Blackmagic eGPU Pro Discontinued

[SteveW928]

The only thing wrong with the BlackMagic eGPUs were the price.

The only people willing to pay for it are those that require absolute silence. Other people are better served with the Razer Core X.

Yes, but to those people (like me), that is an incredibly (ie. deal breaker) important thing.

Maybe someday one of these custom case makers will get a clue and work on noise level... we'll see.

And, then as rob said, you've got the issue of stability and a standardized component. I don't have experience with other eGPUs to know how important that is... but from reading eGPU.io threads for a couple years now, it doesn't seem uncommon to have issues.

And... isn't this pretty similar to the argument we've heard for decades about why a Mac isn't worth it?

 

[- rob -]

I like the silence also, but the build quality on the BM is also excellent

For all the talk about upgradability, there’s just not a ton of value in the delta between the turnkey blackmagic options and an enclosure / card install.

If you put the financials together around resale of either option and the liklihood of wanting to upgrade the enclosure worth the card, performance benefits are at best a wash given stability and noise.

Especially now that you can get the RX580 unit for a low price on eBay, it’s an uphill argument for build your own.

 

[arvinsim]

Yes, but to those people (like me), that is an incredibly (ie. deal breaker) important thing.

Maybe someday one of these custom case makers will get a clue and work on noise level... we'll see.

And, then as rob said, you've got the issue of stability and a standardized component. I don't have experience with other eGPUs to know how important that is... but from reading eGPU.io threads for a couple years now, it doesn't seem uncommon to have issues.

And... isn't this pretty similar to the argument we've heard for decades about why a Mac isn't worth it?

Looking at how the Blackmagic eGPU sold, it's safe to say that more people value price and performance per dollar rather than silence and stability.

Especially now that you can get the RX580 unit for a low price on eBay, it’s an uphill argument for build your own.

I don't get this argument. If you have a DIY, you can always choose to go buy RX580 for cheap or the 5700XT if you want performance. You don't have this choice with Blackmagic eGPU.

 

[poematik13]

Aside from being solidly built (not like a DIY one), dead silent (not like a DIY one), and also doubles as a TB3 hub (not like a DIY one), I think the asking prices were mostly fair, albeit the Vega 56 one should have been a 64 if they wanted $1200 for it.

They need to relaunch these with the 5700 and 5700XT that's currently in the new iMac

 

[- rob -]

Looking at how the Blackmagic eGPU sold, it's safe to say that more people value price and performance per dollar rather than silence and stability.

This point presumes Mac users overwhelmingly chose to build eGPUs. I think they just chose not to purchase them but I would like to see data regardless.

I don't get this argument. If you have a DIY, you can always choose to go buy RX580 for cheap or the 5700XT if you want performance. You don't have this choice with Blackmagic eGPU.

Maybe you could explain the use cases you’re advocating for. Are you needing to do local ML for example?

The reason I ask is if look at the RX580 right now it is still in the top 10 most used cards on Steam. You can catch a high frame rate of Dota 2 on max settings on the XDR Pro’s native resolution.

If you watch the used BM Pros on eBay they are being sold by people who used them to pre-res television shows. Despite there being more powerful cards on the market, the Vega is performing for professional video production, (which also demands stability the DIYs don’t provide.)

So it’s not like the BM options that were on the market didn’t offer some reasonable amount of range.

Another important point, which I’ve made before, is that the option of assembly of an eGPU and card carries the risk of the enclosure itself losing value and becoming outdated.

Most of the enclosures in the eGPU.io top ten came out in 2019.

So after three years of use you probably will also be wondering if there’s a quieter, or otherwise better enclosure to go with your brand new card you want to buy.

If you end up wanting to upgrade both you’ve just done the same thing as if you had bought a Blackmagic in the first place.

In trying to recoup value on craigslist or eBay, you’re also then in a position to present the combined hardware that is known to have stability issues even when built carefully in a good light. With the BM the product’s reliability stands on its own.

I suspect when liquidation price is taken into account diy eGPU over BM price / performance also does not look so rosy.

One more point is that the BM products were almost universally panned online by reviewers and gamers over the points you’ve made, price / performance and upgradability.

As mentioned above this is the same argument made against Apple products in general going back to Balmer’s early quote.

I’d guess satisfaction score on the BM eGPU products from those that bought them is high. And this matters a lot in this Pre-Apple Silicon era where graphics boost is helpful across everything below the newest iMac and Mac Pro.

Ultimately, I think the release of an upgraded BM will say more about the value of this market and appreciation of the product performance.

 

[SteveW928]

I like the silence also, but the build quality on the BM is also excellent
...

