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Best PPC Mac for a beginner enthusiast?

I too recommend a PowerMac G4 tower. They're expandable and customizable.
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I've got a mid-2003 "Mirror Drive Door" model with the 1.25 GHz G4 processor, upgraded with 2 GB of RAM, 2 IDE hard drives (an 80 GB and a 200 GB), a new PRAM battery and a USB 2.0 PCI card, and despite the noisy fan (which is why these were often nicknamed the "Wind Tunnel"), it's lots of fun for running old Mac apps, including on Mac OS 9.2.2 and Mac OS X 10.4.11 (this particular G4 was the last Mac that could natively boot into Mac OS 9).

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I can even edit standard-definition video on it, even on Mac OS 9! (Here I'm running Adobe Premiere 6.5, the final PowerPC Mac-compatible version.) The rendering/exporting takes a lot longer than on later Macs, but it was a fun little experiment! See the finished video here...
 
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dandeco said:
I too recommend a PowerMac G4 tower. They're expandable and customizable.
View attachment 2228856
View attachment 2228857
I've got a mid-2003 "Mirror Drive Door" model with the 1.25 GHz G4 processor, upgraded with 2 GB of RAM, 2 IDE hard drives (an 80 GB and a 200 GB), a new PRAM battery and a USB 2.0 PCI card, and despite the noisy fan (which is why these were often nicknamed the "Wind Tunnel"), it's lots of fun for running old Mac apps, including on Mac OS 9.2.2 and Mac OS X 10.4.11 (this particular G4 was the last Mac that could natively boot into Mac OS 9).

View attachment 2228858
I can even edit standard-definition video on it, even on Mac OS 9! (Here I'm running Adobe Premiere 6.5, the final PowerPC Mac-compatible version.) The rendering/exporting takes a lot longer than on later Macs, but it was a fun little experiment! See the finished video here...
Click to expand...

One good thing about G4s is that they have CPU upgrade kits from Sonnet. No such luxury for G5s.
 
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What! No recommendations for an iMac G4......!!
To the OP: I have so many PPC models, but my all-time favourite has to be the iMac G4. Check out these interesting links to find out more.
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/g4-imac-resurrection.2283474/post-29579289

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/imac-g4-refurbishment.2223570/post-28219069

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/imac-g4-refurbishment.2223570/post-28219564

They are relatively easy to find - especially here in Europe. I would especially recommend looking for the 17" 1.25MHz USB2 model (the 2nd best imho). And if you should be lucky enough to find the 20" model, GRAB IT if your budget is sufficient - although due to their scarcity the prices are increasing.
The later 17" USB models are slightly easier to dismantle compared to earlier models. I find these iMacs very satisfying, even therapeutic to work on. Upgrading RAM is relatively easy (simplicity itself if one is just adding a 1GB Ram module inside the base cover). Opening these up further is not difficult, but be aware that the internal components are a magnet for dust bunnies, so internal cleaning is a must.
With maxed-out RAM to 2GB, and an SSD installed with OSX 10.5.9 Sorbet Leopard, these are a delight to use.
There are many other links and tips for refurbishing these, so if additional info is required, just ask away on this forum.

. .- - 1.25 GHz
1.25 GHz
 
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Have to agree with @CooperBox . From personal experience, if you want to get into PPC Macs, the first thing you should really do is just get a working cheap iMac, so you have an All in One experience, don't have to worry about displays or internal expansion. The iMac will teach you PPC MacOS, and help set your expectations for this hardware.

Then you could get into Towers and start experimenting with upgrades, SSDs, whatever. You could then bring that knowledge back to the iMac, if desired.
 
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I'm not sure if the OP is still hanging around. Hopefully he finds a PowerPC mac and enjoys it. I'm a little off topic, but I started wondering, why anyone would ever bother to run a PowerPC Mac. Not many PC users today are still rocking their Celerons and running Windows 2000, so why PowerPC?

