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Best PPC Mac for a beginner enthusiast?

bobsmith432

bobsmith432

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Sep 10, 2022
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To introduce myself, I'm 15 and love old computers and technology in general, and PowerPC has always been an incredibly interesting topic to me. I already have an Athlon 64 build I did myself to test the waters on building old PCs, and am planning to stick a Socket 370 Pentium III build in it's case with an overpowered and not era-appropriate SB Audigy 2 ZS card out of my love for MIDI and EAX effects XD

I really would love to get a glimpse of not only the Mac OS (classic and X) as I am mostly a Windows and Linux guy, and don't like the business practices of modern Apple, but also the PowerPC platform in general. Yes, I know they're big, power-hungry, loud machines that my spare ThinkPads will outperform, I don't there's anyone here who would doubt that either. I have a AM5 Ryzen build for gaming and tasks that require it's prowess. I would love a PowerPC Mac for hobbyist purposes as well as to see truly how much real world use I can get out of it. What would be a good beginner machine for me?
 
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If you just want to dink with the software, there are some pretty good emulators out there. I run classic MacOS pretty much exclusively in emulator now so that I can have all the stuff I like to do with my classic Mac working on my modern Mac. The nice thing about this is the cost to you is $0

Mac mini G4 and iBook G4 are both capable of running MacOS 9 and early OS X and are both reliable choices for a first computer that aren't overly expensive and give you the flexibility to run a lot of software. Of course the downside of an old laptop is that the battery might not work real well anymore and the Mac mini G4 is not the easiest machine to work on hardware wise (you have to pry the case apart with a putty knife to get inside it)

Prices on this old hardware have been creeping up both because collectors are becoming more interested in the machines and because age is starting to catch up with them and there aren't as many working without issue. If you do some shopping you might find a good price on an iMac G3 or iMac G4 though, both of which are iconic machines. The iMac G4 is easy to work on (uh relatively speaking) since the computer is housed in the base

My PowerPC computers on Leopard are able to do file sharing with my modern Macs so its as easy as drag and drop to pass files back and forth between them. My iBook is still able to do the majority of the things I ask a computer to do. Internet is really slow on it but it actually still works great for office apps (assuming I use contemporary to it office apps lol) and its fine with music playback.
 
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I second the Power Mac G4, specifically the Sawtooth and Gigabit Ethernet generations. A dual 500 MHz Gigabit Ethernet has the distinction of being the most powerful build to be capable of running every PowerPC OS X from Public Beta through 10.5 Leopard (unsupported but usable performance) as well as OS 9. It’s a fun one to tinker with.
 
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I guess it depends on if you want to run Classic MacOS or OS X, or both. My favorite, and I'm in the minority here would be an air-cooled Powermac G5 running 10.4.11 Tiger. It can't boot OS 9 natively, but can run just about any PowerPC app or game ever created and properly cleaned up and calibrated is a fast, reliable and quiet computer. Also, the G5s can often be had for less than the Powermac G4s, which seem to be attaining some collectable status now. Despite the bad reputation, I don't think the G5 is difficult to service and upgrade; provided it's not liquid cooled. Mac Mini G4 would also be a great choice. The 8-bit Guy (formerly iBook Guy) has some good videos on how to upgrade the G4 Mac Mini. Both can often be found on CL for under $50.
 
Welcome :)

I think if I had to pay for a PowerPC mac that ran both OSX and classic natively, I'd buy a 1.25 DP MDD. Since Im spending money on it, I'd get a matching Acrylic Cinema display and set of pro speakers and an extra recapped PSU because we all know how bad those are.

Now what I'd really do is I'd look daily on platforms like CL for free/cheap macs. I admit that PowerPC pickin's are slim nowadays but diligence brings luck. I've picked two free PPC macs this year so far and that is in a town of 250k. Knowing how much we will inevitably spend building up/repairing one of these elderly macs, I think it makes great sense to put in the effort to get one as cheaply/free as possible up front. Also, remembering how I had all the time in the world but how limited funds were for me when I was 15, this makes even more sense. Like a house, these boxes are money pits lol. Leverage emulators on that gaming box to experience the OSs until you connect with a cheap/free PowerPC box or understand what OS's you want and the best box for those are.

