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Beware of iPhone 6s in 16GB | 4K = 1GB a minute

Can't you just save the videos in iCloud and not use any of your storage? Forgive me for sounding dumb but that's what I do with my photos anyway. Does videos work the same way? I don't really take videos and 16gb has always been enough for me.
 
Cuniac said:
So there is going to be a huge problem for people choosing iPhone 6s in 16GB. That problem is 4K video recording.

Apple announced this amazing new feature for the 6s. The inherent problem with this upgrade is that the video size is going to increase dramatically. Currently with my iPhone 6, one hour of 1080p video takes up 10.1GB. Luckily most of us are not taking 1hour of video at a time, but all the little video clips add up quickly. This already means that the 16GB model did not leave much space for anything else when your taking video.

Now lets talk 4k Video. 4K is four times the resolution of 1080p. This means that file size is going to be gigantic even with the h.265 compression. For example Tears of the Sun, a 4K short filmed at 23 FPS (7 less that what the iPhone will shoot) is only 12minutes. The file size 11.9GB. That's about 1GB per minute. So after the 16GB format and ISO install you left with about 14GB giving you only 14min of Video space if you install nothing else on the phone.

Please take this into consideration if you are getting the 6s.
Click to expand...

Love how you go from iPhone video sample size to a movie sample size.

Taking your example: 10GB/hour = 0.17GB/minute.

If you simply multiply by 4 (areal increase) you get 0.67GB/minute. Note: this is less than 1GB/minute and the theoretical upper limit assuming encoding quality remains the same.

H.265 is supposed to be twice as space efficient as well...
 
masotime said:
As mentioned above, 4K video does not take up 1 GB per minute.

The precise bitrate is 50 megabits / sec, which translates to 6.25 megabytes / sec or 375 megabytes / minute. This is barely more than 1/3 of the figure you are plucking out of thin air.

As to whether it is utilizing the HEVC codec... this is debatable. h.265 is supposed to provide the same quality at half the bitrate, and most 4k consumer digital cameras now record at 100Mbps. If we read the given bitrate of 50Mbps as an implication that the codec is h.265, that would be good, but I wouldn't put too much stock on that speculation.
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Okay, so the problem goes from being able to record around 14 min of 4k video to around 40 min. That's still a problem for a brand new phone in 2015, and that's assuming the device has no apps, music or photos on it....
 
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masotime said:
As mentioned above, 4K video does not take up 1 GB per minute.

The precise bitrate is 50 megabits / sec, which translates to 6.25 megabytes / sec or 375 megabytes / minute. This is barely more than 1/3 of the figure you are plucking out of thin air.

As to whether it is utilizing the HEVC codec... this is debatable. h.265 is supposed to provide the same quality at half the bitrate, and most 4k consumer digital cameras now record at 100Mbps. If we read the given bitrate of 50Mbps as an implication that the codec is h.265, that would be good, but I wouldn't put too much stock on that speculation.
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I hope you are right. The data I was going off what a 4k video encoded with h.265 at 23FPS and that's what it used. If its 375MB that would be much better. I will run a test as soon as its in my hand :). Still makes the 16GB seem smaller than last year.
 
MH01 said:
Okay, so the problem goes from being able to record around 14 min of 4k video to around 40 min. That's still a problem for a brand new phone in 2015, and that's assuming the device has no apps, music or photos on it....
Click to expand...

Is there any actual confirmation that the default video recording mode is 4k? This may be a problem for the average consumer, but no one is forcing you to record at 4k. Just set it back to 1080p30 and you're good to go. Is this really that big of a deal?
 
Cuniac said:
I hope you are right. The data I was going off what a 4k video encoded with h.265 at 23FPS and that's what it used. If its 375MB that would be much better. I will run a test as soon as its in my hand :). Still makes the 16GB seem smaller than last year.
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Do you have a link to this video? The size of a video is tied more to the bitrate than to the resolution. You can have a 4k video at a bitrate of 10Mbps and it'll look blocky compared to a 1080p video at 30Mbps. It's possible this video was intentionally recorded at a high bitrate for quality purposes.
 
masotime said:
Is there any actual confirmation that the default video recording mode is 4k? This may be a problem for the average consumer, but no one is forcing you to record at 4k. Just set it back to 1080p30 and you're good to go. Is this really that big of a deal?
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Realistically no, lol its not. Its not an issue because it has options for 720p and 1080p. Most people will want to keep it at 1080p since it uses optical and digital stabilization from what I've read as 4k will only have optical and that's only on the 6S+. I guess if you have a 4K TV you would probably be buying the larger size anyway
 
masotime said:
Is there any actual confirmation that the default video recording mode is 4k? This may be a problem for the average consumer, but no one is forcing you to record at 4k. Just set it back to 1080p30 and you're good to go. Is this really that big of a deal?
Click to expand...
I'd be surprised if this is the default mode, if it is then whenever I get a phone that does 4K that will be the first thing I turn off regardless of the storage size that I choose. I don't have anything that can play 4K and I don't see myself getting anything with that resolution in the next few years so I won't use it until I actually get something that can display 4K.
 
masotime said:
Do you have a link to this video? The size of a video is tied more to the bitrate than to the resolution. You can have a 4k video at a bitrate of 10Mbps and it'll look blocky compared to a 1080p video at 30Mbps. It's possible this video was intentionally recorded at a high bitrate for quality purposes.
Click to expand...