At least for me, it comes down to it represents a time when Apple was a computer company that was focused on making "insanely great" software and hardware. Unfortunately, imho Apple has become a "service provider" and uses their platforms to push ads and services. For example on my G5, when I open iTunes it takes me right to my songs and playlists. On a modern Mac, open Apple Music for the first time, and you need to be Columbo to actually find your music. It takes you straight to Apple's subscription music service. On my G5, if I need more storage or RAM, simply add or swap. On a modern mac, Apple will sell you a premium subscription to iCloud. I could go on, but my point is I think it's good for young people / future computer experts, software people, and the next digital tycoons to see an alternate computing universe where computer companies focus on the user and on providing "insanely great" software, rather than using their platforms to push advertising and digital services. That's why I keep a G5 running, even though it makes zero sense as a computer in 2023.
 
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bkmoore773 said:
. On a modern Mac, open Apple Music for the first time, and you need to be Columbo to actually find your music. It takes you straight to Apple's subscription music service.
Click to expand...

It's literally an option to have it open to your music and hide Apple Music from the app, in both macOS and iOS. It's also just right on the sidebar.

Liking retro things is fine; justifying it with nonsense is not. ;)
 
I could get nostalgic for a Windows 2000 computer. That's the OS we had in the computer lab in High School. I never used it at home. Went from a Windows 98 machine to a Windows XP machine. Good old Pinball! There's some pretty good tech YouTubers still playing with old Windows hardware as well.

People just get nostalgic for what they had or still enjoy using it. If I had more money and space, I would absolutely lean more into retro computer collecting. As it is, I keep my collection small due to space concerns. I prefer my old Macs so I've just never bothered to invest in any old PC hardware.
 
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bkmoore773 said:
I'm not sure if the OP is still hanging around. Hopefully he finds a PowerPC mac and enjoys it. I'm a little off topic, but I started wondering, why anyone would ever bother to run a PowerPC Mac. Not many PC users today are still rocking their Celerons and running Windows 2000, so why PowerPC?

At least for me, it comes down to it represents a time when Apple was a computer company that was focused on making "insanely great" software and hardware. Unfortunately, imho Apple has become a "service provider" and uses their platforms to push ads and services. For example on my G5, when I open iTunes it takes me right to my songs and playlists. On a modern Mac, open Apple Music for the first time, and you need to be Columbo to actually find your music. It takes you straight to Apple's subscription music service. On my G5, if I need more storage or RAM, simply add or swap. On a modern mac, Apple will sell you a premium subscription to iCloud. I could go on, but my point is I think it's good for young people / future computer experts, software people, and the next digital tycoons to see an alternate computing universe where computer companies focus on the user and on providing "insanely great" software, rather than using their platforms to push advertising and digital services. That's why I keep a G5 running, even though it makes zero sense as a computer in 2023.
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Scary thought - Is it possible that Apple is servicing the modern user? Their stock prices would suggest yes they absolutely are. In their defense, they have done a fabulous job of evolving the market place to a subscription based one, ensuring long term viability. I mean that was the entire reason of shifting the OS from a paid upgrade to one of a free expected utility. Not only does it ensure better control of shorter support cycles thus faster hardware repurchases, but in a brilliant twist, has made the subscription services between their bread and butter. The hardware is just the price of admission.

Apple is full of smart business people who are into dominating markets that they effectively made and making loads of money from them. I can't even pretend that I am surprised really. I like retro computing because I can take a well constructed mac, slap linux on it or leverage a legacy patcher and get access to a reasonably modern user/macos experience and I dont have to pay to play. :)

Written on a 2008 macbookpro.
 
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Algus said:
I could get nostalgic for a Windows 2000 computer. That's the OS we had in the computer lab in High School. I never used it at home. Went from a Windows 98 machine to a Windows XP machine. Good old Pinball! There's some pretty good tech YouTubers still playing with old Windows hardware as well.

People just get nostalgic for what they had or still enjoy using it. If I had more money and space, I would absolutely lean more into retro computer collecting. As it is, I keep my collection small due to space concerns. I prefer my old Macs so I've just never bothered to invest in any old PC hardware.
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I have an old P2 and P3 box as part of my collection, both running W2kp - grabbed them for free off CL a couple years back. The P3 will become a cool sleeper build eventually. Mostly they just sit around and look like junk to everyone else, but to me, they are physical pathes back to fond memories when I was raging on n00bs via MSN Gamezone, Gamespy or the pubs in ShogoMAD, UT & Q2/3A :)

Great TOTC memories!
 
