Bethesda Sues Warner Bros for Copying Fallout Shelter With New Westworld iOS Game

[sdf]

I would be very surprised if they had a contract that would allow it. It’s certainly possible but they would have really bad lawyers or really bad negotiators to allow for that.

Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.

But, likewise, never attribute to incompetence that which can be explained by apathy.

I have worked on projects with contracts like this. All that would have to happen is that Bethesda was internally convinced the Fallout name was a necessary part of success. "You want the code for some unrelated game? Have at it, just don't release anything more recent than two years old." Then the new game manages to get the Westworld name and Bethesda suddenly realizes that's even bigger.

It doesn't require bad lawyers or bad negotiators. It just requires a difference in perceived value of code vs. trademarks, and the other party being proved right later.

KEEP IN MIND I'm not saying this is what happened. I haven't seen the contract. But we shouldn't throw around terms like "theft" until it's at least been read by someone who can comment on it.

 

[nwcs]

Never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence.

But, likewise, never attribute to incompetence that which can be explained by apathy.

I have worked on projects with contracts like this. All that would have to happen is that Bethesda was internally convinced the Fallout name was a necessary part of success. "You want the code for some unrelated game? Have at it, just don't release anything more recent than two years old." Then the new game manages to get the Westworld name and Bethesda suddenly realizes that's even bigger.

It doesn't require bad lawyers or bad negotiators. It just requires a difference in perceived value of code vs. trademarks, and the other party being proved right later.

KEEP IN MIND I'm not saying this is what happened. I haven't seen the contract. But we shouldn't throw around terms like "theft" until it's at least been read by someone who can comment on it.

It could be. I guess in my field (healthcare software) this kind of thing never happens. There is so much legal wrangling about who owns what, what can be re-used, etc. that it just doesn’t happen. It’s a long road but if they have their ducks in a row they might pull it off.

 

[sdf]

It could be. I guess in my field (healthcare software) this kind of thing never happens. There is so much legal wrangling about who owns what, what can be re-used, etc. that it just doesn’t happen. It’s a long road but if they have their ducks in a row they might pull it off.

I have been involved in some very strange "forks."

Here's an example:

Company A owns company B and C. We created a product on contract for B. Company A sells the company B and all its assets to company D, a totally unrelated company. We continue to do development for company B-D. About a year later, it surfaces that company A sold a non-exclusive license for our product only (meaning no other products), including source and everything but the name, to company C. Company D hadn't cared at the time.

Company C comes to us to do maintenance. Naturally, we're apprehensive, even though they've got all their legal ducks in a row. Then company B-D cancels our contract, and suddenly company C's contract looks great. Sure, it's an old version of our code, but we know that code. All those developers that needed to be laid off or transferred to different projects… there's something for them to work on now!

Then company B-D comes back and wants a new contract. So we take that contract, being careful to introduce enough elbows that there's no one in common to either project.

So now we're working on both products, known to both companies. The companies, both in small and large forms (B vs C, and B-D vs C-A) growl at each other but each inspect what we're doing and are satisfied we've got enough separation. And we did. I was the expert on the original product and after all this settled I was working on the B-D contract. I would nod to the C people in the lunch room or we'd talk weekend plans, but there was no discussion of code.

Eventually, C didn't want any more changes. And five years later, neither did B. Nobody got sued, and in the end it didn't really matter.

 

[Misuteri]

Reminds me how Tengen stole intellectual property from Nintendo for the '10-NES' lockout chip to manufacture unlicensed NES (famicom) games. The damning evidence was the fact that Tengen's version of the '10-NES' code had code that was later removed by Nintendo in the final iteration of the '10-NES' chips.

Tengen abused the way companies can see other companies' intellectual property by filing dubious lawsuits and asking the copyright office for a copy on a false claim (that the 10-NES code had to do with their lawsuit).

That lawsuit is actually pretty damn fascinating.

They sent someone into a patent office saying the 10 NES code was involved in a dispute. The patent office gave it to them. The information the patent office gave them let them trick the lockout chipset. As you can imagine, the judge did not look kindly upon that action.

The funniest way I heard of a 3rd party getting around the lockout chip/10 NES code though was just zapping it like a taser victim repeatedly and never giving it a chance to “handshake” the cartridge. The game just worked because it was getting zapped repeatedly.

I think that this is pretty open and shut if the same bug exists or can be shown to exist in respective versions of the game.

 

[Daremo]

Bethesda. Maybe I need to sue Bethesda for stealing lyrics I wrote for my band, and after they took full and exact verses from songs and used them as character dialog in Skyrim, and I contacted them for even a copy of the game, I was ignored... Funny how things work.

 

[rolsskk]

My bet is Bethesda will lose.

EDIT - Unless they actually copied code (I just read that part).

You can't defend "concepts"..... but if they can prove stolen code, that's different.

But I can't imagine it would be hard to re-create the same game with different code.

Congrats on posting before reading!

 

[MacSince1985]

I doubt they'll win the suit based on concept and style. There are plenty of games, including board games, with the same concept.

