Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

sebalvarez

macrumors regular
Original poster
Apr 15, 2022
162
60
Whether it's on Mac or PC, Blu-ray authoring, something that used to be much easier, has become a royal pain in the butt.

For starters, Apple decided with absolutely no notice, to take out Blu-ray support from FCPX and Compressor. They didn't have a great authoring tool like the old DVD Studio, but you could rely on them to burn a fast Blu-ray with just your video, even a menu that wasn't customizable, but it was something. Well, I don't author Blu-rays all the time, so I don't know exactly when, but right now, it's gone. My old presets in Compressor still exist, but the destination that had the two presets for video and audio doesn't do anything. It's just there.

Likewise, FCPX doesn't have a Blu-ray destination anymore. I don't know when these companies are going to stop pushing the damn cloud to everyone as the best and only choice people have. I'm totally fine with the cloud, it's great and serves a purpose. But I want to keep some memories on reliable Blu-rays that I have with me and will have forever, even if my crappy Spectrum internet service goes down (not unusual). And I want to keep those memories in a very high bitrate, not the kind you put on the cloud.

And what about a home server? Well, drives can fail, files can get deleted, file systems can get corrupted. And when I tried to encode a video or two with Compressor for the Apple Devices 4K destination, then added to my TV app so I could play it with the Computers app in my Apple TV 4K, it wasn't smooth at all. It paused, it skipped, unless I would encode it at 10 Mbps, and I don't want that.

So for those out there who are suffering this constant disregard for what is a great format, have you found any authoring tools that don't cost an arm and a leg, and that just work? Preferably that you can do a menu in a photo app and import it. I was very close to shell out $100 in Roxio Toast Pro, but I have read the worst reviews about that thing, both current and for several years. So no freaking way.

So does anyone reading this know of a decent tool?
 
In my 20+ years as a videographer, I have never seen a display of arrogant ignorance as this. And it wouldn't be so pathetic if it was just misinformation from someone who just started getting into the world of video, or if it was an opinion, but there's not one single thing in what you wrote that is correct from the technical standpoint. Plus you salted your ignorance with the LOL emojis, which makes you look like, well, a certain celebrity/politician famous for making ignorant statements and having no clue what he's talking about.

So let's see:

😂…Never mind that the encoding and bitrate for a BD is dismal compared to even the worst video hosting sites and "the cloud", whatever that even means to you, has NO LIMITS on bitrate!
Probably 99% of the people reading this knows that you made an ass out of yourself with this statement since it's common knowledge that Blu-rays have far higher bitrate than anything from even the best streaming services, and 4K Blu-rays have even higher bitrates. A 1080p Blu-ray normally has a variable bitrate from 16 to 50 Mbps. On 4K Blu-rays I have seen bitrates as low as 35 Mbps and as high as 90 Mbps, and this is under the HEVC codec, which has a better compression algorithm than the codec used mostly on regular Blu-rays, which is h.264, which is great codec in itself.

Streaming services go from terrible to decent when it comes to bitrates, with Disney+ and Apple TV+ having the best picture quality, and it stands to reason that that is accomplished by using higher bitrates. However, it is also widely accepted that a movie on HD Blu-ray will look better than the same movie on 4K in a streaming service. This is because the encoding software and hardware for streaming services have to encode at far lower bitrates, so they have to smooth the picture with DNR and other techniques. Also, a great chunk of the color data has to be thrown out. That's why when I compare movies I own on Blu-ray to the streaming equivalent, even on my iTunes library, which is the same as any series or movie on Apple TV+, the Blu-ray has more vibrant colors and I can observe far more detail, especially on the film grain. Even if the movie on the streaming service is in 4K Dolby Vision and I only have it on Blu-ray, the Blu-ray always wins.

The cloud has no limits on bitrate if you encode a video at 100 Mbps and just upload it to your Google Drive. That doesn't mean it's going to play every frame smoothly. Most likely it won't, because even if you have the best internet connection with Fiber, it depends on a lot of factors that I won't go into here.

However, the streaming services do have their self imposed bitrate caps, for example Netflix will go only as high as 16 Mbps (rounding down, I don't remember the exact number), but only for their own titles in 4K Dolby Vision, for the rest is a horrible mixed bag that can be either decent, mediocre or downright terrible, even for some of their titles on HD, like the great movie "Anon" and some others. Movies in HD that are not produced by them can go as low as 1 Mbps in HEVC. When it first started, Netflix quality for HD titles wasn't terrible, just mediocre at 5.7 Mbps in h.264, but when HEVC came out, their engineers saw it had much better compression, and decided that they could compress the living hell of out everything. The result is that almost everything on Netflix looks like crap now.

