In that particular case perhaps but people need to realize that not all rulings in all cases necessarily apply to all other cases, even when there are similarities.
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Biden Administration Report Recommends Sweeping Changes to Apple's Ecosystem
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In that particular case perhaps but people need to realize that not all rulings in all cases necessarily apply to all other cases, even when there are similarities.
Let's start over. How do you define "dominance" as you continue to use it? How do you define "anticompetitive behavior"? What market are you referring to?
Dominance as in a position of power (typically measured by market share) where a company has a particularly high level of control and influence over a market. This by itself is not necessarily an issue. The potential issue comes in if that dominant company engages in anticompetitive behavior.
Anticompetitive behavior as in actions used to restrict or block competition in a market. This by itself is not necessarily an issue unless the company has a dominant position in the market. It's really about both.
A company with 1% market share, for example, restricting software on their device/platform would not have near the impact in the market as a similar company with something like 60% share doing the same thing. This is where antitrust laws and regulations can come in to try to keep dominant companies from unfairly controlling a particular market and potentially stifle competition and innovation.
When a streaming provider such as Spotify or Netflix either pay 30% commission and/or can’t tell people in-app how and where to easily subscribe elsewhere, they can‘t fairly compete with Apple TV or Music.
It is. It will only affect a handful of companies (due to size), and only a small piece of their respective businesses, namely a few „core platform services“. Admittedly, its ramifications may be more pronounced for Apple, who make billions from such services.
Sure. No self-preferencing.
But iOS does report back background activity of apps for battery usage today already.
The wording of that case was much less clear-cut though, and the case is being on appeal anyway.
That said, I believe specific legislation is the way to go forward - it will likely be hard to impossible to regulate App Stores and mobile OS based on existing competition law.
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Feefees? Oh, ok, thanks for clearing that one up. 🙄
So the wide availability of low cost android handsets isn't a major (if not primary) driver of handset choice in less affluent markets globally, but instead closed vs open OS is?
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Not if they have this PlayStation.
Administrations have been doing this since the ink dried on the Constitution.
😂 That’s not the hill you want to die on, no pun intended. Think of a better example.
Gasoline and electricity are consumables, completely different topic. I can’t go and hook up my Honda to a Toyota diagnostics machine.
Surprised Joey didn’t go and tell us how he was once a fighter pilot and in his younger years that’s how he would have handled things. 🙄
It always amuses me when people think a niche attribute is the primary reason people buy one type of product over another when in actual fact it normally boils down to how much money that person has got or is willing to spend. Both android and windows are really popular because they are the only 2 operating systems people who can't or don't want to spend much money can afford to buy.
I fully agree on that.
And that’s includes the „I‘m buying Apple cause it’s so restricted“ crowd that keeps chiming in threads like this. „If you force Apple to open up, you‘re taking people’s choice of buying Restricted.“
👉 No one woke up today, saying "Hell yeah, I love restrictions!" and dropped a thousand dollars on buying an iPhone over an Android.
I don’t think anyone buys an iPhone for that reason. But they do buy on privacy and security grounds, which that leads to.
So are apps and payments, they are "consumables", and you are derailing the conversation by trying to nitpick.
It's not "nitpicking" you are wrong. If you can't get that concept then you don't understand the current conversation. Apps are not consumables. You can run VisiCalc on your Commodore PET to this day if you wanted. No one "consumed all their VisiCalc" in 1987.
You are defending a point of view with something that is factually incorrect.
Allright, let's avoid anecdotal examples then and have real ones instead:
Neither Android, HarmonyOS, Windows (legacy) or Symbian (legacy) were walled gardens.
Neither is today's OSX, Windows, Linux or 99% of any other desktop/laptop operating systems. And neither are those running enterprise servers!
Now, just a while back there was a big "rrrreeee!" once Twitter blocked all third party apps. And though Twitter is an actual singular service and not an OS and neither a hardware manufacturer - the outrage was still there.
