Biggest problem with iOS

VinegarTasters

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Nov 20, 2007
261
7
The biggest problem with iOS and iOS devices is the glue between iOS devices. Namely the requirement that the service of iCloud be the only way to sync between devices. For example, if I have one iPhone, I get 5 Gigabytes for backup, email etc. If I get an iPad, I would get 5 GB for that device. HOWEVER, I would need to create different Apple ID accounts for all my iOS devices, AND ONLY THEN do I get 5GB per device. If I use the same Apple ID for all the devices then ONLY 5 GB is used for ALL devices!

What is the problem with this scenario? YOU NEED to use SAME APPLE ID to sync mail and calendar, photos, videos, etc between devices. Which means if you have more than 1 iOS device, there are NOT ENOUGH STORAGE to do backups. YOU CAN'T SYNC unless you forgo backups, because backups will use up all of your 5GB if you use more than 1 iOS device.

Why can't they make it so that you can get 5GB PER iOS device, instead of forcing 5GB per Apple ID? This means everyone will be forced to use different Apple ID per iOS device in order to get enough free storage to do basic mail, backups, etc. Different IDs means NONE of those devices will sync with each other, making iCloud USELESS because you need same Apple ID across all devices for sync of Apps, Music, etc to work automatically and correctly.

So what is happening to people who buy more than 1 iOS device? They end up not using the same Apple ID, so iCloud is useless. Or they end up not doing backups or email (because not enough space, rendering all iCloud services useless because once you reach 5GB, all syncing operations halt).

I think they should allow an Apple ID (and associated iCloud) account to have more than 5GB, specifically, 5GB PER iOS device added to the same Apple ID account. So if you have 5 iOS devices, you can use one Apple ID that has 25GB of storage.
 

GreyOS

macrumors 68040
Apr 12, 2012
3,265
1,550
Sounds like a good idea, have you suggested it to apple? I suspect at some point they will bump up the storage for each price band (inc. free) just as storage in general becomes cheaper and expectations rise, device camera megapixels rise etc.. Then would be a good opportunity for this.
 

sjinsjca

macrumors 68020
Oct 30, 2008
2,057
395
I can see Apple's logic:

Each of your devices is a window to your data in the cloud. In this theory, you wouldn't need more space just because you buy a new device.

In practice, it would be appreciated if Apple would give 5GB per device.
 

C DM

macrumors Sandy Bridge
Oct 17, 2011
47,469
16,000
I can see Apple's logic:

Each of your devices is a window to your data in the cloud. In this theory, you wouldn't need more space just because you buy a new device.

In practice, it would be appreciated if Apple would give 5GB per device.
That doesn't seem to account for basic backups though.
 

jabingla2810

macrumors 68020
Oct 15, 2008
2,269
935
I use the same Apple ID to back up my iPad, iPod and iPhone.

I have 3.2GB of of free space out of my 5GB.

I just turn off the camera roll from the iCloud backup. All photo's are backed up to my Mac anyway, so no problem.
 

gngan

macrumors 68000
Jan 1, 2009
1,824
70
MacWorld
It's good to have more storage but Apple is a company that wants to make money. You can buy more storage if you want. I use my Mac for backup and get every sync so I do not need to buy more storage and complain.
 

bransoj

macrumors 6502a
Jul 31, 2013
931
216
I use the Skydrive app to back up my photos...get 7Gb i think it is for free and it works in the background doing it. One less thing you need to back up to iCloud.
 

sjinsjca

macrumors 68020
Oct 30, 2008
2,057
395
That doesn't seem to account for basic backups though.
Actually it does. If all your data is in iCloud (and apps are not backed-up; they're downloaded fresh in a restore), then each device would house mostly the same data, and backing-up five devices would take little more iCloud space than backing up one-- just enough more to reflect specific device configurations and the occasional app that's available on some devices but not others.

But, of course, not all your data is in iCloud. It's a lovely vision but doesn't match reality.

IMHO, we pay enough for our iDevices that we should get 5GB per item, or actually more.
 

Stuke00

macrumors 68000
Oct 11, 2011
1,674
74
Collinsville,IL
Actually it does. If all your data is in iCloud (and apps are not backed-up; they're downloaded fresh in a restore), then each device would house mostly the same data, and backing-up five devices would take little more iCloud space than backing up one-- just enough more to reflect specific device configurations and the occasional app that's available on some devices but not others.

