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Discussion in 'iOS Apps' started by return7, Dec 6, 2010.
Completely rewritten and in testing now. This is just to whet your appetites a bit.
You may wet my whistle but never my appetite.
Will this be a free update or pay? I want to buy BillMinder but don't want to have to pay again when the update is released so should I buy now or wait?
This is a completely new application but it does allow one to import their data from the old version.
So does that mean if I bought it now and wanted to upgrade to the new version I'd have to buy it again?
What about the versions we have already paid for??? Will they continue to be serviced or they just going to be left flapping in the wind???
I paid for the original version and it continuous to transfer itself to the lite version, I reported the bug and was ignored and my name removed from your beta testing after months of faithful testing and reporting.
I would highly recommend that no one purchases the original as you will have to pay for this new release. I highly disapprove of this business model as developers are trying to pick up new business from old reliable customers that will now have to buy it all over again. Guess its time to move to the competition since I have to pay again
Hi SFC Archer,
With all due respect, we're actually simultaneously launch another bug fix update for version 2. That would be our 25th update for BillMinder 1-2.x, which we think has been and remains a great value for our users. For the $1-2 our users paid we've put out 24 updates, including BillMinder 2 itself and push notifications before anyone else in the bill reminding space and recently made said notifications free to all of our paid users. I didn't mention that because this thread is specifically a teaser for BillMinder 3.
Like other software companies that prefer to continue existing, we will eventually have to deprecate version 2 as it's difficult to maintain two code bases with limited resources. We obviously don't require anyone to upgrade to version 3. If the App Store provided a way to do paid upgrades, we would offer a discount on the new version for existing BillMinder 2 users but this is not currently possible.
We want to make BillMinder 3 the best product it can be and a new code base was the best way to do that. It allowed us to redesign pretty much everything with ease of use in mind and add features we've wanted to add for a long time but couldn't in the old version. We believe folks won't mind spending a couple of bucks for a few hundred hours of our hard work if BillMinder can serve their needs.
As for the removing you from a beta list -- we are no longer using external beta testers so we removed those forums and all testers. We didn't just remove you. Also, I've explained to you on a few occasions that we don't test in jailbroken environments and that modifying the app bundle in any way will trigger the Lite mode. We don't have a workaround for that right now but we'll see what we can do in this upcoming update.
What will the new version do that the current one doesn't? Also will the current app continue to receive push notifications and just not be updated anymore?
A lot. Aside from genuinely being easier to use and faster in many ways, the welcome screenshot above shows some of it. A list of some of the bigger things:
- Sync between devices (no extra charge), which doubles as backup
- Upcoming view
- Local notifications (no push needed)
- Custom reports (pie or line graphs with AirPrint and email as PDF support)
More screenshots attached to show some of what I'm talking about. These are screenshots of the app actually running in the simulator with real data.
We have no immediate plans to take down the BillMinder 2 push server so yes, for the foreseeable future the push server will stay up.
Do you have an eta on when the app will be in the app store?
A developer comes here and gives us a preview and what happens? whines and complaints.
Spending 99 cents on an app does not entitle to lifetime updates!
I understand that developers spend many hours on updates and adding new features. It's reasonable to expect to be charged for a new version. Otherwise what is the incentive for a developer to continue enhancing the application past the first version?
I have bought other bill tracking apps and finally settled on Billminder. The retina update and free push took a while but it did come. The other bill tracking apps that I bought have not updated to retina graphics, have no push, or the recurring function is unreliable.
The new BillMinder 3 looks very clean and poslished. Looking forward to it!
I'll gladly pay for this new version. I love BillMinder and recommend it to anyone who asks for an app of this nature. And I can't believe that people complain so much over something that costs a dollar. Seriously, every one of you wastes a dollar on frivolous crap every day. The guy isn't asking for $20 for the app.
We will be submitting within a few days but it's up to Apple at that point.
Will current BillMinder owners get an update in the App Store (both in iTunes and on the iPhone) alerting them to the new version's release, or will we just have to search for it?
Since it's a new app and there's not currently a way to do an "upgrade" between two apps on the App Store, we plan to let existing BillMinder customers know via an in-app message. As always, plans can change. At the very least I can post here.
...And there in lies the problem...when do you notify people of changes so that they do not pay for stuff??? You still have BillMinder 2 listed for sale in iTunes knowing that you have a new release coming, what are those clients suppose to do, buy it twice in less then 30 days? Under Top In App Purchases it still lists Push Notifications as .99 while in the description it does note that it is Free...Confusing at best.
You do have a point with not being able to offer discounts to previous owners a discount due to Apples selfishness so I will have to concede that aspect. It is not your fault that Apple does not allow developers the option to reward loyal customers of specific apps and developers. I also agree that to stay in business you must make changes and keep with the times and options that are now available and knowing that you would have taken care of current customers if the option was available makes a big difference.
SIDE NOTE to the "I am perfect posters": Money is not an issue to me and I have purchased all Apps, upgrades that I have beta tested for so those of you "fan boys" that keep posting hog wash do not know what you are talking about. I paid for this app long before I was a beta tester and NEVER asked return7 for a thing. So take your little goody to shoes posts somewhere else while I address MY opinion on something you have no clue about. I will also pay for the new release when it comes out...does not mean I do not have the right to express my opinion!
