Better to have Modem and Router separate?

[DualShock]

DualShock - Right now I'm comparing an Apple Airport Extreme/ARRIS SB6183 modem setup to an ARRIS SBG7580-AC all-in-one router/modem combination. They would be about the same price out the door if I purchased a refurbished Airport Extreme as opposed to brand new. I like the idea of having one device as opposed to two separate devices for the ease of technical support in case something goes wrong; for example: the modem manufacturer blaming the router manufacturer and visa versa. However, if you think the Airport Extreme/ARRIS SB6183 modem setup would offer better WiFi performance, please say so!

http://www.arris.com/surfboard/products/wi-fi-cable-modems/sbg7580-ac/

I can't really speak to wireless performance for the Arris all-in-one you suggested, as I've never used it. Though I think if you are in a single floor house as you said, most routers should be fine.

I have tested devices wirelessly connected to my AirPort Extreme from the basement of my house (a split level), 3 floors below the router's location, and I still got decent 5GHz and 2.4 GHz reception, so it should definitely be fine for your house. And by "decent", I mean that I was able to stream Xfinity TV content through their web site on 5 GHz and 2.4 GHz and it came out pretty smooth with no stuttering. I didn't actually run any speed tests though.

 

[techwarrior]

techwarrior - My house is only 1200 sq/ft. Do you think the Airport Extreme will cover that?

Which router are you using with your Motorola modem?

I am using Airport Time Capsule (current version) which is the same as the current Extreme model but with an HDD built in.

1200 square feet should be fine with a single router, but it depends on a lot of factors. My home is 2000 sq feet on 2 floors, so I have the Time Capsule, an older Extreme (dual band but not AC) and an Express (dual band but not AC). I spread these out and connect them all via Ethernet and it works quite well for my home.

If the home is mostly wood frame, drywall construction, you should be fine. With brick, steel, and other materials, signals can deteriorate, particularly with the 5Ghz frequency. The AC line of routers use beam forming to make 5Ghz connections stronger, basically the router detects where the client device is located and focusses the signal in that direction. But, these also have 2.4Ghz which has a longer range than the 5Ghz. If it is possible to place the router near the center of the home, and up high (top floor or on a shelf) and away from other electronic devices, you will generally get the best performance from it.

2.4G is more susceptible to interference from microwave ovens, bluetooth and wireless phones and keyboards, radar, and neighbor's wifi networks (due to longer range of 150 - 300 ft.). 2.4 also has fewer channels so overlap in densely populated areas is common.

5Ghz has shorter range (generally 50% of that of 2.4Ghz), and as such is less likely to compete with neighbors. It also doesn't experience as much interference from other wireless devices, and has far more channels to Avoid overlap.

When you setup the router, you can either use the same network name (SSID) for both frequency bands, or separate names. The benefit of the same name is simplicity. But with a separate name, you can "forget" the network band that doesn't work as well in certain locations. Smart devices (PC, Mac, iOS, Android) can remember multiple networks and switch to whatever network offers the best signal. But appliance like devices including AppleTV, IP Cameras, etc can often only remember one network, and some are even limited to 2.4Ghz (to keep cost down). By using separate SSID, you can avoid conflicts by using the 5Ghz bands for devices that support it, and leave more capacity on 2.4 for the devices that are not in range, or unable to use 5Ghz.

 

[Beerstalker]

You didn't mention it, but if you are getting phone service from Comcast I believe it narrows down your options on what modem/router you use.

I personally have used both modems with WiFi Routers built in, and separates. I've never had a combo modem/router fail, but I have had two stand alone WiFi routers fail. So I wouldn't be all that worried about failures.