Yeah, the build quality is just stellar. It's like the difference between $50 Walmart blender and a Vitamix.
People can argue all they want that other options provide a better bargain or more flexibility. Those are fair points. But, the BM is just in another league on quality, silence, stability, etc.

It may very well be the highest quality product I've ever owned.

Looking at how the Blackmagic eGPU sold, it's safe to say that more people value price and performance per dollar rather than silence and stability.

Sure, but isn't that almost always the way it is? Most people buy based on price or popularity, and don't care as much about quality. You have a point on performance, depending on your use-case. If you are a gamer or a 3D artist with specific GPU needs, some of the other cases will beat the BM, no doubt.

The reason I ask is if look at the RX580 right now it is still in the top 10 most used cards on Steam. You can catch a high frame rate of Dota 2 on max settings on the XDR Pro’s native resolution.

If you watch the used BM Pros on eBay they are being sold by people who used them to pre-res television shows. Despite there being more powerful cards on the market, the Vega is performing for professional video production, (which also demands stability the DIYs don’t provide.)

Yes, this is a very important point (or a couple of them) people often miss when talking about the RX580, and calling it old, slow, etc. Yes, that's true if we're purely talking production dates and who wins the benchmarks. But, like most data, you have to be careful about such graphs, so you show the whole bars in scale and then compare to some more base-level options.

When you do that, you get a tiny bar for any of the iGPUs and such, and then huge bars for RX580 and newer, higher end cards, where the higher end ones stick up even further. But, within that whole context, its like you're getting 80% of the way there with the RX580, and then paying hundreds or thousands more for the extra edge or certain features.

If you're doing certain things, that's well worth it. You can convert that extra performance into dollars. Otherwise, it is probably just bragging rights. I was considering the Pro until I saw that. I'm not currently making enough $ to justify it, and the RX580 does what I need it to do. When I need more GPU, I can just buy a Pro (hopefully a new 5700 based one) and sell my current one (or move it to another machine).

And, while it isn't my field, yes, my understanding is that for video work, you might not need certain aspects of the real high-end GPUs.

So after three years of use you probably will also be wondering if there’s a quieter, or otherwise better enclosure to go with your brand new card you want to buy.

Yeah, I wonder about that. TB3 should hold up fairly well, but eventually something faster will come along and these cases will be looked at like the TB2 ones are now. It isn't likely you'll just keep shoving the latest GPU in them for a decade or more.

BUT... for someone who makes their living with 3D or a serious gamer, I can see the attraction of a case you can keep putting that latest card in. The 3D pros might ditch a 6mo old card if they can put in a newer one that gives them an edge.

 

[jagooch]

Looking at how the Blackmagic eGPU sold, it's safe to say that more people value price and performance per dollar rather than silence and stability.




I don't get this argument. If you have a DIY, you can always choose to go buy RX580 for cheap or the 5700XT if you want performance. You don't have this choice with Blackmagic eGPU.

Good points. In my case, I wanted to try the BM first, but it there was an estimated 10-12 week wait for a new one, and at the time none for sale on ebay or Craigslist. But I could get the Razer Core X in 2 days from Amazon. Since I needed an eGPU right away, I want with the Razor.

The enclosure and video card (Radeon RX 5700 XT ) were easy to source. It took some research and $$$ to get bidirectional DP to TB3 cables to go with my Logitech monitors.

But, it works. The enclosure is on my desk and I can barely hear it. My Macbook Pro fans are louder than the enclosure GPU fans when I am doing video processing.

Overall, I'm happy with it. Some of my gripes were losing access to the built-in monitor speakers and brightness control. Also I can't use the USB C ports in my displays. Those are minor gripes.

Razor Core X - Lower cost and flexible choice of GPU. Easy in-place upgrade of GPU.

BM eGPU - quieter ( or so I have heard ) , and you can use TB3 features such as charging Macbook Pro , chaining monitors, and connecting a USB C hub. If you want to upgrade the GPU, you can sell the unit to replace it with a better BM eGPU.


From what I have read, there is a limit on how effective GPU upgrades are due to TB3 only having 4 PCIe lanes vs the 16 PCIe a 2019+ Macbook Pro will have for the dGPU.

 

[SteveW928]

But, it works. The enclosure is on my desk and I can barely hear it. My Macbook Pro fans are louder than the enclosure GPU fans when I am doing video processing.

The problem with the noise discussion, is that context is needed. Most people don't relate a dB number to something realistic, and even those charts are horribly misleading (ie. it might say it is at whispering level or talking in a room or something, but my BM is way more quiet than a whisper).