Now let's compare specifically iOS abd iOS devices:
- walled garden with no free sale/distribution of apps
- walled garden for payments
- compulsory app/subscription payment scheme that is not-negotiable
- all connectable accessories - even cables - need "special approval" and pay royalties
- mimic/emulation function on third party devices, or any kind of connectivity beyond very basic (read: CarPlay) requires licensing and royalties
- draconian aporoach to third-party repair, even repair by "authorised" businesses and individuals who do DYI: complete lockdown of spare parts at set unreasonably high prices that make third party repair barely profitable. "Calibration" of parts via Apple tech support that will allow exclusively Apple parts that are new - no third-party parts, no re-use of authentic Apple parts from other Apple devices.
- devices locked exclusively to iOS ecosystem. This was already apparent in the bare-minimum functionality support of Bootcamo Windows drivers; fatally worse still for example with Watch that despite full autonomy as basically it's own smartphone in both functionality and construction MUST be tied to an Apple phone. Literally no smart watch form any other manufacturer has this ecosystem-specific lock.
Apple has grown big, lobbyed for laws to be drafted in their favor as it is customary with American corporatocracy, and leaves the end user along with businesses tring to compete and/or offer third party services completely shafted in all cavities.
And this is not my opinion - it is the opinion of a number of US officials, it is the opinion of EU, India, Russia, Korea, and the list keeps getting bigger.
This hypocritical monopoly that seeks to reap all benefits of a free market yet at the same time curtail laws and best practices that cause it any kind of disadvantage and more rights to users and allows for actual level-field cimpetition is apparent to everyone with even limited understanding of the issue.
None of your doublethink or nonsensical hasbara will change my mind, even less the opinion of the plethora if legislative bodies around the world that are tearing down that narcissistic walled garden monlpoly.
🙄 Still waiting for relevant examples...
Android, HarmonyOS, Windows (legacy) and Symbian (legacy) are/were walled gardens. The difference being you approve of them. You can't just go and do whatever you want with them, they all have limitations of some kind. Go and attempt to create your own version of Android without abiding my Google's agreement and see how long that lasts as well as any of the others you mentioned.
To summarize, Apple has a business model where they want to protect their IP as well as their customer's user experience, and you along with US officials, the EU, India, Russia, Korea, (and the list keeps getting bigger 😯) are upset about it. Solution, STOP USING THE PRODUCTS THEN!
Are Apple's method's draconian? Maybe, in some cases. Are they illegal? The courts will decide. Does the paying public generally appreciate and approve of Apple's methods? It appears so. You want limited free reign over your devices, Android, HarmonyOS, Windows (legacy) and Symbian (legacy) is for you! There's a plethora of junky devices out there just waiting to provide the junky experience you seek.
I'll have to double-quote you here because there are two separate claims. First, what is in bold italic here:
Compared to Apple - I as an un-rooted complete, vanilla, factory fresh Android phone user can run just about anything from anywhere. If not - I can root the phone and DEFINITIVELY run anything from anywhere. Rooting and root access (for the very, very few quirky apps) is a "hidden" feature accessible with ease. Apple allows no such thing, with the jailbreak-vs-jailbreak-prevention being an eternal cat and mouse game that locks out literally 99% of regular non tech savvy users.
Now, that set aside, as a Samsung phone user I have two separate app stores on my phone - Apple allows no such thing. I can install OTHER app stores - Apple has no such thing. I can install apps downloaded as .apk files, freely available online - no such thing with Apple. I can pay one way, the other, and in 100+ ways more - Apple has no such thing. I can ... if I was a developer/coder, write apps myself, publish them which ever way I like - Apple allows no such thing.
Furthermore I have full file access, I can connect whatever device to my phone (as of late a no-name cheap chinese endoscope camera) and neither Google or Samsung are hindering me in any way. Why... I can even use whatever charging cable and wireless charged I damned well please! What a time to be alive. For me as a consumer and for the endless ocean of accessory/app market alike.