 

[Floris]

I'm having to switch from AT&T to Comcast and I don't want to spend the $10 per month rental fees indefinitely. My head is swimming from all the product research I've been doing on modems and routers. The manager at BestBuy said to get the modem and router separate because the all-in-one units run too hot. I like the idea of having everything in one box because that means only one cord to plug into the wall. Doing a search and reading all the past threads, it seems none of you people ever talk about the all-in-one units and rarely talk about modems. Most of the conversations are usually about routers only. If any of you can recommend a cable modem and a router I'd be very grateful. I live in a small single story 1200 sq/ft. house and I'm usually running my Mac laptop by itself most of the time. I can't see myself ever running more than a computer, TV, and printer at one time. Oh and the connection speed is only going to be 25mbps. I'm wondering why Apple never made an all-in-one modem/router combo.

I got a docsis3 cable modem for 300/30 mbit, the modem was hot, and crap wifi range, and all that. I got a netgear r7000 nighthawk router and put the modem in bridge mode. 99% speed in all the rooms in my apartment, way better ping and all my daily and weekly internet problems were resolved.

The only reason I didn't have a router before on it, was because the old ones were 100mbit ones.

Let the modem be the thing the isp wants, confirm you paid. And let the router help you have devices on 2,4ghz and 5gh and g/n/ac - all at the same time (if they support it) and a proper guest network, instead of their hotspot semi sharing everything is still probable actually custom firmware isp modem nonsense.

Once i had such a great experience with the r7000, I converted my family members and their LAN at the very least improved.

 

[winston1236]

I'm having to switch from AT&T to Comcast and I don't want to spend the $10 per month rental fees indefinitely. My head is swimming from all the product research I've been doing on modems and routers. The manager at BestBuy said to get the modem and router separate because the all-in-one units run too hot. I like the idea of having everything in one box because that means only one cord to plug into the wall. Doing a search and reading all the past threads, it seems none of you people ever talk about the all-in-one units and rarely talk about modems. Most of the conversations are usually about routers only. If any of you can recommend a cable modem and a router I'd be very grateful. I live in a small single story 1200 sq/ft. house and I'm usually running my Mac laptop by itself most of the time. I can't see myself ever running more than a computer, TV, and printer at one time. Oh and the connection speed is only going to be 25mbps. I'm wondering why Apple never made an all-in-one modem/router combo.

My modem, router, and WiFi are all separate units connected by Cat6a cable.
Modem is a TP LINK TC7610
Router is Edgerouter X
Wifi is Unifi AP AC LR

It's hard to recommend a router without knowing how tech savvy you are, some people find it easier to use the standard consumer routers because they do most of the config work for you.

The modem/router combos don't run too hot, always be skeptical of what anyone at best buy tells you.

 

[alphaod]

techwarrior - My house is only 1200 sq/ft. Do you think the Airport Extreme will cover that?

Which router are you using with your Motorola modem?

Regardless to how big your home is, the AirPort Extreme a terrible deal. It's old and expensive. I prefer the Asus stuff since you can use third-party firmware, so I have a RT3100 which works great, but you can get Netgear or any number of brands.

 

[DualShock]

DualShock - Right now I'm comparing an Apple Airport Extreme/ARRIS SB6183 modem setup to an ARRIS SBG7580-AC all-in-one router/modem combination. They would be about the same price out the door if I purchased a refurbished Airport Extreme as opposed to brand new. I like the idea of having one device as opposed to two separate devices for the ease of technical support in case something goes wrong; for example: the modem manufacturer blaming the router manufacturer and visa versa. However, if you think the Airport Extreme/ARRIS SB6183 modem setup would offer better WiFi performance, please say so!

http://www.arris.com/surfboard/products/wi-fi-cable-modems/sbg7580-ac/

One other thing I forgot about. The latest Airport Extreme model (short white tower, 802.11ac model) can only be configured with a Mac or iOS device. Specifically, a version of macOS that can run the configuration utility. I don't know what the maximum supported version of macOS works on your 2007 MacBook Pro, but you may want to review the system requirements for the Airport Extreme to make sure that your Mac can configure it. Otherwise, if you don't have an iOS device that can run the Airport app, you'd be out of luck.
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Regardless to how big your home is, the AirPort Extreme a terrible deal. It's old and expensive.