bkmoore773 said:
I guess it depends on if you want to run Classic MacOS or OS X, or both. My favorite, and I'm in the minority here would be an air-cooled Powermac G5 running 10.4.11 Tiger. It can't boot OS 9 natively, but can run just about any PowerPC app or game ever created and properly cleaned up and calibrated is a fast, reliable and quiet computer. Also, the G5s can often be had for less than the Powermac G4s, which seem to be attaining some collectable status now. Despite the bad reputation, I don't think the G5 is difficult to service and upgrade; provided it's not liquid cooled. Mac Mini G4 would also be a great choice. The 8-bit Guy (formerly iBook Guy) has some good videos on how to upgrade the G4 Mac Mini. Both can often be found on CL for under $50.
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I'm right there with you. I daily a dualcore Powermac G5 running Sorbet & Linux. This speaks well to @Algus 's comment & to the value of experiencing the OSs via emulation first. You will learn pretty quickly what software/OS you like/dislike and that understanding will point you to appropriate boxes/hardware to pursue.
 
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micahgartman said:
Power Macs are sweet but don't forget about PowerBooks. A Titanium PowerBook G4 can run OS 9, OS X and Classic. And it's sexy as heck 🥰
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Yeah, except the Titanium is highly sought after and probably not the best pick for someone starting out.

OP:
tl;dr: If you want to dabble in native OS 9, a Mac mini G4 with a patched build is the wave, but if you're fine with OS X and Classic, one of the Aluminium PowerBooks will do great.

I was in your position several years ago. Alternative architectures fascinate me endlessly, to the point that I find the entire x86 architecture unapologetically boring, and if I had the means and the money I'd have an x86-free lab powered by ARM, POWER, eventually RISC-V.

If your interest is as deep as mine, I'd also look into sourcing a 68K Mac of some flavour as well; though you may get even less out of it than a Power Mac, especially one with native OS 9 support.
 
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To elaborate for someone just getting into PowerPC Macs, they fall into three categories, and each category has their own enthusiast community and fan base. I apologize if this is already in the FAQ.

1. PowerPC Macs that can only run classic MacOS 7 through MacOS 9: These are the first PowerPC computers and as a rule of thumb, generally predate the first iMac. I wouldn't recommend any of these macs to a beginner for many reasons, such as SCSI/ ADB peripherials, leaky capacitors, non-standard memory, etc. These macs were mostly produced between 1994 and 1997.

2. PowerPC Macs that can natively boot either classic MacOS 8 / MacOS 9, or OS X: These are the Blue and White Powermac G3, Powermac G4, Powerbook G3 (Wallstreet and Up) and Powerbook G4 Titanium, clamshell iBooks, iMac G3, iMac G4, Mac Cube, and a few others I probably forgot about. Probably the most collectable PowerPC models are in this category; i.e. Titanium Powerbook G4, Mac Cube, and Powermac G4 and prime examples seem to be going up in price. These macs were mostly produced between 1998 and 2003.

3. PowerPC Macs that can only boot OS X: The Powermac G5, Aluminum Powerbook G4, G4 Mac Mini, and pretty much any mac introduced between 2003 up to the Intel transition in 2006. Support for classic MacOS is limited to Classic Mode in OS X 10.4 Tiger and earlier. These are the most modern PowerPC macs you can find, and are probably the easiest / least expensive to acquire. The only downside is you cannot natively boot OS 9.

It all comes down to what you want to do on your PowerPC mac. Do you want to be able to boot OS X and OS 9? Or are you happy with booting OS X only? What games do you want to play? Classic Mac games? Or more modern ones such as Halo? I'd recommend avoiding any mac from the first category (Pre-iMac), and look for examples from either the second or third ones, based on what you want to do with it.
 
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bkmoore773 said:
Also, the G5s can often be had for less than the Powermac G4s, which seem to be attaining some collectable status now. Despite the bad reputation, I don't think the G5 is difficult to service and upgrade; provided it's not liquid cooled.
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The liquid cooling units were such a pain. It was such a wrong direction.

Don't forget the last gen PowerMac G4 (MDD/FW800), the fan can be loud at times but it's quite easy to switching it out.
 
If I could only have one PowerPC Mac it would be a G4 tower, and specifically a pre-MDD tower.

I'm partial to the Quicksilver but there's a good argument to be made for the Sawtooth and/or Gigabit Ethernet.