Certificate of Excellence said:
Scary thought - Is it possible that Apple is servicing the modern user? Their stock prices would suggest yes they absolutely are. In their defense, they have done a fabulous job of evolving the market place to a subscription based one, ensuring long term viability. I mean that was the entire reason of shifting the OS from a paid upgrade to one of a free expected utility. Not only does it ensure better control of shorter support cycles thus faster hardware repurchases, but in a brilliant twist, has made the subscription services between their bread and butter. The hardware is just the price of admission.

Apple is full of smart business people who are into dominating markets that they effectively made and making loads of money from them. I can't even pretend that I am surprised really. I like retro computing because I can take a well constructed mac, slap linux on it or leverage a legacy patcher and get access to a reasonably modern user/macos experience and I dont have to pay to play. :)

Written on a 2008 macbookpro.
Click to expand...
In hindsight, the older model may have been better in some ways. But when you lived through it, you may have been frustrated to have to buy a new OS every 2-3 years.
Now that the tech world has settled down and hardware is so good, you can very easily buy the cheapest base model Mac Mini, pay for zero subscriptions and use it comfortably for at least ten years. Apple might not like that approach, but it's perfectly viable.
 
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mectojic said:
In hindsight, the older model may have been better in some ways. But when you lived through it, you may have been frustrated to have to buy a new OS every 2-3 years.
Now that the tech world has settled down and hardware is so good, you can very easily buy the cheapest base model Mac Mini, pay for zero subscriptions and use it comfortably for at least ten years. Apple might not like that approach, but it's perfectly viable.
Click to expand...

Certainly agree with this however I'm not going to pay the tax to find out lol :D - at least not until AS M1/2 macs get down to around where Intel macs are now. I can see myself getting a Studio at that point but that is with the assumption that by then, AS will have some enthusiast developed, solid linux or macos patcher options. Anyways, Apple has done such a fine job of building a ecosystem around their brand & product that the 200+ million users world wide will happily invest in at least a portion of Apple's subscription ecosystem keeping Apple fat, happy & dominating what they do. Honestly regardless of how amazing the retro computing community is with their unsupported PowerPC and Intel mac shenanigans, I don't think Apple cares in any real capacity beyond say reproduction of copyrighted imagery, sounds etc.

Which for us I guess is a great thing :)
 
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bobsmith432 said:
To introduce myself, I'm 15 and love old computers and technology in general, and PowerPC has always been an incredibly interesting topic to me. I already have an Athlon 64 build I did myself to test the waters on building old PCs, and am planning to stick a Socket 370 Pentium III build in it's case with an overpowered and not era-appropriate SB Audigy 2 ZS card out of my love for MIDI and EAX effects XD

I really would love to get a glimpse of not only the Mac OS (classic and X) as I am mostly a Windows and Linux guy, and don't like the business practices of modern Apple, but also the PowerPC platform in general. Yes, I know they're big, power-hungry, loud machines that my spare ThinkPads will outperform, I don't there's anyone here who would doubt that either. I have a AM5 Ryzen build for gaming and tasks that require it's prowess. I would love a PowerPC Mac for hobbyist purposes as well as to see truly how much real world use I can get out of it. What would be a good beginner machine for me?
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If you are in the US and pay shipping, I will send you a iBook G3 snow 500MHZ. It is basically the same specs as the legendary G3 Pismo.

I'm always glad to see young people take interest in old tech and things that I loved from my childhood.
 
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minik said:
The liquid cooling units were such a pain. It was such a wrong direction.
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I gave up using my G5 Quad (liquid cooled) as a primary Mac in 2019. So…four years now. I won't say that I agree with your statement. My Quad was just fine and had a good university life before coming to me in early 2017 (thanks @bunnspecial).

However, on this side of retirement of my primary PowerPC Macs, I will say this. There are a couple of users in this forum that have since proven twice that the Quad G5 can be aircooled and run just fine under a full load with peripherals attached. There is a thread in this subforum that is all about converting the Quad to air cooling. Turns out, all you really need is a large enough heat sink.

But Apple went with liquid cooling. Either they didn't have the time to make aircooling work or they just didn't feel like it. Either way, they could have done it, but didn't.