I could keep going on and on, but the point here is, you are absolutely WRONG.

As if using the archaic, painfully outdated AVCHD codec was somehow a sign of quality? 😄

This also shows your ignorance to anyone who knows even a little bit about video codecs and formats. AVCHD is not a codec, it's a format that is very useful for consumer applications, and still better than almost everything on streaming services. AVCHD uses the h.264 codec to record video from consumer and prosumer camcorders onto a DVD-R or DVD-RL, or onto memory cards, usually SDHC cards, with some recording onto HDDs, although less common. It usually goes as high as 16 Mbps for the consumer cameras and around 25 Mbps for prosumer cameras. It was a great format, I have two camcorders that record great video onto SDHC cards.

So AVCHD is not a codec. Again, you are absolutely WRONG.

Burning to BD and especially DVD has been a massive downgrade for 10+ years in comparison.
In this phrase you made the only statement that could be partially true. And it's that usually (not always), burning to DVDs has been a massive downgrade in comparison. If you mean in comparison to the usual content in HD in streaming services, generally yes, although if you watch the worst encoded movies Netflix has, and if you were to have a high quality version of that movie on DVD, with a good 4K Blu-ray player that has decent upscaling, that movie on DVD would probably look better. But generally speaking, yes, the HD streaming version will look better, because DVD was crap and even worse than the Laserdisc format that it replaced. Laserdisc was 480i but uncompressed, DVD was 480i or 480p and used the MPEG 2 codec at usually 6 Mbps for the typical movies you could buy or rent at Blockbuster. It was a terrible codec that could only look good at 50 Mbps or 40 at best.

But as far as your statement that burning to BD has been a massive downgrade, well, you're just wrong, although given your obvious ignorance about video technology I can only assume that you burned BDs with some crappy consumer software like Cyberlink Power something or similar, the type of software that uses the worst codec implementations and introduces all kinds of digital artifacts.

Regardless, to say that burning to Blu-ray has been a massive downgrade for over ten years is just blatantly ignorant.

And good luck getting 4K on to one (without paying through the nose, assuming you can even still get the needed tech). But then that's probably too modern anyway?

It's true that it's difficult authoring a 4K Blu-ray, or even an HD Blu-ray, hence my post asking if anyone has come across a decent authoring tool. However, authoring a 4K Blu-ray is not impossible, as long as you have a Mac with Final Cut Pro and a Windows PC, because there are certain programs that are free but don't have a Mac version. And the Windows PC doesn't have to be new, in fact my PC is 12 years old. Ideally you also need to have a good burner in that PC. But I have authored 4K Blu-rays of my own videos that I shot myself, so I know that it's possible.

So I guess you have vinyls made of all your audio and drive a horse-drawn carriage to work?? 🤣

I do have a collection of about 300 vinyl records. As for smartass question, I drive a Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk.


Blurays? Or any optical medium… reliable??!
Yeah, again, maybe if you pay through the nose and go to inordinate, redonkculous lengths to keep them safe. Totally worth it!
Hilarious.

Absolutely. Verbatim still makes blank optical media of the highest quality, in fact, I never had a "coaster" with any Verbatim spindle, and I have used a lot of them. I was used to have coasters with Memorex, and I thought it was the normal, but once the first Memorex BD-Rs I bought in 2008 went bad in three months and I lost a couple of videos I had made, and switched to Verbatim, I realized that Memorex is garbage.

And I still have all kinds of Verbatim optical media burned since 2008 until now, and it all works. And I didn't go to any "redonkculous lengths to keep them safe". Of course I didn't use them as frisbees or put my fingers all over them like most people, or put them in boxes in the attic. They were all kept at room temperature.

So once again, you are WRONG. On everything you stated with your stupid emojis, trying to make me look stupid, you made so many ignorant remarks that you ended up looking like an ignorant jerk.

