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Blu-ray for Mac Pro (view movies only under Bootcamp)

aponsin said:
Well then I guess you are experiencing motion blur big time with your screen. Because it's especially when the movies are running that I se a big difference. But I guess perception is everything...

Alex
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Yeah, that's true. I went through this with "the film look" vrs. "real video" were even though the specs of film are much lower people perceive it probably by association, and being higher grade or higher quality.

In my case it's not monitor based motion blur though. My panels are 5ms: http://au.lge.com/products/model/detail/itproducts_lcdmonitor_24inchwidescreen_l246whbn.jhtml


I added to my last post BTW, saying that I have tried your test but side by side on identical LCDs.
 
aponsin said:
I am sorry but I beg to differ... If you are telling me that you cannot see the improved quality between a DVD and a Bluray (even 720p), you either need to buy a pair a glasses or you need to change your screen because it's blurry ! :)

Even on my 24inch 1920x1200 screen I will notice the difference in a blink of an eye. I will grant you that the difference between 720p and 1080p is a lot more subtle but with DVD no way... it should be jumping at you :)

I would suggest you do an honest test if you have the ability to do so... watch a bluray on a nice 1080p screen and then watch a dvd right after it, on the same screen with the same conditions. I would bet you'll come back saying there is a difference...
You may not feel that difference is significative enough for you to invest in the system - and that's fine, everybody a different opinion - but there a major visual difference.

Alex
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Indeed, on my HDTV (1080p) the difference between Blu Ray and DVD is night and day. Anyone who can't immediately see a difference needs to get to an optometrist ASAP.
 
yg17 said:
Indeed, on my HDTV (1080p) the difference between Blu Ray and DVD is night and day. Anyone who can't immediately see a difference needs to get to an optometrist ASAP.
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Ya, sure, that's HDTV... I'm talking about a 24" LCD monitor.
 
yg17 said:
A 24" monitor likely has a higher resolution than a 1080p TV so it's even higher definition than a TV.
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Size plays a more important roll to perceived resolution when viewed at typical movie watching distances. So all that nice sharp rez you enjoy sitting 50cm ~ 60cm from your computer monitors is completely wasted for movies.
 
I can tell a difference between HD and SD video on both our HDTV in the basement and my computer monitors, no matter the size. HD video is always sharper and better defined, and has better sound.
 
Tesselator said:
Size plays a more important roll to perceived resolution when viewed at typical movie watching distances. So all that nice sharp rez you enjoy sitting 50cm ~ 60cm from your computer monitors is completely wasted for movies.
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Even more so when you try spanning the movie letterbox over two 30" displays.. God it looks grainy (o_O)
 
Tesselator said:
But that's what I'm saying. Here there's no difference at all. They look identical and I believe I can prove it mathematically too given the average viewing distance for watching movies. Paused there's quite a difference! While playing no, none. At least not on a 24" which is what I meant when I said that and which is probably the largest sized monitor most people have.

EDIT:
BTW, I've done your test but side by side on identical dual monitors. I also do a fair bit of video editing and have been in that industry for a long long time.


.
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I know I can see a big difference between DVD and Blu-ray. I have done several tests with identical TV's with the same players.
 
cmaier said:
Yeah, I know. But "hd video" doesn't automatically mean better sound. Heck, DVD and a lot of streaming 480p video supports 5.1 surround, too.
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compressed vs uncompressed

there is NO substitute for uncompressed audio on bluray
 
bruinsrme said:
compressed vs uncompressed

there is NO substitute for uncompressed audio on bluray
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yeah, but, again, the comment was about "hd video" not about blu-ray.

My point is that video resolution is independent of audio codec and resolution. Particularly with streaming video.
 
cmaier said:
yeah, but, again, the comment was about "hd video" not about blu-ray.

My point is that video resolution is independent of audio codec and resolution. Particularly with streaming video.
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hd video is not created equally.
Even though 720p and 1080i are considered hd, 1080p rivals them both.
 
I was referring specifically to HD video on a Blu-ray disc. Sorry for the confusion.
 
I've yet to see the person who couldn't tell the difference between HD (720p or 1080p) and SD as on a DVD on an actual HDTV - even a smaller (30") TV 4 meters away. Maybe at TVs that are only 19" large, but that's awfully small for an HDTV. Most people can see this, even if they can't articulate it well.

Also, I know some people with projectors. When you use the wall as a screen, the difference is even more obvious. Even if I watch on my 24" monitor from 3 meters away, I can tell if it's HD or not. I do edit video, though, so it may be more obvious to me.

Blu-ray is actually useful for storage - ever since I got my shipment of cheap BD-Rs, I've been offloading a bunch of old SD projects (2-5 per disc) onto them in a completely editable form (final cut project with all assets included). Definitely nicer than using old drives. Had too many fail on me to want to put up with it again.
 
Mackilroy said:
I can tell a difference between HD and SD video on both our HDTV in the basement and my computer monitors, no matter the size. HD video is always sharper and better defined, and has better sound.
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SD is generally 640x480, often interlaced, and usually 4:2:2 or worse. Yeah there's a noticeable difference when we get that small and polluted. I'm not talking about compressed mush. I mean nice high quality DVD as a minimum at 720×480 (NTSC) or 720×576 (PAL) at 29.97 or 25 FPS. professionally assembled from a 4:4:4 source. And any of the other MANY ratios up to about 720p. I mean those as compared to 1080p. Like these here below. I have this film in uncompressed 1080p and also in a multitude of other ratios, formats, and frame sizes. Here it is at 960x528 and when played side by side with it's 1080p versions I can't see any differences at all unless I move up closer than 1 meter to the 24" screen. Comfortable viewing distance for 24" screen films is about 3 meters. At that distance there's no observable differences - even if you have 20|20 vision.