And that in itself is an indictment on Apple I think. The decline in Apple products workmanship and quality began right around the launch of the 2006 Intel Macs. It may be they were starting to cut corners earlier than that. That's a theory of course and I don't expect anyone to agree, but again, it has been proven that the Quad could have been aircooled.
 
eyoungren said:
And that in itself is an indictment on Apple I think. The decline in Apple products workmanship and quality began right around the launch of the 2006 Intel Macs. It may be they were starting to cut corners earlier than that. That's a theory of course and I don't expect anyone to agree, but again, it has been proven that the Quad could have been aircooled.
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That's a bit of a hard sell, you'll need to explain that in more depth. So you're saying that the 1998-2006 era had the best craftsmanship?
I can agree that many Intel Mac had problems, but I don't think build quality was one of them. There must be a number of counterexamples to your claim (e.g. the noise of the MDD could've been fixed, but wasn't).
 
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mectojic said:
That's a bit of a hard sell, you'll need to explain that in more depth. So you're saying that the 1998-2006 era had the best craftsmanship?
I can agree that many Intel Mac had problems, but I don't think build quality was one of them. There must be a number of counterexamples to your claim (e.g. the noise of the MDD could've been fixed, but wasn't).
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Several years back I was still using my PowerPC Macs and more than once I made the comment that the Intel Macs had no 'soul'. At the time I was employed at a previous job and I said that because at that job I was using a 2010 MacPro. That Mac was a good Mac, efficient and capable. But it did not 'feel' the same as my PowerPC Macs. I didn't get a 'homey, personable' type feel from it.

Some of the conversations then were also about how much better the PowerPC Macs seemed to have been built than the early Intels. Some users here mentioned their hardware issues. That isn't to say that PowerPC didn't have it's own problems but the feeling in general (myself included) was that Apple built Macs before 2006 better. Pretty much the confirmation to me on that was when Apple started limiting self-repair by gluing or soldering stuff down later on.

Although it's not an early Intel Mac, my 2015 work MBP has given me no end of frustrations. It functions, but it generally likes to just ignore what I instruct it to do. I don't know why that is, but as far as I'm concerned it's the worst Mac I've ever had the displeasure to use for a work computer. And unlike the 2012 MBPs, Apple limited it to how many displays it could operate at once.

I was just combining the fact that you can aircool a Quad G5 with this. I'm speculating, I have no proof. But I find it hard to believe Apple didn't realize they could slap on a bigger heat sink and call it a day instead of using an LCS. Why didn't they? Only they know.

As to the Windtunnel - yeah, Apple could have fixed that too. My guess is that they'd switched their attention to the G5 by that point.
 
bunnspecial said:
If I could only have one PowerPC Mac it would be a G4 tower, and specifically a pre-MDD tower.
Click to expand...

MysticCow said:
2. Digital Audio G4 towers. They're just like the next generation of G4 towers, but can be found for a steal. Mine still runs strong with the stock 733 MHz and GeForce 2.
Click to expand...
My Digital Audio graphite G4 tower (533 MHz) was an amazing machine. I should say "is" because I still have it, along with the Cinema Display. Great Mac, a classic.
 
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eyoungren said:
I gave up using my G5 Quad (liquid cooled) as a primary Mac in 2019. So…four years now. I won't say that I agree with your statement. My Quad was just fine and had a good university life before coming to me in early 2017 (thanks @bunnspecial).

However, on this side of retirement of my primary PowerPC Macs, I will say this. There are a couple of users in this forum that have since proven twice that the Quad G5 can be aircooled and run just fine under a full load with peripherals attached. There is a thread in this subforum that is all about converting the Quad to air cooling. Turns out, all you really need is a large enough heat sink.

But Apple went with liquid cooling. Either they didn't have the time to make aircooling work or they just didn't feel like it. Either way, they could have done it, but didn't.

And that in itself is an indictment on Apple I think. The decline in Apple products workmanship and quality began right around the launch of the 2006 Intel Macs. It may be they were starting to cut corners earlier than that. That's a theory of course and I don't expect anyone to agree, but again, it has been proven that the Quad could have been aircooled.
Click to expand...
In my previous job, we had a lab full of Delphi Automotive-based liquid cooling G5. They were on 24-7 in a not so ventilated environment. Some ended up leaking and rust inside the bottom of the tower. Didn't Apple put out an exchange program on selected LC G5?
 
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