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Blogger Victorious over Apple in Small Claims Case on NVIDIA GPU Failures
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Not a good day for Apple. Not a company I'm proud of today.
I hope this story gets some broad press coverage.
I hope this story gets some broad press coverage.
Why
Why in the world would this guy spend that much money on any laptop. If you need that kind of power you need a desktop to begin with. Of course a large gpu will overheat in a laptop. Did the end user max out the ram or put in more than suggested in the Apple store configuration? To me it's just common sense..guess you can sue for anything though.
Why in the world would this guy spend that much money on any laptop. If you need that kind of power you need a desktop to begin with. Of course a large gpu will overheat in a laptop. Did the end user max out the ram or put in more than suggested in the Apple store configuration? To me it's just common sense..guess you can sue for anything though.
I find the Genius Bar to be hit-or-miss. Sometimes I get someone who knows exactly how to solve my issue, and other times I get someone without a clue. Sometimes Apple replaces a device, no questions asked; other times they inexplicably dig in their heels. It's the inconsistency that might upset people.
A friend of mine has an iPhone that refused to update over WiFi. He brought it to the Genius Bar and they refused to help him, no explanation given except that his 3GS couldn't handle the update (which makes no sense).
So I can see how someone with a $4500 MacBook Pro would get upset with Apple. If you charge premium prices, that should always include premium service (which doesn't really cost Apple anything, especially in this case).
A friend of mine has an iPhone that refused to update over WiFi. He brought it to the Genius Bar and they refused to help him, no explanation given except that his 3GS couldn't handle the update (which makes no sense).
So I can see how someone with a $4500 MacBook Pro would get upset with Apple. If you charge premium prices, that should always include premium service (which doesn't really cost Apple anything, especially in this case).
I think the BTO Macs tend to have a more sketchy-ness to them. In 2005 when I ordered a BTO 15" Powerbook G4, out of the box the light up keyboard wouldn't work. So I sent it back to them to replace the logic board. They sent me back a generic logic board with none of the upgrades I had paid for. They then said I could send it back in but I declined, having already been without a computer for 4 weeks. The support tech then said I wouldn't be able to get my refund. Which blew my mind. I dropped a few choice words and eventually she said "Let me see if I can authorize a free battery to be sent to you for your trouble."
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Extreme example: So if I smoke for 40 years and don't get lung cancer does that mean smoking is safe? It's all about odds.
Same here
Thats interesting, I had the same problem with my macbook pro and the guy at the genius bar was very helpful and checked to see if nvidia had a recalls or replacement plans and they did so he took care of everything no problems and replaced my graphics card. I guess this guy had a genius that must have been uninformed because this is a known issue with the macbook pro line.
Thats interesting, I had the same problem with my macbook pro and the guy at the genius bar was very helpful and checked to see if nvidia had a recalls or replacement plans and they did so he took care of everything no problems and replaced my graphics card. I guess this guy had a genius that must have been uninformed because this is a known issue with the macbook pro line.
They fought to court because they are cheap bastards ! It's better to pay some sleazy lawyer than customer who overpaid they overpriced piece od s('il be nice) hardware.After all,they become bilion worth company because only lawyers are buying theirs product,not a regular people like u and me.
Tim Cook is going to be mighty pleased with those lawyers...
The company spends how many tens of billions annually on advertising and PR, painting themselves and their "experience" as some halcyon and perfect rub-and-tug from the moment you take out your Visa and overpay for a computer or MP3 player until the day that you die with a smug look of superiority on your face.
They are, after all, a vertically-integrated marketing company.
And here a couple of bored lawyers thought they'd squish someone in small claims court to pass the time, and it's being read about by millions on the internet.
The company spends how many tens of billions annually on advertising and PR, painting themselves and their "experience" as some halcyon and perfect rub-and-tug from the moment you take out your Visa and overpay for a computer or MP3 player until the day that you die with a smug look of superiority on your face.
They are, after all, a vertically-integrated marketing company.
