Best setup for a new Apple TV, 4K TV and 2.0 Receiver?

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

I'm in the process of replacing my TV set up, and get a 4K TV.

Currently I have a 42" Toshiba 1080 TV, Apple TV 4 HD and Denon CEOL Piccolo, and I'm planning to replace all of them.

Now, technology has definitively moved forward since I got any of the stuff above (and especially since I got the TV i 2009), so I'm a bit uncertain what my best options are.

To get the sound from the Apple TV out, I'm currently using Airplay to the Piccolo, which works OK (lip sync is fine, but there's a picture and sound delay, which is annoying when pausing/restarting), so I want to have wired set up from now on.

I've looked into a number of receivers, and some have a single HDMI (Arc) and some others have (multiple) HDMI in and a single HDMI (Arc) out.

With my - somewhat limited understanding of HDMI with Arc - this gives me two options, for connecting the Apple TV, TV and Receiver:

1) Apple TV to a HDMI in on the Receiver, then from the HDMI out on the Receiver to the TV.

2) Apple TV to (any) HDMI on the TV, then from the TV HDMI (Arc) to the Receiver.

Intuitively I think option 1 is the way to go, but will option 2 also give me "perfect" picture/sound sync?

Examples of receivers I've looked at supporting the two options:

1) Denon DRA-800H, Marantz NR1200, and Onkyo TX L-20D
2) NAD D 3045, Harman Kardon Citation Amp, and (the way too expensive) NAD M10

 

[hobowankenobi]

I just did an upgrade that was similar. Happy with everything. I already had a 4th Gend ATV, so kept that.

TV: Sony XBR-43X800H (mainly because of the IPS panel for better off-axis color)
Speakers: Yamaha YAS-109 (limited space, subwoofer out for a powered Infinity sub)

The Sony is great, and the off-axis color is really good compared to most other brands I checked out. Nice that it as AirPlay 2 and other perks...but I don't use most of it, including the (good) built-in OS.

The Yamaha is one of the few soundbars I could find for a lowish price that had sub-out, DTX, clear voice, and more. It too has features I don't use like Alexa.

Most importantly, One HDMI cable from ATV to TV, and one HDMI Arc cable from TV to Soundbar. Everything works, and the sound is good. Probably better for TV/movie/dialog...than for music/Stereo. But, most importantly (to me), The ATV remote controls everything. That was a nice surprise. I can use the TV remote and the soundbar remote to make settings adjustments....but for power and volume, ATV remote does it. Very slick, and better than I expected.

This is my first HDMI Arc setup, so I can't say if all HDMI Arc gear does this so well, and easily. I honestly don't know if the TV and soundbar automatically learned the IR signals from the ATV remote, or if the ATV remote commands are transmitted via the Arc protocol. But it was well worth the cost.

Ironically, a lot of TV and audio products have overkill/redundant features if used with an ATV (Airplay 2, voice assistant, Bluetooth, etc). I went ahead and "over bought" these features, as I wanted the sound and picture quality that comes bundled with these nicer features.

As to the sync issue...hard to say. I see a bit occasionally but it seems very minor. I watching streaming content, so I expect when any lag appears, that It is likey a bandwidth issue.

 

[mekump]

Have you considered a soundbar with multiple HDMI inputs such as the Cambridge Audio TVB2. That way your devices would connect to the soundbar via HDMI and the soundbar would connect to a tv via HDMI and you wouldn’t have to worry about ARC.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Have you considered a soundbar with multiple HDMI inputs such as the Cambridge Audio TVB2. That way your devices would connect to the soundbar via HDMI and the soundbar would connect to a tv via HDMI and you wouldn’t have to worry about ARC.

I have, but I prefer a set up with an amp (receiver) and a couple of speakers.

I use the same for playing music via Airplay from my Mac. I know some soundbars support Airplay, too, but I still think I get more "ompfh" from a more traditional set up with a nice 2.0 amp + a couple of decent speakers.

Also, I don't plan to mount the new TV on the wall (my current isn't), and aesthetically I don't think I'll manage to get a soundbar to fit...

 

[Weaselboy]

Home Page

Sound & Vision covers everything in consumer electronics. Flat panel HDTV, 4K Ultra, video projectors, surround sound, speakers, and more.

www.soundandvision.com

Check this sites "top picks" in each category for good suggestions. I have always found the author to give sound (heh heh) advice.

He lists that Denon receiver you mentioned as a good choice in that price range.

I would run all HDMI into the receiver, then one HDMI to the TV. Not all setups will transfer all sound formats (like ATMOS) over Arc, so I would not use it if you don't need to.

If you can afford it, get at OLED TV. The black levels are just so much better than anything else out there. Also if off angle viewing matters to you, OLED is very good in that respect. I have a LG OLED I am very happy with. Hard to beat the LG OLED CX models and the prices have come way down.