And yes, it was (fortunately) officially removed from everywhere. The age-old unreliable frameworks were just barely kept on life support for as long as possible and were never a part of AV Foundation. And seeing that Apple is a forward-thinking company and maintaining frameworks for (maybe) 164 people is not how they roll… 🤷🏼‍♂️

Apple is (mostly) a forward thinking company, at least on most things, save for the fact that you can't still find aptX or LDAC Bluetooth on any of their devices, and they didn't put a USB-C port on iPhones until Europe forced them to, but in most things, they are a great company. That's why I have a Mac Studio M1 Ultra that cost me a fortune, a Macbook Air M2 that is specced up to the highest it can go, an iPhone 14 Pro Max with 1 TB storage, and many more Apple products.

But I still think that it was an asinine move from them to take out Blu-ray support all of a sudden without even a dialog that would say something like "Beware that upgrading to FCP 10.4.8 will remove Blu-ray disc authoring support". At least I would've had the choice.

But this is the only part in your post that at least can be said it's a difference of opinion. But the rest is just sad.
 
Occasionally i feel guilty for having paid $300 or whatever it was for FCPX and not using it, so i reinstall it and then realize some extremely basic thing it can’t do and go back to grumbling through another premiere session. Lack of DVD/BR support is idiotic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: sebalvarez
Occasionally i feel guilty for having paid $300 or whatever it was for FCPX and not using it, so i reinstall it and then realize some extremely basic thing it can’t do and go back to grumbling through another premiere session. Lack of DVD/BR support is idiotic.
Honestly, if I only had two choices of NLE, FCP or Premiere, I will take FCP every day. Not only because Premiere is an outdated piece of garbage, but because Adobe is a despicable company with the morals of a sewage rat. Not only they spy on their customers, but they just revoked my Adobe CS6 serial number in retaliation for complaining in their forum that when I wiped my PC this time and reinstalled CS6 so I can have Encore to author Blu-rays. I called and told the guy, I have the boxes for CS4, CS5.5 and CS6 right here with me, I can take a photo and email it to you. Nope. I needed to have the invoice. From 2012!!!!!

Eventually I found the invoice the next day, and I'm going to file a very nice complaint with the FTC to add to their current pains, because they deserve it. They're just horrible people, charging an arm and a leg for software that is 30 years old and they keep slapping features on top of ancient code to get more subscribers.

But @ThunderSkunk, there is another great choice that is not FCP or Premiere. It's DaVinci Resolve, and it has a free version that has lots of features, not the typical free version of something that is crippled to death. Honestly, most professionals would never need the features of the paid version, and if they do, it's only $300, it's not like AVID, or anything like that.

So you can start saving money come your next automatic draft from Adobe by cancelling your CC subscription right now and downloading DaVinci Resolve from https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/davinciresolve for the great price of nothing. And even if you needed the Studio version, compare a one time payment of $300 for software you own against the around $800 a year for software you rent.

And if you worry about Illustrator, Photoshop, and perhaps InDesign, there's a suite that is far better than those three, and while they don't have a free version, you pay once per version. I bought it on sale in December 2022 and I couldn't be happier: https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/

Even better, it's on sale until August 15 for $83. No monthly draft, just $83 and it's yours. When they release the version 3 of their suite, you can keep using version 2. As everything else, eventually they will stop updating the older versions I guess, but how much can the upgrade be?

The world is full of great software that is not Adobe. The industry needs to get out of this vicious circle, but it won't until each of us cancels that damn CC subscription and adopt far better software.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Regulus67
Especially when you consider that it was there, but Apple got rid of it because... they felt like it?
Indeed. It's silly how even in 2007 Apple thought DVDs were obsolete.
I never used the DVD/Blu-ray authoring features on FCP, though. The rare cases I would burn a disc, I'd still use iDVD (before 2019) or Roxio Toast Pro. I've only authored one Blu-ray disc using Toast Pro back in 2018, and it came out pretty well. The video I had shot I edited on iMovie, but among exporting the HD video file I was able to load it into Toast Pro and add chapter markers and such.
 
In my 20+ years as a videographer, I have never seen a display of arrogant ignorance as this. And it wouldn't be so pathetic if it was just misinformation from someone who just started getting into the world of video, or if it was an opinion, but there's not one single thing in what you wrote that is correct from the technical standpoint. Plus you salted your ignorance with the LOL emojis, which makes you look like, well, a certain celebrity/politician famous for making ignorant statements and having no clue what he's talking about.

