chicken in the strip mall…

Maybe you meant “emotionless risotto”…
Off topic, I know...but may I suggest if you get a chance have a look at 'Foods that heal'. Found it on tubitv. Not your usual food diet whackos, but learned men. Gives health comparisons between older diets and modern. It's a long movie but ya can skip thru the cooking demos.
 
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Doq - was it much of a learning curve (hassle) to get it working on a PPC?
Okay, I haven't actually tried all of the options in the blog post, NetBSD included.
I ran OpenBSD for a while on the Companion back when I was still believing it didn't have Dead Bottom RAM Slot Syndrome and it was a different problem and OpenBSD was the only OS that ran on the corrupted memory bank. It was a weird time.
 
Are there any PowerPC Linux/Ubuntu/Alternative that's not Lubuntu (already tried 16.04, it's not bad but it's not for me) and Feinix doesn't load (I used a DVD R like they said to, and it doesn't want to work after I install it) and will run well on my PowerBook G4?

My specs are:

PowerbookG4 12"
1 GHz RAM
1.25 GB RAM

It runs decent (though not perfect) on Tiger and is a bit crap on Leopard (and I don't want to keep it on Leopard and go through all the commands/download things to improve the performance when Tiger runs much better), but I am looking a lightweight, modern alternative with all the basic programs (a fast browser that's not based around InterWeb PPC/ TFF G4/7450 Version- it runs too slow, but it works fine on my iMac G5), with a fan control app and a good range of apps.

Oh yeah, it has to be easy to install as well. I am a complete Linux noob. And if it can dual boot/not take up the whole partition, even better.

Any suggestions? Thank you.

FreeBSD, OpenBSD, NetBSD
 
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Ehh, i beg to differ a little here. There isn’t much i can’t do on my 12” PB running Void Linux.
@wicknix you are the shining exception :cool:

There probably is not much you can’t do on it because you will find a way to port software “X” to OS “Y” (or is it software “Y” to “OS X”?)

For a newcomer, i think my advice holds water, but not for the regulars here who just love tinkering and rolling up those sleeves to lose blocks of hours at a time, often neglecting family and friends, to the ol’ Mac habit.

“I’m not an addict. I can quit any time.” Said every junkie everywhere. ;)
 
Okay, I haven't actually tried all of the options in the blog post, NetBSD included.
I ran OpenBSD for a while on the Companion back when I was still believing it didn't have Dead Bottom RAM Slot Syndrome and it was a different problem and OpenBSD was the only OS that ran on the corrupted memory bank. It was a weird time.
..sounds like a nightmare!!
 
@wicknix you are the shining exception :cool:

There probably is not much you can’t do on it because you will find a way to port software “X” to OS “Y” (or is it software “Y” to “OS X”?)

For a newcomer, i think my advice holds water, but not for the regulars here who just love tinkering and rolling up those sleeves to lose blocks of hours at a time, often neglecting family and friends, to the ol’ Mac habit.

“I’m not an addict. I can quit any time.” Said every junkie everywhere. ;)
Linux is tinkering, but it also gives us the tools to fight the big corporations who have written us off as just a bunch of cast offs.

We love fighting dragons.
 
I have yet to permanently install Linux or BSD on a PowerPC Mac. In my opinion, Linux "desktop" distros are sadly worse than using Mac OS X. Others have mentioned Void, BSDs, and other "lightweight" Linux distros — I agree, I think that these are the best “alternatives” and they are the best desktop operating systems on other platforms. I recently installed Alpine on a x86_64 laptop because it seems similar to Void: lightweight, musl libc, no systemd.

I do really like how much Linux can be customized. I have a lot of work-rounds on Linux on x86_64 that I use to try to get back to the usability of Mac OS X:
  • xmodmap, setxkbmap or keyd in order to swap the Control and Alt keys on the PC keyboard. I just found and installed keyd yesterday. keyd can recognize different keyboards.
  • AutoKey to make every Alt key that I swapped work like a control key in the xfce4-terminal, and then make the Control keys do the right thing so that I can Copy and Paste just like Mac OS X Terminal.
  • Fiddle with Window Manager settings so that the Close box is on the left.
  • XFCE lets me customize the panel enough so that the clock format " %a %-I:%M %-p " and wifi and other icons look decent.
I've found nothing as yet to work-around:
  • having one and only one menu bar, at the top of the monitor or monitors of my choosing.
  • making applications remember window position and size hashed to monitor(s) layout.
  • changing the text editing keys that are hard-coded into X11.
  • a way to easily eliminate the Alt-key shortcuts in menus.
  • showing a Zoom button, although I've rarely seen zoom properly implemented anywhere but the Finder.
  • I could go on ad infinitum ...
 
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I have a lot of work-rounds on Linux on x86_64 that I use to try to get back to the usability of Mac OS X:
Honest question I myself don’t know the answer to: how much of it is “genuine” usability, and how much is being used to the way things work in OS X and wanting other GUIs to behave the same?

xmodmap, setxkbmap or keyd in order to swap the Control and Alt keys on the PC keyboard.
How does this improve usability if you’re not used to Apple keyboards?