If your goal is to tinker with both hardware and software, IMO these computers are the choice, and especially if you want to dual boot OS X and OS 9. I have one GigE box that has every PPC release version of OS X as well as Public Beta and the pre-release developer betas installed. That's not the only computer that could in theory do that, but it was just what I opted to do it on.

CPU upgrades are plentiful(even if not particular inexpensive these days) for this generation tower. You have access to a pretty wide range of Apple GPUs for OS 9 use, and access to a lot of flashed ones for OS X(this is where the Quicksilver and especially MDD show their advantage, as they can use a lot of cards that the earlier 2x computers can't).

Any PCI card that's compatible with older Macs will work in these. That's different from the PCI/PCI-X G5s where even finding a compatible cards can be fun(don't ask me about SCSI in a G5).
 
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bobsmith432 said:
To introduce myself, I'm 15 and love old computers and technology in general, and PowerPC has always been an incredibly interesting topic to me. I already have an Athlon 64 build I did myself to test the waters on building old PCs, and am planning to stick a Socket 370 Pentium III build in it's case with an overpowered and not era-appropriate SB Audigy 2 ZS card out of my love for MIDI and EAX effects XD

I really would love to get a glimpse of not only the Mac OS (classic and X) as I am mostly a Windows and Linux guy, and don't like the business practices of modern Apple, but also the PowerPC platform in general. Yes, I know they're big, power-hungry, loud machines that my spare ThinkPads will outperform, I don't there's anyone here who would doubt that either. I have a AM5 Ryzen build for gaming and tasks that require it's prowess. I would love a PowerPC Mac for hobbyist purposes as well as to see truly how much real world use I can get out of it. What would be a good beginner machine for me?
Click to expand...

If the speed/performance is a concern, Quad is the way to go. 2.3 DC are tolerable. I would assume that using anything single processor is a pain nowadays. Though PowerBooks are cute.
 
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bunnspecial said:
I have one GigE box that has every PPC release version of OS X as well as Public Beta and the pre-release developer betas installed.
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Off-topic, but may I ask which DPs are you running on the Gigabit, and if were there any modifications needed to get them to work?
 
Excluding G5 systems, which are the gold standard except for those evil liquid cooled ones (seriously, don't):

1. Mirrored Drive Door G4's are pretty good and are the last to officially boot OS 9. The power supplies can go all weird, but we do have you covered here with our stickies!

2. Digital Audio G4 towers. They're just like the next generation of G4 towers, but can be found for a steal. Mine still runs strong with the stock 733 MHz and GeForce 2.

3. Any G4 tower that can take 2 GB of RAM. OS X is a ram hog. Always has been.

Laptop-wise, I'd likely go for any G4 laptop with a Radeon card. Having a Radeon card to me would be the most important because that laptop would be running MorphOS instead of OS 9 or OS X.
 
I can't in good faith recommend MorphOS to a newcomer, completely because of the commercial price. If it was free software (not crippleware, but actual free software) then I'd recommend it, but that's a money sink that OP will never get back-- at least they can recoup on hardware by reselling it, but a MorphOS license is just sunk money. If OP wants to further explore alternative OSes, then MorphOS can re-enter the picture, but not until then.

It's a lot similar to the reasons why I'm not instantly recommending PMG5s. Those are very expensive-- unless you spend months or years looking for deals, or get lucky, especially if you keep it local-- for what is likely an occasional novelty machine. 'Tis why I still don't have a G5 here in the lab; I live in the middle of nowhere, making local listings a nonoption, and online pricing is not fun.
 
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MysticCow said:
2. Digital Audio G4 towers. They're just like the next generation of G4 towers, but can be found for a steal. Mine still runs strong with the stock 733 MHz and GeForce 2.
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I'm partial to these, not the least of which because one of them was my first G4.

In a lot of ways they're basically Quicksilvers in a graphite case. If you really get down to it there are more similarities than differences-they have a 133mhz system bus, have 3 RAM slots instead of 4, have a 4x AGP slot, have the same(either loved or maligned) audio input-output configuration, and the same arrangement of AGP and PCI slots as the Quicksilver.

The only thing they really lack is the additional CPU mounting post that supplies +12V to CPU cards, but can use Quicksilver CPU cards if you just run 12V to where this would attach on the card. They also don't have the permanently mounted case fan behind the CPU/heatsink. I'm honestly ashamed I don't know this, and can't check as mine are all in storage, but I THINK the higher speed/spec ones(dual 533 on up) do have a fan as part of the CPU/heatsink "unit."
 