LG OLED55CXPUA Alexa Built-In CX 55" 4K Smart OLED TV (2020)

LG OLED TV CX redefines everything you see. Once you’ve seen LG OLED TV, other TVs pale in comparison. OLED is a difference-maker for movies, shows, sports and gaming. From the gridiron to the iron throne, no detail goes unseen. And only OLED pixels emit their own light for perfect black, intense...

www.amazon.com

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

@Weaselboy That Denon DRA-800H is my favourite, so far.

But - ideally - I'd like a receiver with a smaller from factor (like my current Denon CEOL Piccolo), specifically width < 37cm, but all the alternatives with (multiple) HDMIs in and one out, are the "standard" ±44cm. That's why I've started checking out a few options with "only" the one HDMI Arc connection.

That makes the NAD M10 and even more so the (slightly less expensive) Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 contenders, even at 4 and 3 times the price of the Denon, respectivly.

Also, I have my eye on the LG 65OLEDCX, but I'm not 100% sure I can justify getting that at 3 x the price of a LG 65UN71 or 65UN73 (or similar), or at 2 x the price of a LG 65UN81 or the "dark horse" TCL 65QLED800 (or similar).

I can see myself ending up with one of the too expensive receivers and that too expensive CX, though.

 

[Weaselboy]

I can see myself ending up with one of the too expensive receivers and that too expensive CX, though.

Hey you only live once!

 

[pmiles]

LOL or until the next CES Expo...

 

[Weaselboy]

LOL or until the next CES Expo...

Yeah you can go broke chasing new features. HDMI 2.1 is the big thing now, but I cannot justify replacing a four year old receiver and a two year old OLED TV.

 

[retta283]

With my eye condition, 4K is not appreciable on a TV at all. I only can notice drastic improvements in contrast or black levels on TVs, resolution is moot. I have a nice 1080 flat that I got 15 years ago. Color wise I'm sure anything newer would blow it out of the water but my usage of it is very little these days so it's not worth the upgrade. I also notice this stupid trend on TVs to make the stands these little V shaped pieces on the edges instead of a center stand, which artificially limits my screen size without buying a new cabinet. Can't mount here without get fined out the wazoo. Absurd.

Anyway, to actually contribute to the discussion, I cannot speak with certainty as I don't own the Arc but logic compels me to say that Option 1 is the safe route. You want the absolute lowest bandwidth drain from daisy-chain connections as you can get. As few adapters/converters in your setup as possible. I had a system to take an ancient type of sub connector to my home theatre, and the sound delay was almost a second from the picture. Absolutely abysmal. Now, it's possible that there is technically delay in option one too, but since the sound and picture are in sync it's not noticeable.

I will always recommend Marantz product. I've owned various amplifiers and other equipment from them for decades and have nothing but good words. Most recently I got another amplifier in 2013? or so and it's running well with my Infinity speakers.

 

[Weaselboy]

I will always recommend Marantz product.

I agree Marantz makes some nice gear. Denon and Marantz were both bought by some company a few years back and for most of their models there is a twin equivalent of the other brand.

AVS Forum

A forum community dedicated to home theater owners and enthusiasts. Come join the discussion about home audio/video, TVs, projectors, screens, receivers, speakers, projects, DIY’s, product reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more!

www.avsforum.com

@Mitthrawnuruodo AVS forums is good resource also if you have things narrowed down to some specific models. You can find a users thread there for about anything to get owner feedback. Fair warning though, it can be a bit of information overload.

 

[gecko579]

I second the Marantz (got a deep discounted AVR 7.1 on eBay for $200, luckily it was in perfect working order as described) and small speakers via option 1 as I like to control everything from the receiver side. That said I’m using the (PITA) AppleTV remote to control AVR volume (CEC or whatever Marantz/Samsung call HDMI functional control).

It’s occasionally wonky but when it works I can turn on all components (ATV, Marantz, TV), access streaming, adjust volume and turn off...pretty slick.

YMMV but it feels good to be frugal but get 90% of the functionality of current gen (eg no Atmos on the AVR but I did get the first networked—ethernet, but not WiFI—version so that’s the sweet spot).

Stay a few gens behind, get the best bang for the buck.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Fair warning though, it can be a bit of information overload.

I poked around a bit, and I get what you mean.

Found another contender in the "too expencive" receiver category, too: Naim Uniti Atom. Might see what the AVS people say about that... (didn't find too much on that Lyngdorf I crave...)

Stay a few gens behind, get the best bang for the buck.

That was the idea, get a relatively cheap 2019 (or early 2020) TV now that the prices drop for the 2021 models, and get a tried and tested mid priced receiver.