Fiddle with Window Manager settings so that the Close box is on the left.
Does it matter whether window controls are on the left (e.g. OS X) or on the right (e.g. Windows), as long as they’re together? I hate the e.g. “Windows 3.x way” with Close on the left — and Minimise and Maximise on the right. What’s the deal with that?

a way to easily eliminate the Alt-key shortcuts in menus.
Are we talking about not displaying shortcuts, i.e. a purely cosmetic thing, or literally disabling them? In either case, how does this improve usability?
 
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Honest question I myself don’t know the answer to: how much of it is “genuine” usability, and how much is being used to the way things work in OS X and wanting other GUIs to behave the same?
I am used to the way things work in Mac OS X. I don't want the GUI to behave like a Windows PC. After decades of using Windows PCs, nothing about Windows PCs has stuck with me. I tried WIndows 11 on a friend's PC and it is an absolute dumpster fire. For example, typing python at the command line opens up Microsoft Store. I find Windows deplorable. Not to single out Microsoft as I have a lot of disdain for Apple, Google, Facebook, Amazon, Intel, and other big tech companies. I would love to leave both Mac OS X (or macos or whatever Apple calls it these days) and Windows in the dust and use an alternative desktop GUI that respects user choice and customization.

How does this improve usability if you’re not used to Apple keyboards?
Carpal-tunnel-speaking, stretching to use my left-pinky doesn't work for me. Mac OS X let's Windows PC users set these keys to how they want. There is no easy way on Windows and Linux to change these keys, but Linux does have a lot of options even if they are more difficult to set up.

the Close box is on the left. a way to easily eliminate the Alt-key shortcuts in menus.
Alt+space will open the Windows 3.x style menu on Windows and Linux! I would totally annihilate those Windows 3.x keyboard shortcuts. The weird Alt-key behavior with the menu bar is so annoying and yes cosmetically it is very unappealing.

Mac OS X is what I am used to but I believe that there could be way better interfaces that don't need to hearken back to the 1990s.
 
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I am used to the way things work in Mac OS X. I don't want the GUI to behave like a Windows PC.
OK, so usability in this context translates to "behave like Mac OS X".

I would love to leave both Mac OS X (or macos or whatever Apple calls it these days) and Windows in the dust and use an alternative desktop GUI that respects user choice and customization.
Is there nothing in the free software world that ticks the boxes for you?

The weird Alt-key behavior with the menu bar is so annoying and yes cosmetically it is very unappealing.
I've never given the display of shortcuts in menus a second thought, in fact, I appreciate it. Some shortcuts are unintuitive to me, e.g. on macOS Monterey (no idea when they were introduced):
  • Option-N creates a new Finder window. Fine, I totally get that.
  • Shift-Option-N creates a new folder. Uhhh, right.
  • Control-Option-N creates a new folder with the currently selected files or folders. Uhhh...
I'd never be able to remember the last two without having them displayed in menus.

I believe that there could be way better interfaces that don't need to hearken back to the 1990s.
Yikes. If I want to use something that looks-and-feels like Windows 98, I'll fire up Windows 98.
 
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OK, so usability in this context translates to "behave like Mac OS X".
You are correct. And ...
Is there nothing in the free software world that ticks the boxes for you?
Yes, the Linux desktop is working for me because I can customize a lot of things in Linux even if it isn't as easy as ticking boxes.
Keyboard shortcuts
You are using the Option key? Are we talking accessibility or usability? If you turn accessibility on, on a Mac, you can navigate menus with the keyboard. On Windows and Linux, this is always turned on with no way to hide it: the underscores indicating which Alt+key or key to press in menus although cursor keys would work just as well. For usability, there are the control-key shortcuts that are almost always the same as the Command-key on the Mac: select All, Bold, Copy, Desktop/Don't .../Duplicate, Find, find aGain, Hide, Italics, New, Open, Print, Quit, Refresh/Run/Reload, Save, Underline, (V) paste, (W) close, (X) cut, (Z) undo. The row of Undo, Cut, Copy, Paste keys are my muscle memory on all of these platforms.

20230414_110933.jpg


Even if those modifier keys are different or the modifier keys are in different places on the keyboard, the Ctrl/Command keyboard shortcuts are the same on Mac, Windows, and Linux.
Untitled.png
 
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You are using the Option key?
I meant the Command key. My bad.

If you turn on accessibility on, on a Mac, you can navigate menus with the keyboard. On Windows and Linux, this is always turned on with no way to hide it: the underscores indicating which Alt+key or key to press in menus althought cursor keys would work just as well.
Ah, that’s what you mean. At least on Windows XP and earlier versions, you can turn it off in Display Properties. I agree, those underscores aren’t pretty. I thought you meant the modifier key shortcuts displayed to the right of a menu option. Big misunderstanding on my part.
 
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This is why I think "being used to the way things work" may often be the best UI as long as there is an easy way to set it up or hide it altogether.

Picture 3.png
 
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Allow me to add an option to this discussion which might be entirely unhelpful, but I know it works, can be booted from a live CD, and it is very fast: Ubuntu 6.10 (http://old-releases.ubuntu.com/releases/edgy/). I used it the other day for nostalgia fun. You would have to do an enormous amount of work if you wanted a modern web browser (I don't), but other than that there are a good amount of out-of-the-box software packages you can grab as the old 6.10 repos (amazingly) are still online.

If this wasn't helpful at all...please disregard =).

EDIT: I should note the trackpad support is mediocre at best, as to be expected. Get your external mouse ready if you're going to use.
 
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