The key factor is that "copyrighted code" and who owns it. The developer who (I assume) wrote it, or the client who hired the developer? Without seeing the fine print of the contracts, there's no way to know which way this will go.

 

[ActionableMango]

Boy you can really tell who read the article before commenting, and who didn't.

 

[sdf]

The key factor is that "copyrighted code" and who owns it. The developer who (I assume) wrote it, or the client who hired the developer? Without seeing the fine print of the contracts, there's no way to know which way this will go.

And it could easily be "both." Non-exclusive deals on code happen all the time. It's a weird world.

 

[macduke]

I never played this even though I love the Fallout series. But I'm super hyped about Fallout 76 and being able to play with my friend for the first time who is also a big Fallout fan. Mobile gaming is really interesting. They said at their E3 event that they had more people install Fallout Shelter than every other game they've sold combined. And they made freaking Skyrim among many other popular titles. I'm looking forward to seeing what they do with that new "The Elder Scrolls Blades" mobile game and I'm curious whether they'll show it off more at the iPhone event in September.

A lot of people hate on the mobile gaming stuff but they seem committed to single player stuff as well with Starfield and The Elder Scrolls VI coming down the pipe in a few years. There is a lot of money to be made on mobile but Bethesda doesn't seem to be so money-grubbing like EA and Valve. I think they'll continue to use some of the money they make on mobile to fund these bigger, story-driven projects. And expanding out to multiplayer in some games like Fallout 76 is a good way to keep moving forward and not stagnate. I can see them doing single and multiplayer versions of many of their games going forward. Though honestly even co-op would be fine by me! Not everything has to be GTA Online.

 

[flyinmac]

C'mon bud, at least read some of the article before posting.

If Behavior didn't already have the relationship with Bethesda, this case might be a lot harder to prove. That code bug though... that might be the smoking gun.​

There is actually a way out...

It appears from the article that Bethesda contracted Behavior to produce a game for them. It is very Likely that Behavior used code / a game engine that they’ve employed previously in other software.

If Behavior can prove that the code existed prior to Bethesda contracting them, then Besthesda’s claim will probably go down in flames.

The bug may very well exist in multiple other titles, or even beta versions of other titles worked on by Behavior.

 

[AronDraws]

Wow, even the parallax of the backgrounds is the same.

 

[jlc1978]

It's not just that it looks similar, it apparently has some of the bugs that Fallout Shelter had in the beginning. They're claiming the company that they paid to make Shelter took the code and basically sold it again.

They're alleging that they stole intellectual property (code) from fallout shelter, and used it in Westworld iOS.

It will be interesting to see what rights each party had to the code developed for Bethesda. If Bethesda does not own the code then it is not surprising it got reused.

 

[calvz]

SimTower from 1994 says hi...

 

[Michael Goff]

SimTower from 1994 says hi...

And if you can find code from SimTower in Fallout Shelter,you may have a point.

 

[imgroot]

SimTower from 1994 says hi...

Oh man, I remember that. Ha!

 

[rolsskk]

SimTower from 1994 says hi...

Let me know how this is relevant to the issue at hand.

 

[pat500000]

It’s a fallout for WB.....

 

[Kaibelf]

If anything, the people who designed WW look incredibly lazy. Fallout shelter was a pretty popular app so there’s very little way of making this not look like a cheap reskinned knockoff.

 

[Marshall73]

Apart from the code thing fallout shelter just copied tiny tower anyway.

 

[lederermc]

Transitivity => If the Westworld IOS game is based on the HBO show then Fallout Shelter infringes on the HBO Show?

 

[LawJolla]

You're brave, coming on here and admitting to that!

Most people make silly IP proclamations because they don't understand the competing objectives or how it actually works. I'm happy to answer any questions!

 

[Juicy Box]

It's impossible not to see the similarities between Fallout Shelter and Westworld

Just based off of the looks of it, they both remind me of Sim Tower:

Just more modern.

 

[LawJolla]

I doubt they'll win the suit based on concept and style. There are plenty of games, including board games, with the same concept.

The key factor is that "copyrighted code" and who owns it. The developer who (I assume) wrote it, or the client who hired the developer? Without seeing the fine print of the contracts, there's no way to know which way this will go.

Well said.

Moreover, it isn't clear that software copyright can be assigned as a "work for hire." There is no binding judicial precedent and very little dicta (non-binding statements from the court) on point. A plain reading of the statute strongly suggests that you cannot make software programs a work for hire..

A work for hire is...
" a work prepared by an employee within the scope of his or her employment
or
a work specially ordered or commissioned for use:
1 as a contribution to a collective work,
2 as a part of a motion picture or other audiovisual work,
3 as a translation,
4 as a supplementary work,
5 as a compilation,
6 as an instructional text,
7 as a test,
8 as answer material for a test, or
9 as an atlas,

if the parties expressly agree in a written instrument signed by them that the work shall be considered a work made for hire.

 

[mazz0]

Hmm, at the start of the article I was ready to point out how utterly onoriginal Fallout Shelter was and how the idea of them suing someone for copying them was absurd, but come on! This is Samsung levels of blatant!