So, I might still end up with a LG 65UN71 and the Denon DRA-800H or Marantz NR1200, but I am tempted by that LG 65OLEDCX and Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 combo at about 3 x my original budget...

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Found another contender in the "too expencive" receiver category, too: Naim Uniti Atom. Might see what the AVS people say about that... (didn't find too much on that Lyngdorf I crave...)

First comment I found on the Naim NAD M10: "$2500 and it doesn't come with a remote?"

Seems like some people from these forums live over there, too...

 

[HDFan]

Denon DRA-800H or Marantz NR1200

Not sure why you would want to pay ~$500 (Amazon price) for an almost 4 year old 800H when you could get a Yamaha RX-4VA for $439 which is state of the art (HDMI 2.1 support coming) and will support eArc. Or for a bit more the Denon AVR-S960H ($649) which is similarly state of the art. You only need to setup with 2 speakers. If you decide later you want to expand things they will support it.

Once you watch an OLED in your own home theater you will never be happy with anything else.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Not sure why you would want to pay ~$500 (Amazon price) for an almost 4 year old 800H when you could get a Yamaha RX-4VA for $439 which is state of the art (HDMI 2.1 support coming) and will support eArc. Or for a bit more the Denon AVR-S960H ($649) which is similarly state of the art. You only need to setup with 2 speakers. If you decide later you want to expand things they will support it.

Once you watch an OLED in your own home theater you will never be happy with anything else.

I would love to get the Denon DRA-800H for $500, with conversion rates and Norwegian VAT its well over USD 800 here...

But seriously, I have spcifically been looking for 2.0 receivers, and not 5.1, 7.2, [add more numbers here], because we have a relatively small living room, and I prefer to keep it simple. (Had a 5.1 - or rather 5.0 - system years ago, driven by a nice enough Onkyo receiver, but never really enjoyed it: Meaningless for music, and didn't really give me that much extra with movies.)

So, I'd rather have the DRA-800H over the AVR-S960H for that reason alone, but another thing is that the AVR-S960H looks like its at least as big as the DRA-800H (if not even bulkier), and I'm trying to look for something with a bit smaller form factor (with max 37 cm width), but the same power as the DRA-800H.

That Yamaha RX-4VA - besides having "too many channels" - haven't been released here in Norway (at least I cannot find it for sale anywhere), so this is the first I see of that.

So, even if that expencive Lyngdorf TDAI-1120 looks very tempting, something like the Bluesound POWERNODE 2i or the Harman Kardon Citation Amp looks like the more sensible choices, at the moment...


Even the "cheapest" TV on my shortlist, the LG 65UN7100, is so much better than out current TV, that anything will be a wast improvment. However, I do suspect that I'm sold if I go see that OLED next to the LED alternatives I originally set up my budget for... so I plan to avoid doing that.

Also, I don't think I'll go 8K the next decade or so, and thus I don't really need a receiver with HDMI 2.1 (though I don't say "no thanks" if it got it, it's just not on my must-have list), so if Denon comes out with a nice Piccolo replacement, with HDMI, that would be my preferred receiver.

 

[HDFan]

But seriously, I have spcifically been looking for 2.0 receivers, and not 5.1, 7.2, [add more numbers here], because we have a relatively small living room, and I prefer to keep it simple.

You don't have to use all of the channels. Just set it up as a 2.0. Going with older technology means you may not get things like airplay, apps such as roon or tidal, etc. It is just as simple as your proposed receiver, other than the setup.

Also, I don't think I'll go 8K the next decade or so, and thus I don't really need a receiver with HDMI 2.1

HDMI 2.1 is a lot more than 8K. Picture quality, gamers features, and eArc allows you to route un-crippled sound to your receiver from a television with eArc.

Do understand the size considerations and if that is your most important priority then it make sense. Personally I always over-buy so I can make the purchase last longer. My 10 year old receiver still handles most things just fine, but am replacing it to handle some of the new stuff. I never know what feature I don't use now might be useful in the future.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

You don't have to use all of the channels. Just set it up as a 2.0. Going with older technology means you may not get things like airplay, apps such as roon or tidal, etc. It is just as simple as your proposed receiver, other than the setup.

All the receivers I've been looking at and listed here, should support Airplay 2. That is absolutely one of my must-haves.

HDMI 2.1 is a lot more than 8K. Picture quality, gamers features, and eArc allows you to route un-crippled sound to your receiver from a television with eArc.

I know that, and even if I'm not a gamer either, I'll take HDMI 2.1 over 2.0 if I it's available, it's just not on my priority list. Also, I would prefer if the new TV and receiver both support eArc over "regular" Arc, but, again, that's not a must-have.

Edit: I do however understand it may help with lip sync, and thus it may be something that could make a difference on my final decision.