But it's easy to configure if you are a non-technical Mac or iOS user. I don't know how technically inclined the OP is, but he did mention wanting to use his MacBook Pro.

 

[techwarrior]

Regardless to how big your home is, the AirPort Extreme a terrible deal. It's old and expensive. I prefer the Asus stuff since you can use third-party firmware, so I have a RT3100 which works great, but you can get Netgear or any number of brands.

OP has 25Mbps ISP service with Comcrap. Airport is overkill for that ISP service level, only thing a "better" Wi-Fi unit would do is speed up internal file transfers\streams.

Airport is still a decent product, it is just not at the top of the list performance wise. But up to 2 years ago, it came rated near the top of the pack in many tech reviews. Price-wise, sure it is a bit overpriced as are nearly all Apple products (not much so if you buy refurb units). But, for those who don't need\want to mess with complicated setups, it is certainly viable.

Your comment would be useful advice if OP was dealing with 1Gbps fibre service.

One other thing I forgot about. The latest Airport Extreme model (short white tower, 802.11ac model) can only be configured with a Mac or iOS device.

Is that true? I thought Windows utility works on them too. Regardless, OP stated Mac and iOS devices in his arsenal.

 

[DualShock]

Is that true? I thought Windows utility works on them too. Regardless, OP stated Mac and iOS devices in his arsenal.

Yep. Older models can be managed using the Airport Utility for Windows, but it appears Apple stopped updating / supporting the utility and it does not work with the 802.11ac model. The Windows utility still has the "old" look and feel and has lots more options than the "new" one, which as I recall, there was quite a bit of backlash when those options were removed in the "new" utility.

Plus the "new" utility doesn't work with old macOS versions, I'm just not sure which ones.

 

[techwarrior]

The MBP is a mid 2007 model A1226.

According to everymac.com, that model supported 802.11a/b/g/n which means it would support 5Ghz a\n. The Airport Extreme AC would use a\n\ac radio mode for 5Ghz frequency.

 

[Merkava_4]

After taking careful consideration of everyone's fantastic recommendations, I've decided to go with the Airport Extreme AC for the router. It reminds me of the Apple power adapter and I wonder if the build quality is similar. The power adapter is built like a tank. Now all I have to do is decide on a cable modem. I've narrowed it down to three of the top rated modems:

1. http://www.zoomtel.com/products/5370.html
2. https://motorolanetwork.com/mb7420.html
3. http://www.arris.com/surfboard/products/cable-modems/sb6183/

 

[DualShock]

Refurbished Arris SB6183 available at Staples.com for $30. This has hit Slickdeals so it will likely sell out real fast.

http://www.staples.com/Arris-SURFboard-SB6183-Refurbished-Cable-Modem/product_2719381

 

[winston1236]

OP has 25Mbps ISP service with Comcrap. Airport is overkill for that ISP service level, only thing a "better" Wi-Fi unit would do is speed up internal file transfers\streams.

Airport is still a decent product, it is just not at the top of the list performance wise. But up to 2 years ago, it came rated near the top of the pack in many tech reviews. Price-wise, sure it is a bit overpriced as are nearly all Apple products (not much so if you buy refurb units). But, for those who don't need\want to mess with complicated setups, it is certainly viable.

Your comment would be useful advice if OP was dealing with 1Gbps fibre service.

The argument could also be made that it's not a great buy just for the sake of future-proofing. It's quite pricey for it's age and large gains have been made recently in WiFi technology.

Plus if you live in a dense area you need power to drown out all the spammy 'xfinity wifi' broadcast.

 

[Fishrrman]

Back when ATT came out with Uverse in this area, I went with their "triple" option (Internet, tv, VOIP telephone) and it was installed with a "residential gateway" (modem + router combo).

The router portion only had "n" wireless. My sister was given an older (but working) "flat model" Airport Extreme. I put the AE into bridge mode, turned off wireless on the residential gateway, and everything works fine.