And here a couple of bored lawyers thought they'd squish someone in small claims court to pass the time, and it's being read about by millions on the internet.
Someone should be fired at Apple over this. It doesn't take a degree in accounting to realize the cost/benefit ratio of fighting this in court - especially when it would cost Apple nothing to have repaired this in the first place...now they've garnered bad publicity, plus the time to pay two lawyers - and they still have to pay to make the customer "whole".
agreed. but I wonder how much of this could be summed up by general corporate bureaucracy and the confusion of policy.
Sometimes mishandling of policy happen in big corporations.
I can tell you from grim experience that Apple Stores take no notice whatsoever of consumer protection laws. My iPhone (bought unlocked in an Apple Store) broke after less than 18 months and the only option Apple gave me was to pay a lot of money to get a new one. This was in the UK, and no UK Apple Store employees seem to have even heard of the Sale of Goods Act. After a great deal of time and hassle, including emailing their CEO and COO and threatening them with a small claim, they finally offered vouchers to compensate for the repair costs I'd had to pay a third party to fix my iPhone. It worked out tolerably in the end, but it was a horrible experience getting to that point, and due to their arrogant belief that they're in the right about this, I'm quite sure they'll continue to totally ignore consumer protection laws for some time to come. We need more people who know their rights and are willing to fight instead of giving into Apple's unreasonable and unnecessary demands for more money in these situations.
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I had this issue, and knew it was the problem with the Nvidia that should have been covered. They ran the test multiple times and said it didn't show that particular problem, so I would have to pay a $300 flat fee to fix everything that was wrong, which included a Superdrive that was no longer working. I paid it.
Then, I called Apple support on the phone, and said that I had just noticed the problem I was having with my graphics card was supposed to be covered, and gave them the support article number. I was basically playing dumb.
After transferring me to different people who kept checking on the issue, they apologized and sent me a check to cover the cost of the repairs.
So not only did they fix the Nvidia issue for free, like they were supposed to, but I got a working Superdrive out of the deal as well.
By the way, I don't feel bad about this at all, even though I was a little deceptive. They know about this issue, it doesn't cost Apple anything, and their test is bogus. My laptop was doing everything that the support article said were the symptoms, whether their test showed it to be the problem or not.
Then, I called Apple support on the phone, and said that I had just noticed the problem I was having with my graphics card was supposed to be covered, and gave them the support article number. I was basically playing dumb.
After transferring me to different people who kept checking on the issue, they apologized and sent me a check to cover the cost of the repairs.
So not only did they fix the Nvidia issue for free, like they were supposed to, but I got a working Superdrive out of the deal as well.
By the way, I don't feel bad about this at all, even though I was a little deceptive. They know about this issue, it doesn't cost Apple anything, and their test is bogus. My laptop was doing everything that the support article said were the symptoms, whether their test showed it to be the problem or not.
The Apple before the iPhone seems to be a different Apple now. Maybe it's the popularity of Mac's, or maybe it's something else, but I've found customer service is hit or miss with certain genius bars/stores. However, I applaud Apple for its phone support; as a former Genius (left in 2007, just as the iPhone was released, Apple stores weren't nearly as busy then and most repairs at the bar were with iMac's and PowerMac/Mac Pro's) the tech's on the phone are very knowledgable and helpful.
This instance is an example I have seen that is becoming more frequent with Apple. It seems Apple is suing everyone, including sending in lawyers over a simple notebook issue.
Like Rex in this story, my 2008 MacBook Pro's graphics card died about 2 years after I bought it. I didn't have an extended warranty. I had no idea it was a known defect.
I took it to the excellent Techserve in NYC. They repaired it and told me that it was a known defect and that Apple would pay for it - they charged me nothing and presumably recovered their costs from Apple.
When, a year or so later, the computer had other problems, I went to an Apple Store in NYC. They told me a whole load of stuff that turned out not to be true in order to sell me various repair options. I didn't go for them in the end, happily, as I know enough to have been suspicious.
