Big FAIL of ALL Thunderbolt docks

Discussion in 'Mac Accessories' started by cube, Aug 1, 2014.

  1. matreya macrumors 65816

    matreya

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2009
    #2
    I don't see the need for it, probably, neither do they :)

    I have a Thunderbolt-eSATA hub from Lacie and it connects to RAID boxes that have their own power.
     
  2. cube thread starter macrumors G5

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    May 10, 2004
    #3
    I want to plug and unplug a portable SSD twice a day.
     
  3. bennibeef macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    May 22, 2013
    #4
    Maybe you want to think about to get a USB 3.0 case for your mobile ssd. Its faster than esata. If you dont have USB 3.0 ports, heck maybe use firewire 800 which is still better than USB 2.0 or think about get just a Thunderbolt case for the SSD.

    Lets be honest who is using esata drives these days? Especially in the mac world.
     
  4. matreya macrumors 65816

    matreya

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    Nov 14, 2009
    #5
    Get a 2.5" Thunderbolt enclosure?
     
  5. cube thread starter macrumors G5

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    #6
    Because the fact that Thunderbolt docks have at most only 2 Thunderbolt ports is an even bigger FAIL ?

    ----------

    Because there would be no UNMAP currently using USB 3.0, AFAIK ?
     
  6. bennibeef macrumors 6502

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    May 22, 2013
    #7
    That "fail" that all thunderbolt docks have at most 2 ports is because you dont double or tripple this bus. This isnt USB. It it ultimately a different thing. It is to daisy chain the stuff on a PCIe bus. Yes the fail is at the devices which support only 1 thunderbolt port and not 2.


    You mean UNMAP in things like trim?
    Well I dont know about that but everyone is using SSDs with USB 3 or thunderbolt and heard nothing bad about it.
     
  7. cube thread starter macrumors G5

    Joined:
    May 10, 2004
    #8
    Yes, UNMAP, like one would use over UASP, so USB 3.0 is out.

    If there were a 1-bay 2.5" Thunderbolt enclosure with 2 ports, I would have already bought it.
     
  8. bennibeef macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    May 22, 2013
    #9
    Well if this is so important it does not work without it for some SCI things.

    Maybe something like this?
    http://www.amazon.com/Monoprice-108...8&qid=1406917841&sr=8-3&keywords=esata+esatap

    use the esata port from something you get from thunderbolt like a dock or thunderbolt -> esata adapter and get the power for esatap from usb
     
  9. cube thread starter macrumors G5

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    May 10, 2004
    #10
    Not elegant, but I guess I can waste a USB 3.0 port because I would have to get a a hub too anyway. Thanks.

    It doesn't change the fact that the easiest clean solution to the current situation is for the dock manufacturers to provide eSATAp ports, even if they were restricted in not supporting USB.
     
  10. bennibeef macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    May 22, 2013
    #11
    Yes its not really elegant. But I think there is not really much of a market for especially esatap so sad it sounds. I would go this far and say there is not much market for esata anyway. It sounds like you have a very special setup and there is a solution but not a pretty one
     
  11. cube thread starter macrumors G5

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    May 10, 2004
    #12
    Thunderbolt is expensive and rare, and the fact that USB3 might not be ready for SSDs, means that there is a market.

    Maybe the problem lies in that people don't know that they are lacking TRIM with USB in the general lack of awareness about eSATAp (I am thinking about a particularly shortsighted vendor to blame in part about that).

    It would be cheap to use eSATAp connectors and just provide power to them in Thunderbolt docks, while it would be a major selling point.
     
  12. cube thread starter macrumors G5

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    May 10, 2004
    #13
    Well, I found another cable 0.5m long. Let's hope it works at 6Gbps.
     
  13. ColdCase macrumors 68030

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    Feb 10, 2008
    Location:
    NH
    #14
    Dock guys probably just implement eSATA circuits from 5 years ago, before eSATAp was implemented. They just grabbed something they used on another product and plugged it in. SATA interoperability compliance is such a pain that sometimes developers just reuse what worked before. You would think they would use current stuff, its easy to put power on the cable.... but my experience is that most overlook portable eSATA drives in their use cases.
     
  14. JesterJJZ macrumors 68020

    JesterJJZ

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    Jul 21, 2004
    #15
    SATA was never meant to be external. Let eSATA die already...
     
  15. cube thread starter macrumors G5

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    May 10, 2004
    #16
    I have to commend Dell for putting eSATAp in laptops years ago already.
     
  16. Pitmaster macrumors member

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    Jul 13, 2014
  17. ColdCase macrumors 68030

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    Feb 10, 2008
    Location:
    NH
    #18
    Most prosumers and pros do if they do a lot of hard drive stuff with or without encryption. USB3 just can't cut it with its command set limitations and protocol inefficiencies. I use eSATA as much as I can, especially for any software RAID applications.
     
  18. Pitmaster macrumors member

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    Jul 13, 2014
    #19
    Pro here. Haven't used eSATA in 4 years running a high end post production facility. All USB 3, RAID and Thunderbolt. But to each their own.
     
  19. cube thread starter macrumors G5

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    May 10, 2004
    #21
  20. ColdCase macrumors 68030

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    NH
    #22
    A lot of eSATA drives come in here containing secure video for processing. Rarely see USB3. Although there was a burp maybe a year ago, but the customers experienced all the performance and reliability disadvantages and went back to eSATA or moved to Thunderbolt. eSATA is so much better than USB3 when pushing the envelope and have deadlines to make... and is less money than thunderbolt for this purpose. Perhaps eSATA may be pushed out by thunderbolt eventually, but the customers want eSATA here. You know, we see more firewire than USB 3.
     
  21. cube thread starter macrumors G5

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    May 10, 2004
    #23
    Do you know if indeed there's no UNMAP with a Mac and a UASP enclosure?
     
  22. grayskyz macrumors regular

    grayskyz

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2008
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #24
    If anyone knows the answer to this, I'm interested in finding out the answer as well!

    And for the record, I do video/photography as a profession and I've recently jumped on the Caldigit bandwagon. I have a T3 and AvPro and have been pretty impressed with the speed and quality over all.
     
  23. dyn macrumors 68030

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    Aug 8, 2009
    Location:
    .nl
    #25
    The problem lies in people not knowing what TRIM actually is. People seem to be thinking that TRIM is crucial for an ssd to work which isn't true. There is also GC and both are only used for clearing out NAND cells that aren't used any more. Having TRIM on an external SSD is just a very big bonus imo.

    eSATA is very hard to find, normal SATA devices however...so what we're seeing are a lot of products aimed at interfacing with SATA (USB2/USB3/Thunderbolt-SATA docks). Manufacturers are getting rid of their eSATA ports; take a good look at the various models (the Dell Optiplex series is a good one: used to have eSATA, now comes without it).

    IIRC StarTech has some kind of Thunderbolt-eSATA adapter (unpowered) but that's it really.
     

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