But, of course, not all your data is in iCloud. It's a lovely vision but doesn't match reality.

IMHO, we pay enough for our iDevices that we should get 5GB per item, or actually more.
If you have more than 1 iPhone on your iCloud account... photos and videos on each device can add up to A LOT.
 

Armen

macrumors 604
Apr 30, 2013
7,375
2,207
Los Angeles
How DARE Apple cut the cord and give me a cloud solution so I don't have to rely on iTunes anymore for my backup!

How DARE they only give me 5GB for FREE and charge me if I need more!

:rolleyes:
 

takeshi74

macrumors 601
Feb 9, 2011
4,970
68
So what is happening to people who buy more than 1 iOS device? They end up not using the same Apple ID, so iCloud is useless.
My wife has multiple devices and uses the same ID on them with no problems. If you need more space then get more space.
 

7enderbender

macrumors 6502a
May 11, 2012
511
11
North East US
How DARE Apple cut the cord and give me a cloud solution so I don't have to rely on iTunes anymore for my backup!

How DARE they only give me 5GB for FREE and charge me if I need more!

:rolleyes:

Not quite. I think we can all agree that Apple does NOTHING for free. Neither should they. However, they make it look as if the Apple devices - we all pay a pretty penny for - come with included (that's not "free") storage. Fine print and experience though in fact turn out being that you get the 5GB only for the first device and the 5GB from every other device go out of the window if you want to use the stuff as designed. So it really borders on false advertising to some degree. I think it's a legitimate question and criticism.
 

Armen

macrumors 604
Apr 30, 2013
7,375
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Los Angeles
Not quite. I think we can all agree that Apple does NOTHING for free. Neither should they. However, they make it look as if the Apple devices - we all pay a pretty penny for - come with included (that's not "free") storage. Fine print and experience though in fact turn out being that you get the 5GB only for the first device and the 5GB from every other device go out of the window if you want to use the stuff as designed. So it really borders on false advertising to some degree. I think it's a legitimate question and criticism.
The only people that I know who run out of iCloud storage space are those with 1000's of photos. If you insist on storing photos on the cloud you have to pay for space. Otherwise, 5GB of space is plenty of space to backup multiple devices.
 

spooky2k

macrumors 6502a
Apr 14, 2008
933
198
California
I totally agree. I think the iCloud should at least match the size of device and then expand as you buy more devices and register them to that iCloud. Each account could have 1 iPad, 1 iPhone, etc etc. Creating a family (master) account to manage all of a families IDs would be super helpful too. With companies like Flickr offering 1TB and Box offering 50GB (until the end of January anyway), I don't see why aApple couldn't do this.

Cloud storage to be able to fully backup a full device that you bought would be a simple solution that would be very 'Apple'.
 

BaldiMac

macrumors 604
Jan 24, 2008
7,404
5,799
With companies like Flickr offering 1TB and Box offering 50GB (until the end of January anyway), I don't see why aApple couldn't do this.
FWIW, Apple also includes around a terabyte of free photo storage through shared photo streams.
 

Altis

macrumors 68030
Sep 10, 2013
2,987
4,421
The only people that I know who run out of iCloud storage space are those with 1000's of photos. If you insist on storing photos on the cloud you have to pay for space. Otherwise, 5GB of space is plenty of space to backup multiple devices.
Rather than responding to the poster you quoted and addressing their valid points, you're dismissing the validity based on the idea that 5GB is "plenty" in your opinion.

I think some people around here own some Apple stocks... ;)

I personally am not affected as I don't bother with clouds, but I can empathize with those who are affected by the marketing scheme.
 

Armen

macrumors 604
Apr 30, 2013
7,375
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Los Angeles
Rather than responding to the poster you quoted and addressing their valid points, you're dismissing the validity based on the idea that 5GB is "plenty" in your opinion.

I think some people around here own some Apple stocks... ;)

I personally am not affected as I don't bother with clouds, but I can empathize with those who are affected by the marketing scheme.
I do not think iCloud was ever intended to be an unlimited photo storage solution. Aside from photos 5GB of plenty of space for backing up devices.