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Doq said:
completely because of the commercial price.
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I couldn’t recommend Linux because they’ve always imo been slower than any Mac OS. Morph is simply the fastest there is for PPC.

And if I’m going to invest in a PPC laptop, I’m going to invest to run Morph. Just my opinion and we all know opinions are like butts. ;)

And I wouldn’t really say to get a G5 because of the price spike either. It’s why I said they were the “gold standard” and you’re going to pay some gold to get it. Lol
 
micahgartman said:
Power Macs are sweet but don't forget about PowerBooks. A Titanium PowerBook G4 can run OS 9, OS X and Classic. And it's sexy as heck 🥰
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But also expensive as hell! :D I've wanted one for a while, but I can't justify it, even in the auctions. They get pretty highly-priced on eBay, and even those missing hard drives end up nearly £160/$200. That's just too much for me.

I have an iBook G3 (that I got very cheap) that I need to revamp but it's currently running Mac OS 9.2 well for the most part, and it can run up to 10.4.11. It's 2001, I think, and in pretty good condition for its age. I also have an iBook G4 from 2003 on 10.4.11 that can run classic smoothly, so you might want to look into those two.

The reason I'm recommending iBooks/Powerbook G4s to start with is that they're very portable, and cheap to replace if you do happen to make a mistake when fixing one @bobsmith432 I have about four of them now (iBook G4 12" and three iBook G4 14") and they're generally a good machine.

The 1.07GHz runs the best out of them all. It was well looked after, and AFAIK, it doesn't appear to have many problems, if any at all. The iBook G4 1.33/1.42 can have issues, and so can the iBook G3s. I would recommend that to start off with (iBook 12" 1.07 GHz).

Powerbook G4s which are bought for a good price are also another option. I have one of each model, and the PBG4 12" is the most annoying and cumbersome to change the HDD out of, but it can be done with patience. The 15 and 17-inch appear to be a lot easier, and the TiBook (the OG PBG4 15") are the easiest to repair, but also the most fragile laptops, and are prone to hinge snapping/discoloration of the white paint.

You can get iMac/Powermac G4s for a reasonable price, and get them running well, and they are very easy to upgrade but I'd get an iBook to get a taste for things first of all. If you like it, then commit to a bigger device. I have an iMac G5 on my desk, and it runs very well for what I want to do. But I didn't get it as my first device.
 
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MysticCow said:
Excluding G5 systems, which are the gold standard except for those evil liquid cooled ones (seriously, don't):

1. Mirrored Drive Door G4's are pretty good and are the last to officially boot OS 9. The power supplies can go all weird, but we do have you covered here with our stickies!

2. Digital Audio G4 towers. They're just like the next generation of G4 towers, but can be found for a steal. Mine still runs strong with the stock 733 MHz and GeForce 2.

3. Any G4 tower that can take 2 GB of RAM. OS X is a ram hog. Always has been.

Laptop-wise, I'd likely go for any G4 laptop with a Radeon card. Having a Radeon card to me would be the most important because that laptop would be running MorphOS instead of OS 9 or OS X.
Click to expand...

Just a note that the FW800 MDDs do not boot OS9 natively.

Personally, if you're staying with 10.4 or older you can get away with a little less RAM, but for 10.5, definitely get all you can.

MysticCow said:
Don’t encourage OP to do stuff like bake his logic board. Any snow G3 iBook is lucky to be functioning. ;)
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Ones with the Rage 128 are fine, it's the Radeons that tend to bake.

VirtuallyInsane said:
The iBook G4 1.33/1.42 can have issues
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The main issue is the Hall effect sensor over the optical drive going bad and causing spontaneous sleeps (which sadly is often mistaken for GPU failure). Fortunately, disconnecting the sensor can be done by pulling the plug through the RAM door.

iBooks are such a pain to take apart that it's hard to recommend them.
 
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MysticCow said:
except for those evil liquid cooled ones (seriously, don't)
Click to expand...

Oh come on. There were some unreliable 2003 series ones, but 2005 ones are perfectly fine. (Any tech may break, that too almost 20 year old one, but there is nothing specifically unreliable with it.)
 
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