So let's see:


Probably 99% of the people reading this knows that you made an ass out of yourself with this statement since it's common knowledge that Blu-rays have far higher bitrate than anything from even the best streaming services, and 4K Blu-rays have even higher bitrates. A 1080p Blu-ray normally has a variable bitrate from 16 to 50 Mbps. On 4K Blu-rays I have seen bitrates as low as 35 Mbps and as high as 90 Mbps, and this is under the HEVC codec, which has a better compression algorithm than the codec used mostly on regular Blu-rays, which is h.264, which is great codec in itself.

Streaming services go from terrible to decent when it comes to bitrates, with Disney+ and Apple TV+ having the best picture quality, and it stands to reason that that is accomplished by using higher bitrates. However, it is also widely accepted that a movie on HD Blu-ray will look better than the same movie on 4K in a streaming service. This is because the encoding software and hardware for streaming services have to encode at far lower bitrates, so they have to smooth the picture with DNR and other techniques. Also, a great chunk of the color data has to be thrown out. That's why when I compare movies I own on Blu-ray to the streaming equivalent, even on my iTunes library, which is the same as any series or movie on Apple TV+, the Blu-ray has more vibrant colors and I can observe far more detail, especially on the film grain. Even if the movie on the streaming service is in 4K Dolby Vision and I only have it on Blu-ray, the Blu-ray always wins.

The cloud has no limits on bitrate if you encode a video at 100 Mbps and just upload it to your Google Drive. That doesn't mean it's going to play every frame smoothly. Most likely it won't, because even if you have the best internet connection with Fiber, it depends on a lot of factors that I won't go into here.

However, the streaming services do have their self imposed bitrate caps, for example Netflix will go only as high as 16 Mbps (rounding down, I don't remember the exact number), but only for their own titles in 4K Dolby Vision, for the rest is a horrible mixed bag that can be either decent, mediocre or downright terrible, even for some of their titles on HD, like the great movie "Anon" and some others. Movies in HD that are not produced by them can go as low as 1 Mbps in HEVC. When it first started, Netflix quality for HD titles wasn't terrible, just mediocre at 5.7 Mbps in h.264, but when HEVC came out, their engineers saw it had much better compression, and decided that they could compress the living hell of out everything. The result is that almost everything on Netflix looks like crap now.

I could keep going on and on, but the point here is, you are absolutely WRONG.



This also shows your ignorance to anyone who knows even a little bit about video codecs and formats. AVCHD is not a codec, it's a format that is very useful for consumer applications, and still better than almost everything on streaming services. AVCHD uses the h.264 codec to record video from consumer and prosumer camcorders onto a DVD-R or DVD-RL, or onto memory cards, usually SDHC cards, with some recording onto HDDs, although less common. It usually goes as high as 16 Mbps for the consumer cameras and around 25 Mbps for prosumer cameras. It was a great format, I have two camcorders that record great video onto SDHC cards.

So AVCHD is not a codec. Again, you are absolutely WRONG.


In this phrase you made the only statement that could be partially true. And it's that usually (not always), burning to DVDs has been a massive downgrade in comparison. If you mean in comparison to the usual content in HD in streaming services, generally yes, although if you watch the worst encoded movies Netflix has, and if you were to have a high quality version of that movie on DVD, with a good 4K Blu-ray player that has decent upscaling, that movie on DVD would probably look better. But generally speaking, yes, the HD streaming version will look better, because DVD was crap and even worse than the Laserdisc format that it replaced. Laserdisc was 480i but uncompressed, DVD was 480i or 480p and used the MPEG 2 codec at usually 6 Mbps for the typical movies you could buy or rent at Blockbuster. It was a terrible codec that could only look good at 50 Mbps or 40 at best.

But as far as your statement that burning to BD has been a massive downgrade, well, you're just wrong, although given your obvious ignorance about video technology I can only assume that you burned BDs with some crappy consumer software like Cyberlink Power something or similar, the type of software that uses the worst codec implementations and introduces all kinds of digital artifacts.

Regardless, to say that burning to Blu-ray has been a massive downgrade for over ten years is just blatantly ignorant.



It's true that it's difficult authoring a 4K Blu-ray, or even an HD Blu-ray, hence my post asking if anyone has come across a decent authoring tool. However, authoring a 4K Blu-ray is not impossible, as long as you have a Mac with Final Cut Pro and a Windows PC, because there are certain programs that are free but don't have a Mac version. And the Windows PC doesn't have to be new, in fact my PC is 12 years old. Ideally you also need to have a good burner in that PC. But I have authored 4K Blu-rays of my own videos that I shot myself, so I know that it's possible.