I have my iphone and iPad backed up and still have 4.8GB free in my personal iCloud. Probably because I DONT have 1000 photos in my camera roll.
 
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Altis

macrumors 68030
Sep 10, 2013
2,987
4,421
I do not think iCloud was ever intended to be an unlimited photo storage solution. Aside from photos 5GB of plenty of space for backing up devices.

I have my iphone and iPad backed up and still have 4.8GB free in my personal iCloud. Probably because I DONT have 1000 photos in my camera roll.
Where did you get the idea of "unlimited photo storage solution"? Has anyone mentioned that?

OP is just making a valid point that it's fair to give everyone the same 5 GB per device, regardless of whether or not they already have one and an AppleID.

And again, 5 GB might be enough for you because you aren't using it in all its capabilities advertised. I know I'm not, because I avoid the "cloud' like the plague.
 

Armen

macrumors 604
Apr 30, 2013
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Los Angeles
Where did you get the idea of "unlimited photo storage solution"? Has anyone mentioned that?

OP is just making a valid point that it's fair to give everyone the same 5 GB per device, regardless of whether or not they already have one and an AppleID.

And again, 5 GB might be enough for you because you aren't using it in all its capabilities advertised. I know I'm not, because I avoid the "cloud' like the plague.
Here is the iCloud back up list directly from Apple.

Photos and videos in your Camera Roll - The more photos you keep on your phone and in the cloud the more space it uses (assuming you have photo stream on).

Device settings - This is what 100KB? Its just settings

App data -Not a lot of apps have an option to store data in the cloud and the ones that do barely use any space (saved games go here)

Home screen and app organization - Again, not much data here.

iMessage, text (SMS), and MMS messages - If you have 10 years of SMS messages saved on your phone (like some people have) than sure this can take up tons of space.

Ringtones - I don't even know why this is mentioned since you download it from iTunes

Visual Voicemail - 10 years of voicemails saved? sure, takes up space.


Now do you understand? Majority of storage is used by photos, videos, text messages (if held on to for years). Again, 5GB of space is PLENTY for everything else.

solution: don't store photos in iCloud. Import them on to your PC and store them safely somewhere else.

for reference: http://support.apple.com/kb/PH12519?viewlocale=en_US

We can go back and forth all day on this if you like and not agree :) It seems you are under the impression that the cloud backs up your entire phone. It does not.
 

Altis

macrumors 68030
Sep 10, 2013
2,987
4,421
Here is the iCloud back up list directly from Apple.

Photos and videos in your Camera Roll - The more photos you keep on your phone and in the cloud the more space it uses (assuming you have photo stream on).

Device settings - This is what 100KB? Its just settings

App data -Not a lot of apps have an option to store data in the cloud and the ones that do barely use any space (saved games go here)

Home screen and app organization - Again, not much data here.

iMessage, text (SMS), and MMS messages - If you have 10 years of SMS messages saved on your phone (like some people have) than sure this can take up tons of space.

Ringtones - I don't even know why this is mentioned since you download it from iTunes

Visual Voicemail - 10 years of voicemails saved? sure, takes up space.


Now do you understand? Majority of storage is used by photos, videos, text messages (if held on to for years). Again, 5GB of space is PLENTY for everything else.

solution: don't store photos in iCloud. Import them on to your PC and store them safely somewhere else.

for reference: http://support.apple.com/kb/PH12519?viewlocale=en_US

We can go back and forth all day on this if you like and not agree :) It seems you are under the impression that the cloud backs up your entire phone. It does not.
Where did I say that? Why do you keep putting words in my mouth? I didn't claim that it backs up the entire phone. You did the same thing in your last post.

None of your reply even applies to OP's point.

OP's point: If the purchase of a device awards 5 GB of cloud space, it would be fair and logical to award 5 GB for each additional device (which it does, provided you don't combine them).

Your point: If 5 GB isn't enough, don't store so many photos/videos.

"Now do you understand?"

I agree that photos/videos takes up all the space. OP isn't looking for suggestions to reduce cloud usage. You can argue that 5 GB is sufficient, as your tendency is to defend Apple's decisions, all you like... but that's not the topic OP presented. It's about the allocation of 5 GB per device, but not being able to combine them to one ID.
 