That's just one person's experience, but the lesson I've taken away is, when it comes to Apple repairs, the Apple Stores are the last places you want to go, even if Apple itself is ultimately paying. Find a good authorized repair place who know Apple's tricks.
I took it to the excellent Techserve in NYC. They repaired it and told me that it was a known defect and that Apple would pay for it - they charged me nothing and presumably recovered their costs from Apple.
When, a year or so later, the computer had other problems, I went to an Apple Store in NYC. They told me a whole load of stuff that turned out not to be true in order to sell me various repair options. I didn't go for them in the end, happily, as I know enough to have been suspicious.
That's just one person's experience, but the lesson I've taken away is, when it comes to Apple repairs, the Apple Stores are the last places you want to go, even if Apple itself is ultimately paying. Find a good authorized repair place who know Apple's tricks.
Here was my experience with this, with my 15 inch 2008 MacBook Pro, which also contains an explanation of why Apple couldn't just repair the systems (which is how it was explained to me):
I am from Charleston, SC. I happened to be in Atlanta helping my fiancee move in. Found that my MBP would not boot. Heard fans but no chime and no display. Took it to the Apple store in Atlanta, they attempted to run diagnostics on it, tried a couple of their different external hard drives, and then told me that the graphics card was bad but that it was covered under the NVIDIA replacement program. Attempted to start the process of having it replaced. I explained I was not from Atlanta and was going back to Charleston the next day. They wouldn't ship it back to a different store than it was shipped off from to the depot, which is fine, I can understand that. So they gave me a printout of a work authorization form and told me to present it to the store in Charleston.
So the next day I go to the store in Charleston upon my return, Charleston store barely looks at the form, pulls up my case in the computer, starts to run the same diagnostics, and tells me that my system cannot be covered under the program because they "couldn't get the same error that they needed to have it covered". Was very angry and confused because I was standing there with a work authorization from the other store there, and if I had been in the other store, they would have gone ahead and done the work.
After me calling back and forth the other store in Atlanta (They wouldnt do it, I had to be the middle man between the stores which I think is ridiculous) I finally found out that in fact all their external hard drives had been down in the Atlanta store that day that I had been there and they had printed that form out in the assumption that the Charleston store would run the proper diagnostics. The thing is they never told me that - they simply said it was covered and that the Charleston store will honor this piece of paper.
When I asked why it wouldn't be covered even though clearly all the symptoms matched a failed NVIDIA board, they said basically what this article said, with a further explantation of why Apple can't just cover it - that they don't pay for the replacement, that NVIDIA does, but that in order to get reimbursement from NVIDIA they HAVE to get a code returned first. Whether this is true or a wad of crap is anyone's guess.
They presented me the option of returning it to the repair depot for a flat fee of $300 with the off chance that when they look at it in the repair depot, that they will find the part defective and still cover it. I had a bricked system and not enough money to get a new one so I figured I was kind of stuck doing that.
In the end, they ended up finding the chip defective upon examining it in the depot. It was just very irritating and I felt kind of decieved and given the run-around.
I am from Charleston, SC. I happened to be in Atlanta helping my fiancee move in. Found that my MBP would not boot. Heard fans but no chime and no display. Took it to the Apple store in Atlanta, they attempted to run diagnostics on it, tried a couple of their different external hard drives, and then told me that the graphics card was bad but that it was covered under the NVIDIA replacement program. Attempted to start the process of having it replaced. I explained I was not from Atlanta and was going back to Charleston the next day. They wouldn't ship it back to a different store than it was shipped off from to the depot, which is fine, I can understand that. So they gave me a printout of a work authorization form and told me to present it to the store in Charleston.
So the next day I go to the store in Charleston upon my return, Charleston store barely looks at the form, pulls up my case in the computer, starts to run the same diagnostics, and tells me that my system cannot be covered under the program because they "couldn't get the same error that they needed to have it covered". Was very angry and confused because I was standing there with a work authorization from the other store there, and if I had been in the other store, they would have gone ahead and done the work.