And... in my world, MacBook Pro fans are intolerably loud (and annoying!). It also depends so much on environment. In our current home, we've got a fairly busy street/road outside. With the windows open, I'm only going to hear fans if they are fairly noisy or certain pitches. (Those little fans in laptops, unfortunately, cut right through a lot of other noise.)

With the windows closed, I can hear a lot more, but even then, enough of that background noise gets in, that I wouldn't be able to do any great testing. Hopefully we'll move to a quieter place in the not too distant future.

But, in our last place (when I got the BM and did most of the testing), it was quite quiet. When the BM was cranking 100%, there was a very slight 'air movement' type sound you could hear if you knew what you were listening for.
(This description by John Siracusa of his Mac Pro is relevant, as it is a lot like he describes, only I'd never be able to hear it with headphones on... so quieter than a Mac Pro. https://overcast.fm/+R7DUKc3N4/54:55 )

Do you ever get the little fans to spin up on the GPU? I'd imagine they'd have to be somewhat similar to the MBP noise. The reason the BM is so darn quiet, is there is a huge fan spinning at very low RMPs, working with natural heat-rise in a vertical tunnel. I just don't think there is any other practical way to pull that kind of silence off.

But, that's good to hear you're happy with the noise level. I hope I get to try one some day and see for myself. Otherwise, it's just to hard to base it off descriptions, I guess. I've heard people say they can barely hear MBP fans... and I suppose if their environment is noisy, or maybe they are comparing it to a PS4 'taking off' or a gaming PC, maybe that is true in context.

From what I have read, there is a limit on how effective GPU upgrades are due to TB3 only having 4 PCIe lanes vs the 16 PCIe a 2019+ Macbook Pro will have for the dGPU.

Yes, though in the real-world (vs theoretical), it doesn't end up being that bad. I think it was either AppleInsider or Barefeats that did some extensive testing, and it was something like 8% loss worst-case, or something pretty low like that (don't quote me... I'd have to find the article again). Where it was bad (though still quite usable), was if you're trying to run the eGPU and then display on the MBP display. The data has to go out and return, so much more bottle-necked. So, unless it is some kind of portability thing, you'd absolutely want to be running any kind of eGPU as: computer --> eGPU --> display off eGPU port.

 

[jagooch]

The problem with the noise discussion, is that context is needed. Most people don't relate a dB number to something realistic, and even those charts are horribly misleading (ie. it might say it is at whispering level or talking in a room or something, but my BM is way more quiet than a whisper).

And... in my world, MacBook Pro fans are intolerably loud (and annoying!). It also depends so much on environment. In our current home, we've got a fairly busy street/road outside. With the windows open, I'm only going to hear fans if they are fairly noisy or certain pitches. (Those little fans in laptops, unfortunately, cut right through a lot of other noise.)

With the windows closed, I can hear a lot more, but even then, enough of that background noise gets in, that I wouldn't be able to do any great testing. Hopefully we'll move to a quieter place in the not too distant future.

But, in our last place (when I got the BM and did most of the testing), it was quite quiet. When the BM was cranking 100%, there was a very slight 'air movement' type sound you could hear if you knew what you were listening for.
(This description by John Siracusa of his Mac Pro is relevant, as it is a lot like he describes, only I'd never be able to hear it with headphones on... so quieter than a Mac Pro. https://overcast.fm/+R7DUKc3N4/54:55 )

Do you ever get the little fans to spin up on the GPU? I'd imagine they'd have to be somewhat similar to the MBP noise. The reason the BM is so darn quiet, is there is a huge fan spinning at very low RMPs, working with natural heat-rise in a vertical tunnel. I just don't think there is any other practical way to pull that kind of silence off.

But, that's good to hear you're happy with the noise level. I hope I get to try one some day and see for myself. Otherwise, it's just to hard to base it off descriptions, I guess. I've heard people say they can barely hear MBP fans... and I suppose if their environment is noisy, or maybe they are comparing it to a PS4 'taking off' or a gaming PC, maybe that is true in context.




Yes, though in the real-world (vs theoretical), it doesn't end up being that bad. I think it was either AppleInsider or Barefeats that did some extensive testing, and it was something like 8% loss worst-case, or something pretty low like that (don't quote me... I'd have to find the article again). Where it was bad (though still quite usable), was if you're trying to run the eGPU and then display on the MBP display. The data has to go out and return, so much more bottle-necked. So, unless it is some kind of portability thing, you'd absolutely want to be running any kind of eGPU as: computer --> eGPU --> display off eGPU port.

I don’t have a device to measure noise. All I can say is that I have to focus on listening for the GPU fan to turn my home’s air conditioning off, (that thing is loud!) in order to hear it.