And these are paused H264 frames compressed to stream rate of 1024 KB/s: :p

VLCSnapz_001.jpg


VLCSnapz_002.jpg


VLCSnapz_003.jpg
 
There's no discernible difference in the first two - much simpler images. The last one, though, looks blurry and pixelated - admittedly because it's a freeze frame of a motion shot. But that's almost a perfect example of what I'm talking about - it would look much clearer in 1080p. Even at 3 meters away. Regardless of what you're told of "comfortable viewing distances"...Also, artifacts present in the original shooting (digital noise, etc.) are more prominent when scaled up.
 
Tesselator said:
SD is generally 640x480, often interlaced, and usually 4:2:2 or worse. Yeah there's a noticeable difference when we get that small and polluted. I'm not talking about compressed mush. I mean nice high quality DVD as a minimum at 720×480 (NTSC) or 720×576 (PAL) at 29.97 or 25 FPS. professionally assembled from a 4:4:4 source. And any of the other MANY ratios up to about 720p. I mean those as compared to 1080p. Like these here below. I have this film in uncompressed 1080p and also in a multitude of other ratios, formats, and frame sizes. Here it is at 960x528 and when played side by side with it's 1080p versions I can't see any differences at all unless I move up closer than 1 meter to the 24" screen. Comfortable viewing distance for 24" screen films is about 3 meters. At that distance there's no observable differences - even if you have 20|20 vision.

And these are paused H264 frames compressed to stream rate of 1024 KB/s: :p

VLCSnapz_001.jpg


VLCSnapz_002.jpg


VLCSnapz_003.jpg
Click to expand...


There's a little bit of a problem with this comparison, IMO. First of all your using an animated movie as a frame of reference. Most animated movies, especially Disney movies, are extremely forgiving when it comes to resolution. I have the standard DVD and the bluray of Finding Nemo, for example, and even on my 65" Mitsubishi 1080P TV i can BARELY tell the difference.

Watch a live action movie, like SpiderMan 3 on bluray and standard dvd and there's a HUGE, undeniable difference. Not just on giant TVs. but even on my 24" LED Cinema Display. I have an LG Bluray drive in my MacPro along with Vista 64 and Arcsoft's TotalMedia 3. There's a very noticeable difference, especially watching a movie that was MASTERED in 1080P originally, like Spiderman 3. Golden Compass is another that comes to mind, it's absolutely stunning. Animated movies, while they do look amazing, are not going to show the true potential of how good bluray can look.

I don't have perfect eye sight either, I need reading glasses, and I can STILL see a big difference on a 24" screen and so can anyone that's ever been at my house looking at it.

There are some Blurays that look like crap, because the original source was crap. Crap in = crap out.
 
Hehehhe One guy thinks it's not fair cuz it's too sharp and the other guys thinks it looks blurry because he's not aware of what DOF is (or forgot to consider it).

I disagree with both (animation is my business) and I rest my case.



PS: The "crap in --> crap out" applies to DVD as well. ;)
 
I don't know about you, Tesselator, but even when I rip my DVDs to my hard drive (or just watch them through DVD Player) I can still tell a definite difference better than ten feet away. Sure, the non-HD one looks fine, but the HD version looks better.

And I am aware of DOF.
 
Tesselator said:
Hehehhe One guy thinks it's not fair cuz it's too sharp and the other guys thinks it looks blurry because he's not aware of what DOF is (or forgot to consider it).

I disagree with both (animation is my business) and I rest my case.



PS: The "crap in --> crap out" applies to DVD as well. ;)
Click to expand...

Who said it was too sharp? I"m looking at the posts above and don't see that.

I could say 'HDTV is my business and I rest my case', but I don't think my career is relevant? The fact that I have eyes is.
 
I will have to respectfully disagree here. I played a dvd on one 24" monitor with my mac and a blu ray on another 24" on my p3s. There's a big difference to me. Especially animated films like the Pixar stuff.



Tesselator said:
But that's what I'm saying. Here there's no difference at all. They look identical and I believe I can prove it mathematically too given the average viewing distance for watching movies. Paused there's quite a difference! While playing no, none. At least not on a 24" which is what I meant when I said that and which is probably the largest sized monitor most people have.

EDIT:
BTW, I've done your test but side by side on identical dual monitors. I also do a fair bit of video editing and have been in that industry for a long long time.


.
Click to expand...
 
Tesselator said:
Hehehhe One guy thinks it's not fair cuz it's too sharp and the other guys thinks it looks blurry because he's not aware of what DOF is (or forgot to consider it).

I disagree with both (animation is my business) and I rest my case.



PS: The "crap in --> crap out" applies to DVD as well. ;)
Click to expand...

I'm aware of DOF. I'm also aware of the fact that when you upscale something, blur turns into pixelation. Especially when printing things, as I once learned to my chagrin. It's visible on the image you posted. It's one of the reasons HD is nice - depth of field is properly preserved when you don't have to upscale. The image from Ratatouille is clearly pixelated: the background should look smoother, as should the top of Remy's head. Look for yourself.
 
why are people here so obsessed with blu-ray? Most people in the enthusiast pc segment of computer hardware couldn't care less about it even though it is readily available to them.
 
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