Frontier has since taken over from ATT here, but the old hardware remains. It's not a fast service (8mbps net), but it works.

HOWEVER -- I WOULD NOT buy another Airport now, even a refurbished one, because it's essentially "dead technology".

Instead, I would go for a "mesh solution", with either one, two, or three units, depending on square footage.

For example, for a 1,200sqft home or apartment on ONE level, a single unit might do.
For TWO levels -- router + satellite. If it runs strongly with just the router, save the satellite for future use.

Again I suggest to the OP:
I'd use THEIR residential gateway setup for a few months, just to make sure everything is stable.
At that point, you could return their RD and put into place your own modem/router setup.

And again, I'd consider mesh before the AE.

 

[Merkava_4]

Fishrrman - The factory refurbished Apple Airport Extreme AC is due to arrive tomorrow. Do you think I should leave it in its sealed box and return it to the Apple Store? I believe they have a 14 day return policy, but I don't know if that applies to refurbished products. Right now I'm considering the Motorola MG7550 modem+router combination because it's receiving a lot of 5 star reviews on Amazon. What do you think about that idea?

 

[techwarrior]

Fishrrman - The factory refurbished Apple Airport Extreme AC is due to arrive tomorrow. Do you think I should leave it in its sealed box and return it to the Apple Store? I believe they have a 14 day return policy, but I don't know if that applies to refurbished products. Right now I'm considering the Motorola MG7550 modem+router combination because it's receiving a lot of 5 star reviews on Amazon. What do you think about that idea?

Merkava, just about anything you buy right now will works just fine for your limited ISP service. 25Mbps is a slow internet connection speed, and even 8-10 year old Wi-Fi routers are capable of keeping up with your internet speed. And, future proofing is kind of futile right now because 5G is likely to spawn new fixed wireless internet options for our homes, at which point, faster Wi-Fi will become necessary to utilize the speeds (expected to be in excess of 1Gbps by many accounts). When this happens, we will all be rushing out to buy newer, faster gear, so save your nickels for now.

I have Comcast's 70Mbps service and typically see 80+Mbps speedtest results with an old, "unsupported" DOCSIS 3 Motorola modem and Time Capsule. You can expect with AP Extreme + a cheap DOCIS 3 modem to get 30-35Mbps speeds.

So, for now, don't sweat over it. Virtually any modem Comcast supports will work with your current service, so don't overspend, it won't help. As for Wi-Fi, if you are happy with Apple's platforms and simplicity, Airport is not a bad way to go, not the best but overkill for your current service.

Chances are, Apple will come out with newer, faster Wi-Fi when the ISP technology advances become apparent. Although it is reported they have discontinued Airport development, they simply re-assigned the engineers to other products rather than letting them go. To me, that suggests they intend to offer networking gear on some new product platform, perhaps combining with other products like the rumored Siri speaker. If that happens in the next 30 days at WWDC, return your equipment and dive in. If not, hold on to it and sell it on eBay in a year or two. There will always be a market for used Apple gear, and in the meantime, it will serve your needs.

Back to your original post, you wondered why Apple never built a combo unit. Airport routers can work with any cable, or DSL modem. But, they would need different models to sell combo units. And with the pace of modem changes, it would require significant investment to keep offering state of the art gear. Smart manufacturers profit more by investing once and selling for several years as opposed to new models every year, at least on lower volume gear. iOS devices benefit from higher volumes reducing the payback period, so they keep on top of that. But network gear is something we typically buy less often, and the market is saturated with options.

 

[Fishrrman]

If you've already ordered the AE, I'd just keep it.
It should continue to run well for several years and should easily cover 1200 sq. ft.
I'm thinking that at some point in the future, however, Apple may stop issuing updates for it (same issue with mine).
Whether that will "break it" insofar as working with updated versions of the Mac OS or newer Macs -- no way to tell.