The ONLY real walled garden would ultimately be closed source code and installed OS. But, if I'd like, there a thing called "de-googling" where Android is installed as a completely Google service free OS, making my phone a nameless ghost on the cellular network besides my SIM.
Now ALL these options are for me as a user and for the free market enterprise available without ANY lockouts and/or walled gardens.
Just like there is ChromeOS which is some closed source code on top of open source Linux, there is Chromium which is a "parallel reality" where anyone can use it which ever way. Same with Android. So much so that India is developing it's own native OS based on Android.... and that's just a drop in the ocean compared to every which flavor available worldwide.
But see what you did there? You specifically went for your little, pathetic straw man argument "Well hurr durr there are SOME kind of limitations... " sure there are - but from a superficial uneducated consumer view and from the basic view of whatever existing or future company there's this view: we can do almost anything on Android or HarmonyOS (more on Android though) - we can't do anything except what Apple tells us to.
Frivolous example: before the built-in "find my AirPods" feature there was some nameless faceless hero who wrote his own app to do the same. Then came Apple, wrote their own built in feature that did the same, then pulled his app from the store for "redundancy".
Now I can literally download (And have!) separate apps on Android that replace my actual stock phone and messaging app. Mind you this is not so that one is besides the other - I turned the other ones off! I literally changed my default basic features of a phone with a few swipes. This is entirely impossible on iOS.
Ugh, yeah, business model and user experience.
This reminds me of similar asinine american words fresh from the 2020+ newspeak dictionary: not illegal aliens but "undocumented persons", not pedophile but "minor attracted person", not violent rioter but "peaceful protester", not coup de etat but "democratic transition of governance".
There's a different word for it - one that courts around the world used and to ram their verdicts up Apple's lightening port: Monopoly. Anti-competitive behavior. Misuse of market position.
As for the little outburst in all-CAPS: you know, if you don't like free and fair market, if you don't like equality for all under law, if you don't like consumer rights then pack your bags and vacate whatever little part of the western part of the world you currently occupy and move to a state of your choice where such rights do not exist.
Nah, you know what - I'll just cheer on the gradual tear-down of your idol and it's wicked ways instead, and instead of popcorn feed on your infantile frustration with what courts and govt assemblies worldwide do, despite your own falsely perceived superiority of opinion.
- written on my Macbook Air
That's why I can't get cloud gaming and Netflix and Spotify aren't allowed to tell me how to subscribe in apps on iOS?
Many are probably legal.
That's why governments around the world are working to - explicitly - make them illegal 🥳
Thank you once again for confirming everything I and others have already said, many times over as a matter of fact. Apple does not want you tinkering with their OS. You want to tinker there are alternatives for you. Not sure why you are surprised or angered that Apple doesn't let you do whatever you want to do with their intellectual property.I'll have to double-quote you here because there are two separate claims. First, what is in bold italic here:
Compared to Apple - I as an un-rooted complete, vanilla, factory fresh Android phone user can run just about anything from anywhere. If not - I can root the phone and DEFINITIVELY run anything from anywhere. Rooting and root access (for the very, very few quirky apps) is a "hidden" feature accessible with ease. Apple allows no such thing, with the jailbreak-vs-jailbreak-prevention being an eternal cat and mouse game that locks out literally 99% of regular non tech savvy users.
Now, that set aside, as a Samsung phone user I have two separate app stores on my phone - Apple allows no such thing. I can install OTHER app stores - Apple has no such thing. I can install apps downloaded as .apk files, freely available online - no such thing with Apple. I can pay one way, the other, and in 100+ ways more - Apple has no such thing. I can ... if I was a developer/coder, write apps myself, publish them which ever way I like - Apple allows no such thing.
Furthermore I have full file access, I can connect whatever device to my phone (as of late a no-name cheap chinese endoscope camera) and neither Google or Samsung are hindering me in any way. Why... I can even use whatever charging cable and wireless charged I damned well please! What a time to be alive. For me as a consumer and for the endless ocean of accessory/app market alike.