Now, back to answering the reply...Regarding your last paragraph, Thank You for the email, note, thank you or something, that none of us never got that you were not using beta's anymore. You all just turned us off like we were a light switch and even when I tried to live chat with you, you did not answer other then to kick me from live chat...really great way to treat everyone that helped you. In reference to jailbreaking...I have 99 apps on my iPhone, I do NOT mess with Apps and only theme my iPhone as you very well know. I have never, do not condone and will viciously fight against cracked apps or the mention of any other app that supports it. This is what I was "trying" to explain when you kicked me from live chat. Needless to say...NOT one other app out of the remaining 98 turns to a "lite" version due to my themed iPhone...ONLY yours. So, that is what I was trying to address and wonder if 3 will do the same because if you are the only developer that has apps that wont work on jailbroke phones then jailbreakers need to be aware before they purchase it again.
Sorry if the truth hurts and I tried it the other way but we "were no longer needed". Thanks for the opportunity to help you and two build your business and hope that you can continue to stay at the top...effective communications may be beneficial someday.
Did the app turn to the lite version simply because it was on a jailbroken iPhone? I've used BillMinder on my jailbroken and themed iPhone with no issues since I bought it so I guess I'm not clear as to what made the app change.
Neither am I, this is why I "was" trying to troubleshoot with the developer. For the last two iSO versions 4.0 and 4.1, I have had BillMinder switch from the paid version to the lite version without warning. During my install of 4.0 I have completely uninstalled, removed the app from iTunes, synced then reinstall and it looks and works fine for a few days and then all of a sudden it turns into BillMinder Lite.
When 4.1 was released I upgraded as a new phone so that everything was fresh. Removed BillMinder from iTunes and the iPhone and downloaded fresh "paid" version. Set up phone and again, after a few days it switched from Paid version to Lite version. I reiterate, I have not touched, altered or accessed this app other then through the Homescreen to check on my bills. This is the ONLY app that does this. Even when I was beta testing the app it did not do this but seemed to start when I stopped receiving beta updates.
My only guess is that it could be related to the adhoc and ipsw versions that I was working but because I am not a developer, I can not validate, verify or confirm this and why only with this app? I actively beta for 3 other apps right now and it does not happen.
I am just concerned that the new version will do the same thing and obviously I do not want to not be able to fully use the app if I am enjoying my jailbroke phone.
That is quite strange. I don't think I've ever used BillMinder on a non-jailbroken device, and it's never switched me to the Lite version.
I guess that would be very very annoying. I would be pretty pissed if that was happening to me. Now I understand why you're hesitant with the new app.
Most of that isn't our fault. And we actually did thank all of our testers. On top of that, we thanked our most valuable testers, you included, with a small iTunes gift card for your time helping us track down bugs in BillMinder 2.x. I suppose it's easy to forget that.
Again, the only way we're aware of that BillMinder 2 could revert to the Lite version is if the app bundle has been modified somehow. I'm not suggesting you've done this intentionally or pirated the app but something on your phone has modified the bundle *some how*.
And no, we don't use the same anti-piracy stuff in BillMinder 3 so that behavior will not occur.
Software companies don't pull old versions before the new ones are out because it doesn't make sense to. At that point we wouldn't be able to support the app at all. The reason we will leave the old version up afterward, for a time, is to make sure we can provide fixes to existing users. That's clearly for our users' benefit. You're free to think it's because we're greedy, but that's not the case.
Apple hasn't added upgrade functionality because of resources (adding more developers doesn't mean stuff gets done faster -- at least not in a linear fashion). It's not because they're "selfish."
Edit: And I'm sorry you're upset and having trouble but I've already said we will try to change the behavior in the next version. That's about all I can do.
That's because you haven't tried to modify the app bundle. It's literally that simple.
It was not forgotten and was greatly appreciated although not asked for. Nor was the time frame that you gave it to us which was far before we stopped receiving updates to test, then all of a sudden nothing. It also does not answer why you failed to respond to chat when I was trying to fix this current issue and you just plain cut me off. It was just totally shocking to receive the appreciated gift card and then no word, no notice, not even a comment that that you had changed to internal testing.
Again, i do not and have not used a pirated anything. You have the records of not only paid apps, but the beta test versions you sent so what benefit would I gain by doing something illegal which I am tired of being accused of doing. Your bundle has never been touched or accessed in any way shape or form.
Not saying you should pull your app, what I am saying is that you should at least lower the price of a soon to be replaced version and/or inform potential customers that there will be a new version released soon. What is currently in the app store is deceiving and I guarantee will produce some very very unhappy customers when they buy today and have to buy again next week or month when a fresh new version comes out. That is totally wrong and bad business treating your future version 3 customers that way. I stated that I understood and accepted your last paragraph. I know that it is not your fault and accept the fact that to get a better version of a great app, I and other previous customers will have to buy it...NOT A PROBLEM, I will be the FIRST one to purchase it as long as it DOES NOT do what this version is doing to me. Stating that you have made some changes gives me hope that it will work fine when purchased. I would hope that you still have something in place to thwart thieves and app crackers.
I look forward to the new release and hope that there are no issues or bugs because I obviously will not open myself to be shut out again. Good Luck and hope your current Business Model works for you with minimal negative impact.
So you're suggesting a message at the top of the description? That's easy.
We don't know who buys our apps unless they contact us first. I know you don't pirate the app. But really, something is causing that issue and it's pretty much impossible to say what that could be. It could be as simple as a third party app that switches out icons, for example.
And it's pretty simple to find pirated copies of even the latest version of BillMinder so we're changing our strategy all together with BillMinder 3, which means you won't run into this issue with it.
Edit: If you recall, the tweetie developer received a lot of grief for releasing tweetie 2 as a new app. Everyone was up in arms but at the end of the day it was a great update and I paid for both the original and the new version. Now it's free but I don't feel cheated because I got a lot of use out of it for very little money (something like $6? for two years+).