After me calling back and forth the other store in Atlanta (They wouldnt do it, I had to be the middle man between the stores which I think is ridiculous) I finally found out that in fact all their external hard drives had been down in the Atlanta store that day that I had been there and they had printed that form out in the assumption that the Charleston store would run the proper diagnostics. The thing is they never told me that - they simply said it was covered and that the Charleston store will honor this piece of paper.
When I asked why it wouldn't be covered even though clearly all the symptoms matched a failed NVIDIA board, they said basically what this article said, with a further explantation of why Apple can't just cover it - that they don't pay for the replacement, that NVIDIA does, but that in order to get reimbursement from NVIDIA they HAVE to get a code returned first. Whether this is true or a wad of crap is anyone's guess.
They presented me the option of returning it to the repair depot for a flat fee of $300 with the off chance that when they look at it in the repair depot, that they will find the part defective and still cover it. I had a bricked system and not enough money to get a new one so I figured I was kind of stuck doing that.
In the end, they ended up finding the chip defective upon examining it in the depot. It was just very irritating and I felt kind of decieved and given the run-around.
IMO the blogger would have gotten and was properly offered a free repair by Apple Executive Relations. However at that point he was pissed off (Apple Stores tends to piss people off with their "Geniuses") already so he wanted a refund which Apple obviously won't give. So this got tossed to Apple's legal department which made it a bigger fiasco than it actually was.
I've had Apple comp things for me even when they were my fault. Why they would not help this guy with his MacBook Pro is beyond me. Seems like somebody failed to use proper judgement and others up the chain followed suit. Poor form on Apple's part -- very poor.
Agreed. I don't think this suit was silly at all. I can't imagine that if someone was in this same position that they'd consider it silly. Having a high-end laptop fail isn't exactly a happy day.
What's silly is that the cost to fix it was probably a bit less than the cost of fighting him in court. Now they have to cover his cost, a new laptop, and their own cost. You gotta remember though, it wasn't a completely free replacement. Nvidia covered the cost of the replacement board, but Apple supplied the labor to get it swapped/installed. Still though, that's gotta be pretty cheap on Apple's end of the table.
I wonder if the lawyers feel disappointed in themselves. I wonder what their bosses think? I can just imagine some guy in a suit yelling at these rookie lawyers, telling them they need to step their game up if they ever want to be involved in the real lawsuits like the ongoing ones with Samsung.
Good for him
I had a 15-inch 2008 Macbook Pro which I gave to my dad last spring. Although the GFX card was fine when it was in my hands, it happened to die soon after I gave it to my father.
I took it to the Genius Bar in London and they repaired it for free (no warranty or Apple Care, just an 8600M). A few days after it was repaired, it died again. I took it to the Genius Bar again and they fixed it for free. It's been working flawlessly since.
I guess this guy just had a bit of bad luck when the Genius asked him for $600 (it would've been about the same for me if I was asked to pay). But I believe he had every right to fight for his case. Well done. Wouldn't it have been easier to ask to talk to a manager or someone though? I'm sure there would've been no need for a lawyer.
I had a 15-inch 2008 Macbook Pro which I gave to my dad last spring. Although the GFX card was fine when it was in my hands, it happened to die soon after I gave it to my father.
I took it to the Genius Bar in London and they repaired it for free (no warranty or Apple Care, just an 8600M). A few days after it was repaired, it died again. I took it to the Genius Bar again and they fixed it for free. It's been working flawlessly since.
I guess this guy just had a bit of bad luck when the Genius asked him for $600 (it would've been about the same for me if I was asked to pay). But I believe he had every right to fight for his case. Well done. Wouldn't it have been easier to ask to talk to a manager or someone though? I'm sure there would've been no need for a lawyer.
Sometimes you need a beefy laptop. It's not unheard of and it's not an unrealistic need. There are these things called professionals and sometimes they need to travel to places where it's difficult to tug around a Mac Pro and a 27inch monitor. There's a market for highend laptops that rival desktops for a reason.