The ONLY real walled garden would ultimately be closed source code and installed OS. But, if I'd like, there a thing called "de-googling" where Android is installed as a completely Google service free OS, making my phone a nameless ghost on the cellular network besides my SIM.
Now ALL these options are for me as a user and for the free market enterprise available without ANY lockouts and/or walled gardens.
Just like there is ChromeOS which is some closed source code on top of open source Linux, there is Chromium which is a "parallel reality" where anyone can use it which ever way. Same with Android. So much so that India is developing it's own native OS based on Android.... and that's just a drop in the ocean compared to every which flavor available worldwide.
But see what you did there? You specifically went for your little, pathetic straw man argument "Well hurr durr there are SOME kind of limitations... " sure there are - but from a superficial uneducated consumer view and from the basic view of whatever existing or future company there's this view: we can do almost anything on Android or HarmonyOS (more on Android though) - we can't do anything except what Apple tells us to.
Frivolous example: before the built-in "find my AirPods" feature there was some nameless faceless hero who wrote his own app to do the same. Then came Apple, wrote their own built in feature that did the same, then pulled his app from the store for "redundancy".
Now I can literally download (And have!) separate apps on Android that replace my actual stock phone and messaging app. Mind you this is not so that one is besides the other - I turned the other ones off! I literally changed my default basic features of a phone with a few swipes. This is entirely impossible on iOS.
Ugh, yeah, business model and user experience.
This reminds me of similar asinine american words fresh from the 2020+ newspeak dictionary: not illegal aliens but "undocumented persons", not pedophile but "minor attracted person", not violent rioter but "peaceful protester", not coup de etat but "democratic transition of governance".
There's a different word for it - one that courts around the world used and to ram their verdicts up Apple's lightening port: Monopoly. Anti-competitive behavior. Misuse of market position.
As for the little outburst in all-CAPS: you know, if you don't like free and fair market, if you don't like equality for all under law, if you don't like consumer rights then pack your bags and vacate whatever little part of the western part of the world you currently occupy and move to a state of your choice where such rights do not exist.
Nah, you know what - I'll just cheer on the gradual tear-down of your idol and it's wicked ways instead, and instead of popcorn feed on your infantile frustration with what courts and govt assemblies worldwide do, despite your own falsely perceived superiority of opinion.
- written on my Macbook Air
Now lets interject some thinking points for you. Why isn't there a third app store on your Samsung device? I'm guessing you have access to the Google/Android store and Samsung? Google is obviously ok with Samsung having their app store available, is it Samsung not allowing others to play in their walled garden? 😱
You can freely install apps on an iPhone, it just has to be through the App Store. As an Apple developer you can write and release software to a limited group of users, or to the world if you want. If you took the time to see how their system works you could have probably saved your self a lot of time deflating your own posts.
Enjoy the cheap no-name cheap chinese endoscope camera. Quick scan of the Apple App Store and I see several options, most have 2 or 3 stars, so it doesn't appear there is much enjoyment being had. I have a high quality Flir that is fantastic for my needs, 4.5 stars with over 1.5k reviews.
Last thing I'll touch on while you're bouncing all over the place, the lightning port was ahead of its time. It was and still is the strongest mechanical design of any small connector. When it was released nothing came close. Apple dropped the ball, instead of it becoming the industry standard we're all now forced in to the path of USB-C which is far more fragile. Being forced in to using a particular style of connector by the government is not the "free and fair market" you think it is. 😂
Governments around the world "are working to - explicitly - make them illegal" because they are nervous how easy it is for people around the world to communicate with one another and see the various hypocrisies. Never forget government's #1 priority, protect government at all costs. Sad to say it but they don't care about you or me, although they play a good game on the news.
If that way their ultimate, overarching goal, they wouldn't try to pass all these bills and regulations to make app ecosystems more competitive. If governments want to stay, Apple's current model suits them perfectly.
Don't like a popular communications or media platform?
Just prohibit it then. See China or Russia. Or the U.S. with TikTok.