I do have a collection of about 300 vinyl records. As for smartass question, I drive a Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk.




Absolutely. Verbatim still makes blank optical media of the highest quality, in fact, I never had a "coaster" with any Verbatim spindle, and I have used a lot of them. I was used to have coasters with Memorex, and I thought it was the normal, but once the first Memorex BD-Rs I bought in 2008 went bad in three months and I lost a couple of videos I had made, and switched to Verbatim, I realized that Memorex is garbage.

And I still have all kinds of Verbatim optical media burned since 2008 until now, and it all works. And I didn't go to any "redonkculous lengths to keep them safe". Of course I didn't use them as frisbees or put my fingers all over them like most people, or put them in boxes in the attic. They were all kept at room temperature.

So once again, you are WRONG. On everything you stated with your stupid emojis, trying to make me look stupid, you made so many ignorant remarks that you ended up looking like an ignorant jerk.



Apple is (mostly) a forward thinking company, at least on most things, save for the fact that you can't still find aptX or LDAC Bluetooth on any of their devices, and they didn't put a USB-C port on iPhones until Europe forced them to, but in most things, they are a great company. That's why I have a Mac Studio M1 Ultra that cost me a fortune, a Macbook Air M2 that is specced up to the highest it can go, an iPhone 14 Pro Max with 1 TB storage, and many more Apple products.

But I still think that it was an asinine move from them to take out Blu-ray support all of a sudden without even a dialog that would say something like "Beware that upgrading to FCP 10.4.8 will remove Blu-ray disc authoring support". At least I would've had the choice.

But this is the only part in your post that at least can be said it's a difference of opinion. But the rest is just sad.

True.

Christopher Nolan and James Gunn have stated that the Blu-ray versions of their films are the definitive home versions in terms of picture quality.

We really and finally need Blu-ray support for authoring and playback. It's a format not going anywhere. There are many films not available on streaming platforms that can only be watched by purchasing Blu-ray Discs. There are steelbook editions with extra content and physical posters that can't be distributed online.

All they need to do is upgrade that external SuperDrive to Blu-ray and add update the software. It's not going to hurt the Apple TV store. They have their TV+ content to make money from.
 
And if you worry about Illustrator, Photoshop, and perhaps InDesign, there's a suite that is far better than those three, and while they don't have a free version, you pay once per version. I bought it on sale in December 2022 and I couldn't be happier: https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/
Affinity apps are toy software compared to Adobe. Be realistic. If you say they are better you're not a power user. Real power users aren't going to give up their subs for $50 apps.

We have already been through these circular arguments in the 90s and 2000s with competitors like Paint Shop Pro and Macromedia suite.
 
  • Like
Reactions: waloshin
Especially when you consider that it was there, but Apple got rid of it because... they felt like it?
Because they would need to keep it updated for future versions of FCP and Compressor, but it's still lame AF because it's not a whole program, it's just a module that they need to keep adapting code for.
 
All they need to do is upgrade that external SuperDrive to Blu-ray and add update the software.
I had to look this up, and I can't believe Apple has the nerve to sell, in 2024, 18 years after the Blu-ray format was released, to sell an optical unit that doesn't have Blu-ray. Unbelievable.
 
Affinity apps are toy software compared to Adobe. Be realistic. If you say they are better you're not a power user. Real power users aren't going to give up their subs for $50 apps.

We have already been through these circular arguments in the 90s and 2000s with competitors like Paint Shop Pro and Macromedia suite.
Toy software? Have you installed them? They have trials that you can install. I'm asking you this because I kind of remember Paint Shop Pro, and if you think that Affinity Photo is anything like that, you're way off. I've been using Photoshop and Illustrator since the 90's, and the Affinity suite is vastly superior, with so many more features, and the Photo app including features that are in Lightroom and not Photoshop.

Adobe programs are dinosaurs that people use because everybody uses them. They were great 20 years ago, maybe even 10, but now they are outdated junk, and expensive as hell.
 
The recordable Blu-ray disc might face an uncertain future. Even Sony will cut suppor.
Sony, Tom’s hardware
I have an external Blu-ray recorder for use with my macs. And would hate to see them disappear
I wouldn't worry too much. Sony is a company that sells overpriced and overvalued crap anyway. Luckily CMC Magnetics hasn't announced anything yet.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.