MP 1,1-5,1 Best way to virtualise OS X from within macOS

[pullman]

Hello everyone

The kind help I received just below in this thread pointed me to virtualisation as a possible solution to my issue. Basically I am looking for a way to run an old scanner PPC app called Nikon Scan 4 which requires Rosetta.

Many years ago I managed to get Nikon Scan 4 to run on my cMP3,1 under OS X Leopard. I still use this Mac today with Monterey thanks to OCLP so now I'm looking for the best way to get either Leopard or Snow Leopard to run virtually so I can use Nikon Scan again.

Which virtualisation solution would work the best? For instance, I have read that Virtualbox will limit screen resolution. Will that happen on all VM solutions? Ideally I'd like to be able to run at my normal "full HD" resolution.

Thank you for your help
Philip

 

[mattspace]

Hello everyone

The kind help I received just below in this thread pointed me to virtualisation as a possible solution to my issue. Basically I am looking for a way to run an old scanner PPC app called Nikon Scan 4 which requires Rosetta.

Many years ago I managed to get Nikon Scan 4 to run on my cMP3,1 under OS X Leopard. I still use this Mac today with Monterey thanks to OCLP so now I'm looking for the best way to get either Leopard or Snow Leopard to run virtually so I can use Nikon Scan again.

Which virtualisation solution would work the best? For instance, I have read that Virtualbox will limit screen resolution. Will that happen on all VM solutions? Ideally I'd like to be able to run at my normal "full HD" resolution.

Thank you for your help
Philip

Your best bet is probably VMWare to virtualise Intel macOS on Intel macOS. VirtualBox is buggy janktastic, and its user community is pretty much worthless for getting help to run it on actual Apple hardware / under macOS. In fact that's the larger problem in general, the hackintosh crowd have basically ruined knowledge about this, because it's almost impossible to find search results that aren't based on PC / Windows as the host, or aren't for Apple Silicon only solutions.

VMWare's user forums are also the worst thing under the sun since Qualcomm Broadcom infected the company, going forward, last I checked, virtualising Intel macOS on Intel macOS is a deprecated feature. You might find getting a version a few point releases back works OK. I have Fusion 13.5.2 and it seems to be ok running Snow Leopard Server (no hardware acceleration though, so things like photoshop filters / layer effects etc don't render).

If you want to try running an old PowerPC MacOS version, you might be able to do it with QEMU:

Running Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X 10.0 - 10.4 on Apple Silicon (M1) & Intel via QEMU

The info this guide is valid but I written a new one about QEMU screamer which emulates Mac OS 9 - OS X 10.14 with sound.

blog.greggant.com

I haven't tried this myself, but I'd be very interested to see if you can get it working.

 

[pullman]

Thank you very much for replying and sharing all this info, including QEMU which I hadn't seen in my searches.

Good thinking about going a few releases back to try VMWare. Perhaps I should try one from whenever Monterey was released to increase compatibility.

Does your install of Snow Leopard Server run at full resolution?

As for hardware acceleration I don't think that is necessary for scanning. For editing I boot into Mojave to use Photoshop..

Your best bet is probably VMWare to virtualise Intel macOS on Intel macOS. VirtualBox is buggy janktastic, and its user community is pretty much worthless for getting help to run it on actual Apple hardware / under macOS. In fact that's the larger problem in general, the hackintosh crowd have basically ruined knowledge about this, because it's almost impossible to find search results that aren't based on PC / Windows as the host, or aren't for Apple Silicon only solutions.

VMWare's user forums are also the worst thing under the sun since Qualcomm infected the company, going forward, last I checked, virtualising Intel macOS on Intel macOS is a deprecated feature. You might find getting a version a few point releases back works OK. I have Fusion 13.5.2 and it seems to be ok running Snow Leopard Server (no hardware acceleration though, so things like photoshop filters / layer effects etc don't render).

If you want to try running an old PowerPC MacOS version, you might be able to do it with QEMU:

Running Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X 10.0 - 10.4 on Apple Silicon (M1) & Intel via QEMU

The info this guide is valid but I written a new one about QEMU screamer which emulates Mac OS 9 - OS X 10.14 with sound.

blog.greggant.com

I haven't tried this myself, but I'd be very interested to see if you can get it working.

 

[mattspace]

Thank you very much for replying and sharing all this info, including QEMU which I hadn't seen in my searches.

I'd look for an explanation that doesn't involve using Homebrew, unless you're already using it competently.