Imagine if anyone could install an app downloaded from the internet.
That ,ay undermine at censorship and restrict the free flow of (unsurveilled) communication.
Where on God's green earth did I say that I want Apple to make their OS open source? If you refer to my example of Android/Chromium/Linux being such, then that was just to prove my point that not BECAUSE of parts of it being closed-cource and commercially copyrighted/patented - but IN SPITE OF that being the fact for their closed source releases I can still take my (already pretty free) Android phone and "liberate" it entirely... yet at the same time would none of this involved any "jailbreaking" or "going against" Google. They have that, or rather: they facilitate that as an option to those who would like to do so.
I would suggest you read what I wrote before you write something based on your own imagination of what you THINK I wrote.
Well, right, there isn't because Google wrote the OS... or contributed in writing it, contributor nr 2 is Samsung. Now for reasons that would seem obvious to anyone but yourself they don't take their time to include other app stores on that phone... but me as a customer I can install which ever one I please. And I have installed apps that Google does not like on PlayStore due to their policies... and that went just fine. A very interesting "walled garden" indeed, where the end user can waltz just straight out of it, right? Lol. The straw man grows into Burning Man size dimensions.
I would like to ask you to read that bold italic text in the post quoted above several times, preferrably no less than 10 times, so you'd maybe... just maybe... understand what you just admitted here.
You know what else I enjoy? Printer protocols that are not dumbed-down "AirPrint"-locked. A myriad of apps that use Streng Verboten in Apfel Ökosysteme functions.
I thank you for this specific statement, because just like that "freely install apps" doublespeak this is right down the same alley.
Unless you have of course been living under a rock - Apple and Intel pushed together the adoption of USBC. What was retarded FireWire that ABOLUTELY NOBODY (well, except the DV cam people and some very few others) used, besides that even less so used... poor and forever alone Thunderbolt 1... and this is real tragic because I had just one Apple laptop with that connector, never used it, never seen anything for sale using it either.... anyhow: Apple and Intel joined forces to literally create USB-C/Thunderbold 2 and up which literally wiped away all ports INCLUDING the HDMI and by magic of modern technology even squeezed PCIE into it, along with now over 100W of PD.
Apple did that - not "some haters against Lightening". What Apple did not do is to relinquish the same archaic port from its phone. The same - once novel - but completely stupid connector that needs a chip with microcode just to adress the pins correctly (!!!).
I don't brag about any extensive electronics knowledge because my field of work is somewhat different, but even I know that.
There's hope for you though: all of what I said is on Wiki, take your time, take your vitamins, and you'll understand the same.
Or they could just be doing it for the same reason USB-micro was adopted: to avoid wasteful production of chargers and cables that could (and for all practical, economical, and competitive reasons because Apple as ******s that ask for Lightening licensing fees) be just one cable and one standard.
Same with Amazon. Maybe if other merchants could even ship things before Amazon delivers for an equal or lower price then everyone wouldn't default to Amazon all the time. Most of the time you don't even have a choice of shipping speed, and if you do, it costs 2-3+ the cost of one month of Prime.
Apple genuinely made a better product. IMO.
Reactive is what it’s supposed to be. You want corporations to compete with each other because they constantly have to produce better things at lower cost and drive the entire industry forward.
But when a company gets such a lead that they can just start extracting money because there’s no need to make things more efficient…then governments need to get involved to make it more competitive.
One of the attractions I have alway had with the Apple ecosystem is its fenced in nature. Coming from decades in the Microsoft junkyard I have alway liked the relative safety of iOS.
All of this is being driven by Spotify, Sweden it's homebase, and the EU. Biden's funklies do not want to be left behind by the EU, so we get this circus. I will admit it was a little strange to load app's on my new Mac computer outside of the Mac App store after 14 years of only iOS devices. I am coming from the PC world so loading outside of an "app store" is SOP. You alway check out any application before you load it but the fenced garden that is the Apple App store is very nice.