Armen

macrumors 604
Apr 30, 2013
7,375
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Los Angeles
Where did I say that? Why do you keep putting words in my mouth? I didn't claim that it backs up the entire phone. You did the same thing in your last post.

None of your reply even applies to OP's point.

OP's point: If the purchase of a device awards 5 GB of cloud space, it would be fair and logical to award 5 GB for each additional device (which it does, provided you don't combine them).

Your point: If 5 GB isn't enough, don't store so many photos/videos.

"Now do you understand?"

I agree that photos/videos takes up all the space. OP isn't looking for suggestions to reduce cloud usage. You can argue that 5 GB is sufficient, as your tendency is to defend Apple's decisions, all you like... but that's not the topic OP presented. It's about the allocation of 5 GB per device, but not being able to combine them to one ID.
From the OP "Which means if you have more than 1 iOS device, there are NOT ENOUGH STORAGE to do backups. YOU CAN'T SYNC unless you forgo backups, because backups will use up all of your 5GB if you use more than 1 iOS device."

The OP's statement is just not true unless he has tons of photos/videos stored in his camera roll on all his devices. If that's the case he needs to purchase more space.

Let me put some things in perspective.

I have 8GB of data on my iPhone 5
I have 12GB of data on my iPad Mini

My iCloud backup size for BOTH of these devices combined is 200MB. The backup does not include everything. If it did my total usage should have been 20GB.

So in conclusion, 5GB of storage is PLENTY of space for the average user.

Apple isn't using clever marketing to make people buy more space. People who need more space have the option to pay for it. If they don't want to pay they need to start importing photos/videos into their computers and freeing up space in the cloud.
 
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Altis

macrumors 68030
Sep 10, 2013
2,987
4,421
From the OP "Which means if you have more than 1 iOS device, there are NOT ENOUGH STORAGE to do backups. YOU CAN'T SYNC unless you forgo backups, because backups will use up all of your 5GB if you use more than 1 iOS device."

The OP's statement is just not true because your entire phone is NOT backed up to the cloud when you do a backup. (Proof: I have 8GB of data on my iPhone and 10GB of my iPad and my icloud backup is only 200MB for both combined)

- The only exception where the OP has a valid point is if he has years of e-mails, years of text messages and tons of photos ALSO stored in the cloud. If that's the case he would need to purchase additional space because his storage habits do not represent the masses.

Companies don't stay in business by giving out free storage. Probably the same reason why Dropbox and Skydrive only gives you 2GB of free storage and anything more than that you have to purchase more.
Alright, I see your points and are well considered. I still concede that 5GB of storage could be allocated resulting from each additional qualifying device, as it effectively is the same to the company as a new user buying the device. It's also not really "giving away" free storage considering you're buying a device that gives you 5 GB of storage... only you can't use it on your existing ID.

I'm not trying to get on your case ;) I also think 5 GB is quite a bit for backup... but there are a lot of people trying to move away from having backup computers altogether, which would mean more space is needed for storing photos and videos as their iDevices may be their only form of computing.

How nice it would be if they supported file systems and external drives... but alas, you'll need another brand for that.
 

Armen

macrumors 604
Apr 30, 2013
7,375
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Los Angeles
Alright, I see your points and are well considered. I still concede that 5GB of storage could be allocated resulting from each additional qualifying device, as it effectively is the same to the company as a new user buying the device. It's also not really "giving away" free storage considering you're buying a device that gives you 5 GB of storage... only you can't use it on your existing ID.

I'm not trying to get on your case ;) I also think 5 GB is quite a bit for backup... but there are a lot of people trying to move away from having backup computers altogether, which would mean more space is needed for storing photos and videos as their iDevices may be their only form of computing.

How nice it would be if they supported file systems and external drives... but alas, you'll need another brand for that
.
Now we are seeing eye to eye. :D

I don't think iCloud was ever intended to be a cloud backup/storage solution like Google Drive, MS Skydrive or Dropbox because:

- like you stated there is no file system in place. It's very vague :confused:
- Storage costs less elsewhere.

The OP needs to seriously just move his photos/videos elsewhere and his problem would be resolved.