Something I learned after I purchased the eGPU is that applications don’t automatically use on it.

If I open an application when the eGPU is not connected, and then connect it. The app won’t use the eGPU , I have to close and reopen it to switch it to eGPU.

There is also a option to “prefer eGPU” available in the app file info window while the eGPU is attached. I check that off for GPU-hungry apps.

Another tip is to open activity monitor and select the GPU tab. It shows which GPU each process is using. I use that whenever I notice my system getting hot (iStat Menus display).

The open source app MonitorControl on gitub works well to control brightness on eGPU connected displays.

Finally, I gave connecting my thunderbolt monitors and eGPU separately a try. The idea is I wanted to have my cake(tb display features) and eat it too, but it didn’t work out. My Macbook Pro go really hot with that setup.

like you said, Mac to eGPU to Displays is the best way to go, based on my experimentation.

 

[- rob -]

Good points. In my case, I wanted to try the BM first, but it there was an estimated 10-12 week wait for a new one, and at the time none for sale on ebay or Craigslist.

Makes sense.

A little off topic but flexibility on timing makes a big difference in purchasing. I have a pal who is really good at this and gets awesome stuff for below market pricing. He also uses a lot of notifier apps (including a custom eBay developer api-based tool) and knows the value of the stuff he’s looking at and is patient.

I think this kind of behavior is a luxury to some extent because he has the time. But that it can also pay off if you can think ahead and develop systems that give you an advantage.

But, it works. The enclosure is on my desk and I can barely hear it. My Macbook Pro fans are louder than the enclosure GPU fans when I am doing video processing.

what kind of video work do you do and what tools do you use? What type of operations are benefitting the most from the eGPU?

Overall, I'm happy with it. Some of my gripes were losing access to the built-in monitor speakers and brightness control. Also I can't use the USB C ports in my displays. Those are minor gripes.

I’m glad these don’t bother you but to me they are big takeaways for Mac users that are not often mentioned.

You did not mention stability issues. Have you had the eGPU cause any system stability problems?

 

[SteveW928]

Finally, I gave connecting my thunderbolt monitors and eGPU separately a try. The idea is I wanted to have my cake(tb display features) and eat it too, but it didn’t work out. My Macbook Pro go really hot with that setup.

like you said, Mac to eGPU to Displays is the best way to go, based on my experimentation.

Yeah, that is the best setup. If you're not running the displays off the eGPU, then you're going bi-directional with the high-bandwidth communication (TB performance hit). You're probably also pushing the iGPU of the MBP, which maybe explains the extra heat.

I think that's a side-benefit of the eGPU people don't often consider, but since you're not really using the internal GPU much, your machine will run cooler... which will probably make the CPUs throttle less.

That check-box to prefer eGPU mostly applies when you're in that mode of not connecting the displays to the eGPU. When the display(s) is connected to the eGPU, you don't really have to check that box, as it is the default behavior (your main display will be on the eGPU, so the OS uses it for the app).

 

[- rob -]

I think that's a side-benefit of the eGPU people don't often consider, but since you're not really using the internal GPU much, your machine will run cooler... which will probably make the CPUs throttle less.

This is especially important on the Macbook Air. I have a maxed 2018 and if you want to push 4k and run a lot of tools, you really can't afford to shave off CPU because the CPU is already so underpowered.

I think that this is an area where Apple Silicon can possibly really shine as it can not only deliver a faster CPU but much better graphics performance than what Intel has been able to bundle.

I'm curious how long before we see a portable with Apple Silicon that actually meets or beats performance of the the blackmagic RX580. I'm guessing it might still be a few years though. So even if you were to get an Apple Silicon based laptop, if you're running it at a workstation you're going to want that extra power anwyay.

 

[SteveW928]

... I'm curious how long before we see a portable with Apple Silicon that actually meets or beats performance of the the blackmagic RX580. I'm guessing it might still be a few years though. So even if you were to get an Apple Silicon based laptop, if you're running it at a workstation you're going to want that extra power anwyay.

Yeah, we'll have to wait and see what happens. But, I'm certainly guessing Apple's iGPU that will be in the base models will be as good or better than Intel's. Where they will probably really shine is for certain tasks, where they may very well exceed AMD or Nvidia.

But, I think unless Apple really has some tricks up their sleeve, we're still going to want dedicated GPUs from AMD/Nvidia if we're doing stuff like 3D apps or gaming. Apple's special silicon is more likely to do things like speed up video processing/encoding. I would imagine they'll have a hard time beating companies that specialize and pour all the resources into the GPU-race. (Possible, just not likely.)