Do understand the size considerations and if that is your most important priority then it make sense. Personally I always over-buy so I can make the purchase last longer. My 10 year old receiver still handles most things just fine, but am replacing it to handle some of the new stuff. I never know what feature I don't use now might be useful in the future.

Size isn't the most important, but it is a factor. More important is that the new system is good for music, and better/easier with the TV than the current setup.

Oh, and I know everything about overbuying; and even if I was setting out to get a cheap but decent LED TV and a (relatively) reasonable receiver with HDMI to replace my ageing setup, it wouldn't be a big surprise if I lose any level of self control, go nuts and get the OLED + Lyngdorf or NAD M10 combo, or similar, and blow the budget 3 times over...

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Hmm...The LG 65NANO90 just went on sale today. By a lot.

That makes it a very tempting "compromise" between the CX and the LEDs.

Anyone have any experience with the LG's NANO90 series?

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

After some research (and in part thanks to those replying here) I've managed to, basically, narrow it down to three options:

The Cheap one:
LG 65UN7100 with a Sonos Amp.

The Compromise:
LG 65NANO90 with a Bluesound POWERNODE 2i (HDMI).

The Luxury option that i crave:
LG OLED65CX with a Lyngdorf TDAI-1120.

I'm leaning towards the Compromise one, as the price of the Luxury option is more than twice as much.

Any thoughts?

 

[Weaselboy]

That LG set you have in your compromise list looks like it uses LGs version of full array local dimming (FALD), so they use lots of small lights behind the screen to control the picture. Much better tech than a normal LCD with just a couple big LCD lights coming in from the sides. When FALD sets first came out, I bought a set by Sharp that used FALD. Black levels and blooming from backlighting is far better than LCD sets. When OLED prices came down, I upgraded to an LG OLED. For the money, a FALD set is a very close second to OLED and a good option IMO.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

That LG set you have in your compromise list looks like it uses LGs version of full array local dimming (FALD), so they use lots of small lights behind the screen to control the picture. Much better tech than a normal LCD with just a couple big LCD lights coming in from the sides. When FALD sets first came out, I bought a set by Sharp that used FALD. Black levels and blooming from backlighting is far better than LCD sets. When OLED prices came down, I upgraded to an LG OLED. For the money, a FALD set is a very close second to OLED and a good option IMO.

It's one of the high end-ish Nanos, yes. And should have full FALD (is that redundant?), and also sports a HDMI 2.1 with eArc, making it nice for connecting to a good (decent) amp.

I was thinking the quality was so much better than my current Toshiba, or the UN71 (or similar), that it would be more than good enough for us (growing up with PAL broadcasts and VHS, anything modern is still mind-blowingly good compared to that), and that the OLED is almost overkill.

 

[Mitthrawnuruodo]

Well, so much for compromising...

I just ordered the LG OLED65CX.

The backorder on the NANO was just terrible, with delivery in March, so I went for the OLED. (Only annoyance: I had a delivery window this week, but due to some hesitation on my part, when I finally pulled the trigger that was moved to next week.) So, come Tuesday I'm getting a new TV.

Now... still haven't decided between the Lyngdorf and the Bluesound. I'm kind of thinking the Lyngdorf is overkill for my use, and the Bluesound is more than good enough. (But just a few days ago I basically said the same thing about the OLED vs the NANO, so...)

 

[Weaselboy]

I just ordered the LG OLED65CX.

LOL... you caved!!

I think you will really like it.

LG CX OLED Calibration Settings

We used the following calibration settings to review the LG 55" CX (OLED55CX), and we expect them to be valid for the 48" model (OLED48CX), 65" model (OLED65CX), and the 77" model (OLED77CX).

www.rtings.com

Try out these calibration settings from Rtings.

 

[G5isAlive]

Well, so much for compromising...

I just ordered the LG OLED65CX.

The backorder on the NANO was just terrible, with delivery in March, so I went for the OLED. (Only annoyance: I had a delivery window this week, but due to some hesitation on my part, when I finally pulled the trigger that was moved to next week.) So, come Tuesday I'm getting a new TV.

Now... still haven't decided between the Lyngdorf and the Bluesound. I'm kind of thinking the Lyngdorf is overkill for my use, and the Bluesound is more than good enough. (But just a few days ago I basically said the same thing about the OLED vs the NANO, so...)

I was attracted to your thread because I have a similar question, only I backed into it. I started by getting recently the LG OLED77CX and now want to upgrade my sound system.

You are going to love the CX. I have always had a decent TV, but I was blown away when I got it home. It was almost like seeing TV for the same time. It's just that good. I usually have a moment of buyer's remorse, but not with this set. Besides the blacks are really black, my wife likes that you can view it off center (from the kitchen) without it looking washed out like LED's do.

Anyway, congrats. You will be glad you did this. Thanks for the thread, I got some useful links out of it.