Good thinking about going a few releases back to try VMWare. Perhaps I should try one from whenever Monterey was released to increase compatibility.

What is your target guest OS?

Does your install of Snow Leopard Server run at full resolution?

Yeah, I think the VMWare Tools installed to the guest OS are part of what makes that work, but I can set the window to whatever size I like, and the resolution alters to suit.

 

[Bigwaff]

Thank you very much for replying and sharing all this info, including QEMU which I hadn't seen in my searches.

Tiger running in UTM on Sonoma on a 2018 Mac mini viewed through Screen Sharing on M1 Max MBP running Sequoia.

 

[mattspace]

Tiger running in UTM on Sonoma on a 2018 Mac mini viewed through Screen Sharing on M1 Max MBP running Sequoia.
View attachment 2611719

I might ask you a few "help me understand the basics" of using UTM on Intel in the next day, because it's almost impossible to find instructions for running it on Intel that are as clear as the instructions for using VMWare to do Intel-on-Intel.

 

[tsialex]

If you want to run any virtualization to work with your 2008 Mac Pro, you are limited to solutions that existed back for Mojave, maybe Catalina, and run Leopard/Snow Leopard to have Rosetta.

Your Xeons doesn't support a lot of instructions required for the modern way to virtualize macOS/run modern virtualized apps after Big Sur. No modern VMware Fusion or VirtualBox and no UTM at all for any Mac Pro before the 2013 Mac Pro, after Apple changed everything Hypervisor related with Big Sur. We already discussed this in the past:

Windows on an cMP running OCLP Monterey

Vmware Fusion is not compatible with MacPros earlier than MacPro6,1 since at least Big Sur and Fusion 12, when the XSAVE instruction started to be required, so, no go. I never used Parallels, so I'm not sure about the hardware requirements and if any excludes MacPro3,1. You'll probably need to...

forums.macrumors.com

You could try VMware Fusion 10 or 11, but if you don't own the old licences, this will be a moot point since you can't officially acquire any today, for any price. Blame Broadcom.

Since you also have a GPU that does not have drivers before Sierra, maybe is best to install bare metal to one of your other old Macs like the MacPro2,1 and make a dedicated scanner station.

Another solution is Vuescan, but since you don't wan't to run it anymore, I've added just for anyone else that have the same necessity.

 

[pullman]

Thank you Alex. I remember that discussion but thought I should ask more about virtualisation since I'd recently come across Virtualbox. This project has taken a lot longer than I thought it would.

I still have the Snow Leopard CD that I got way back when, and may even have the original Leopard CD the computer came with in 2008.

But the Windows route is probably the easiest, given the GPU I now have in the computer and its age and limited specs. My other scanner is a Flextight X1. I'll need to look into if its software (Flexcolor) works with Win 10 too. That would really make my day.

If you want to run any virtualization to work with your 2008 Mac Pro, you are limited to solutions that existed back for Mojave, maybe Catalina, and run Leopard/Snow Leopard to have Rosetta.

Your Xeons doesn't support a lot of instructions required for the modern way to virtualize macOS/run modern virtualized apps after Big Sur. No modern VMware Fusion or VirtualBox and no UTM at all for any Mac Pro before the 2013 Mac Pro, after Apple changed everything Hypervisor related with Big Sur. We already discussed this in the past:

Windows on an cMP running OCLP Monterey

Vmware Fusion is not compatible with MacPros earlier than MacPro6,1 since at least Big Sur and Fusion 12, when the XSAVE instruction started to be required, so, no go. I never used Parallels, so I'm not sure about the hardware requirements and if any excludes MacPro3,1. You'll probably need to...

forums.macrumors.com

You could try VMware Fusion 10 or 11, but if you don't own the old licences, this will be a moot point since you can't officially acquire any today, for any price. Blame Broadcom.

Since you also have a GPU that does not have drivers before Sierra, maybe is best to install bare metal to one of your other old Macs like the MacPro2,1 and make a dedicated scanner station.

Another solution is Vuescan, but since you don't wan't to run it anymore, I've added just for anyone else that have the same necessity.

 

[Bigwaff]

Here where to find older versions of Parallels.

KB Parallels: Download links for legacy Parallels Desktop versions

Download links for active Parallels Desktop for Mac versions, documentation are available here:

kb.parallels.com

Parallels Desktop for Mac 15/16 compatible with Xeon and High Sierra, Mojave, El Crapitan, etc... but you'll need to find/buy license. Perhaps download has trial window and you can experiment.