You are probably right. I will check it out when I get home and see what its set to. Probably something crazy high.
 
Somewhat tangential, but the curious can try out some amazing 4k videos using the HEVC codec at http://www.libde265.org/downloads-videos/. For best results view it on a 15" rMBP or a 5k iMac if you can.

Tears of Steel is quite impressive, along with Sintel. These are recorded at fairly low bitrates while still preserving an amazing amount of quality. You'll probably need VLC to play these videos.
 
masotime said:
Somewhat tangential, but the curious can try out some amazing 4k videos using the HEVC codec at http://www.libde265.org/downloads-videos/. For best results view it on a 15" rMBP or a 5k iMac if you can.

Tears of Steel is quite impressive, along with Sintel. These are recorded at fairly low bitrates while still preserving an amazing amount of quality. You'll probably need VLC to play these videos.
Click to expand...

Tears of Steel was the video I was referring to :)
 
Cuniac said:
Tears of Steel was the video I was referring to :)
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Ah. I was wondering why I couldn't locate the 4k version of "Tears of the Sun". This is the HEVC version though, so it has a really low bitrate - 2.7MBps, which translates to roughly 20 megabytes / min (2700kbps / 8 * 60 / 1024) or 240 megabytes for 12 minutes. Your version is probably different.
 
masotime said:
Is there any actual confirmation that the default video recording mode is 4k? This may be a problem for the average consumer, but no one is forcing you to record at 4k. Just set it back to 1080p30 and you're good to go. Is this really that big of a deal?
Click to expand...

Buying an expansive phone in 2015, being the flagship phone, you realise the 16GB was a huge mistake cause your an average apple user and did not read through all the tech specs and just expected 4k to work based on the marketing.... So you have to record in 1080p / 30.... Yeah I can see this being an issue for some, you do not?

We geeks can debate this , though we will not be getting a 16GB, the average consumer is the one that will be caught out.

I personally hate getting devices whose features I cannot use due to subpar performance or storage.
 
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I actually expect the average consumer to care more about photos rather than 4k video, what with Instagram and Facebook etc. Consumers do take video, but do they really care about 4k? If the default setting is 1080p30 they will probably never change it.

Power users will naturally gravitate to the larger capacity models. But yes, if you're looking for a great 4k recording device in a smartphone form factor, I'd strongly recommend getting one with external storage.

For myself, I own a Panasonic LX100 with a 256GB SD Card, and it records great 4k video. If I plan to record long / large videos I'll stick with the LX100, rather than using the iPhone 6S, which will mostly be for video shorts when I don't have time to prepare the camera.

I suspect the Live Photo feature is what will really wow the average consumer, rather than the 4k recording capability.

MH01 said:
Buying an expansive phone in 2015, being the flagship phone, you realise the 16GB was a huge mistake cause your an average apple user and did not read through all the tech specs and just expected 4k to work based on the marketing.... So you have to record in 1080p / 30.... Yeah I can see this being an issue for some, you do not?

We geeks can debate this , though we will not be getting a 16GB, the average consumer is the one that will be caught out.

I personally hate getting devices whose features I cannot use due to subpar performance or storage.
Click to expand...
 
What I do find mystifying (although not confirmed yet) is why Apple does not implement the HEVC codec for 4k video. HEVC is excellent for low bitrate high quality 4k video, and I've successfully re-encoded several of my 100Mbps / 750 MB/min h.264 recordings from my LX100 to 4Mbps / 30 MB/min sizes, with very little noticeable loss in quality.

Implementing the encoding process would probably allow for e.g. 10Mbps / 75 MB/min 4k recordings, or almost 3 hours worth in 12GB which most consumers won't notice.

Perhaps the hardware isn't quite there yet? Still, the Samsung NX500 does runtime HEVC without issues.....
 
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I had forgotten about the sample movie. I downloaded it, and confirmed, older h.264 codec at 50Mbps:

iOAq5TDufkQBe.png


Video quality is decent. It's definitely 375MB/min.
 
masotime said:
I actually expect the average consumer to care more about photos rather than 4k video, what with Instagram and Facebook etc. Consumers do take video, but do they really care about 4k? If the default setting is 1080p30 they will probably never change it.

Power users will naturally gravitate to the larger capacity models. But yes, if you're looking for a great 4k recording device in a smartphone form factor, I'd strongly recommend getting one with external storage.

For myself, I own a Panasonic LX100 with a 256GB SD Card, and it records great 4k video. If I plan to record long / large videos I'll stick with the LX100, rather than using the iPhone 6S, which will mostly be for video shorts when I don't have time to prepare the camera.

I suspect the Live Photo feature is what will really wow the average consumer, rather than the 4k recording capability.
Click to expand...

Be interesting what the uptake is with 4K. I will no doubt give it a go on the iPhone, though I am like you and have a dedicated 4K camera.

I can see consumers complaining about storage and 4K recording post launch.

The LX100 is a nice piece of kit.
 
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